Pronouns in writing

[DeMont]

Good evening colleagues, I trust all are well?
I have a question that would be well served by some feedback from you. It used to be that pronouns in writing were fairly simple and straightforward a concept. However, as we move forward with the times this becomes more of a problematic area. It becomes especially important if you are going to write, or read, stories that involve some of the very modern ideas of self identification.

Indulge me if you will;
"Pronoun (noun)
1: plural pronouns : any of a small set of words (such as I, she, he, you, it, we, or they) in a language that are used as substitutes for nouns or noun phrases and whose referents are named or understood in the context
2: pronouns plural : the third person personal pronouns (such as he/him, she/her, and they/them) that a person goes by
What are your pronouns?
"I'm Jo, my pronouns are she/her." "I'm Jade, my pronouns are they/them."
… many people with nonbinary genders use "they" and "their" pronouns, although language and gender expression vary widely.

The most common pronouns are the personal pronouns, which refer to the person or people speaking or writing (first person), the person or people being spoken to (second person), or other people or things (third person). Like nouns, personal pronouns can function as either the subject of a verb or the object of a verb or preposition: "She likes him, but he loves her." Most of the personal pronouns have different subject and object forms:"

[Ref: Merriam Webster Dictionary]

Now imagine, if you would, you were writing a story based on Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein" hypothesis. Our errant doctor obtains a brain, the brain of a male. He sends his cronies out to get hold of a body, a fresh cadaver, from the local mortuary but they get disturbed and grab up a female corpse by mistake. Despite this the doctor decides to go for it anyway and, lo and behold, he succeeds. So far, so good. However when the creature wakes up it is to find that it is, essentially, a man trapped in a woman's body.

During the writing when, and how, does the pronoun change from he to she? Or, she to he? Or, does it?
Ponderingly, and with deepest respects,
D.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Now imagine, if you would, you were writing a story based on Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein" hypothesis. Our errant doctor obtains a brain, the brain of a male. He sends his cronies out to get hold of a body, a fresh cadaver, from the local mortuary but they get disturbed and grab up a female corpse by mistake. Despite this the doctor decides to go for it anyway and, lo and behold, he succeeds. So far, so good. However when the creature wakes up it is to find that it is, essentially, a man trapped in a woman's body.

During the writing when, and how, does the pronoun change from he to she? Or, she to he? Or, does it?
Ponderingly, and with deepest respects,
D.

I reckon it depends entirely on how you've set up your story, in terms of the sexual identities. If it's a male trapped in a woman's body, then your primary identity would be "he", but onlookers would see "her".

It's an interesting premise - not because of current gender usage (which can often be nothing more political correctness or identity badging), more so the underlying exploration of human sexuality.

I've got a series called Songs of Seduction - three separate stories where gender is a key element. One has an earth born woman meeting an alien - what gender is he/she/it? The second has a man morphing into the female of the species (man/mermaid), while the third has a transgender woman. All stories explore different elements of human sexuality.

 

[DeMont]

I reckon it depends entirely on how you've set up your story, in terms of the sexual identities. If it's a male trapped in a woman's body, then your primary identity would be "he", but onlookers would see "her".

It's an interesting premise - not because of current gender usage (which can often be nothing more political correctness or identity badging), more so the underlying exploration of human sexuality.

I've got a series called Songs of Seduction - three separate stories where gender is a key element. One has an earth born woman meeting an alien - what gender is he/she/it? The second has a man morphing into the female of the species (man/mermaid), while the third has a transgender woman. All stories explore different elements of human sexuality.

Thank you for dropping by @ElectricBlue
Could you write the whole story from the "He" point of perspective (i.e. man morphed into woman's form) without confusing the reader when "her" experiences become most nearly aimed at her female appearance in the story? Or, on the other hand, would it become more confused by the fact that the "womanly" experiences encountered would be quite outside of the "male mentality" to grasp and understand.

It would seem to me that it would be taking place in an entirely grey area of identification to which no established pronoun would neatly fit. A difficult situation for a writer to put themselves in, wouldn't you agree?
Deepest respects,
D.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Thank you for dropping by @ElectricBlue
Could you write the whole story from the "He" point of perspective (i.e. man morphed into woman's form) without confusing the reader when "her" experiences become most nearly aimed at her female appearance in the story? Or, on the other hand, would it become more confused by the fact that the "womanly" experiences encountered would be quite outside of the "male mentality" to grasp and understand.

It would seem to me that it would be taking place in an entirely grey area of identification to which no established pronoun would neatly fit. A difficult situation for a writer to put themselves in, wouldn't you agree?
Deepest respects,
D.

You'd also need to take into account point of view. First person would be he, with confusion from other protagonists.

Third person narration would need another approach, because such a narrator could see "both". The narrator's voice could provide some clarification, but without resorting to too much exposition.

 

[NuclearFairy]

I have a story that I'm writing in close third, there is a character in it that in the early parts at least many mistake for a boy. When the story is focused on her POV then the female pronouns are used. However, when the story is focused on someone who thinks she is a boy the male pronouns get used until/unless they come to the realization that she's a girl.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

A reanimated corpse is an it.

Didn't they always just refer to it as 'the monster'?

 

[Britva415]

During the writing when, and how, does the pronoun change from he to she? Or, she to he? Or, does it?

I'd ask them what their preferred pronouns are.

In full seriousness, what I'd recommend is to take into account the self-identification of the actual character. So it's up to you to figure out how this creature would identify, and then decide whether you want a story which honors that and provides alignment and validation for that identity from the rest of the characters, or if you want a story which invalidates it and creates conflict between them all over gender identity.

The story doesn't have to be about gender identity at all - unless you want it to. But if you don't, then all you have to do is decide, pick the pronouns, have everyone in the story simply accept it without reacting to it, taking it seriously, and then write the story without gender identity as any sort of distraction.

Or you could make gender identity be a theme in the story, in which case, again, all you have to do is decide, and then figure out what the conflicts are going to be, and write them.

Could you write the whole story from the "He" point of perspective (i.e. man morphed into woman's form) without confusing the reader when "her" experiences become most nearly aimed at her female appearance in the story? Or, on the other hand, would it become more confused by the fact that the "womanly" experiences encountered would be quite outside of the "male mentality" to grasp and understand.

It would seem to me that it would be taking place in an entirely grey area of identification to which no established pronoun would neatly fit. A difficult situation for a writer to put themselves in, wouldn't you agree?

No matter what you decide, your job is to make it not confusing to the reader.

Well, that is to say, this is clearly what you want. Of course one could write a story such that it is confusing to the reader, for any number of reasons, but, you don't want to.

So, maybe it is a difficult position for the writer - but it doesn't have to be. You really can just decide, and then do whatever is necessary to bring the reader along with that decision.

I believe that as long as you aren't confused, the reader won't be confused. You have to know what you're doing and why you're doing it. So, just decide.

 

[TheLobster]

Could you write the whole story from the "He" point of perspective (i.e. man morphed into woman's form) without confusing the reader when "her" experiences become most nearly aimed at her female appearance in the story?

Yes. There are many stories here that hinge upon similar scenarios and there are no issues when the narrator refers to MC as "he" because that's what he is 'on the inside,' while other characters recognize the exterior appearance and refer to him as "she", at least until corrected.

Granted, seems like in these kind of storylines it is much more popular to use 1P PoV which basically sidesteps the issue entirely.

 

[TheRedChamber]

If you are narrating in first person or close third from the perspective of the scientist, then you should use the pronoun they would use, and in the story you've outlined that might go from it to she to he.

If you're narrating from the perpective of the monster, you'll be using 'I' but can address the gender confusion in inner voive.

Omnicient is trickier but allows you to put a blanket declaration up early on if you wanted to - 'Confused as he was, he would always be a he'

 

[Cagivagurl]

Perhaps it might be (Him) Until the brain is placed into the female cadaver...
At that point, (they) becomes the politically correct definition...
That still depends on a lot of things. How The new Frankenstein see's themselves???
Not sure that is correct, just an opinion.

Cagivagurl

 

[StillStunned]

Didn't they always just refer to it as 'the monster'?

The "creature". That's the whole point: it's "created", the story is about Man playing God.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

You could put this discussion into the story, with the female-bodied "creature" demanding male pronouns, and nobody getting it right--and with Dr. Frankenstein insisting that he, the creator, gets to pick his creature's pronouns (and name, and behavior).

--Annie

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Heinlein's I Will Fear No Evil has your basic plot. Super rich old guy is on life support, offers a million dollars for a brain dead body, ends up in the body of his young female secretary.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Will_Fear_No_Evil

 

[Nynah]

In full seriousness, what I'd recommend is to take into account the self-identification of the actual character. So it's up to you to figure out how this creature would identify, and then decide whether you want a story which honors that and provides alignment and validation for that identity from the rest of the characters, or if you want a story which invalidates it and creates conflict between them all over gender identity.

The story doesn't have to be about gender identity at all - unless you want it to. But if you don't, then all you have to do is decide, pick the pronouns, have everyone in the story simply accept it without reacting to it, taking it seriously, and then write the story without gender identity as any sort of distraction.

Or you could make gender identity be a theme in the story, in which case, again, all you have to do is decide, and then figure out what the conflicts are going to be, and write them.

This is pretty much everything I would have said, so bravo to Britva for condensing it for me.

Our errant doctor obtains a brain, the brain of a male. He sends his cronies out to get hold of a body, a fresh cadaver, from the local mortuary but they get disturbed and grab up a female corpse by mistake. Despite this the doctor decides to go for it anyway and, lo and behold, he succeeds. So far, so good. However when the creature wakes up it is to find that it is, essentially, a man trapped in a woman's body.

One would assume that a doctor with the ability to not only transplant a brain into a cadaver but also be able to re-animate said cadaver would have the means to do some sort of gender reassignment if la creatura is in a position to request it?

 

[MillieDynamite]

In the book, Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus, the Creature's mind was a total blank. So, that raises the question: Is it nurture or nature that makes one male or female? If the doctor stitched said Creature out of body parts, as was done in the book and most film representations, might our magnificent Creation be a hodpodge of male and female already? Humm, what a story that might make.

 

[StillStunned]

In the book, Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus, the Creature's mind was a total blank. So, that raises the question: Is it nurture or nature that makes one male or female? If the doctor stitched said Creature out of body parts, as was done in the book and most film representations, might our magnificent Creation be a hodpodge of male and female already? Humm, what a story that might make.

It would be interesting to write it from the Creature's POV. Although I doubt anyone could write it better than Red Dwarf:

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Well, Dr. Fronk-un-steen used Abby's brain, so ....

 

[MillieDynamite]

Are you saying I put an abnormal brain into a seven and a half foot long, fifty-four-inch wide GORILLA?

Well, Dr. Fronk-un-steen used Abby's brain, so ....

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

That could don a tux and tophat and dance.