Problems with the school system

[pdx39]

I have to admit though you really sock it to those terrible corporations. I guess you would prefer they just take their stinky old factories and their high paying jobs to another state.

These corporations that receive reduced tax rates and fund our elections are getting the politicians to turn around and give them millions of dollars in corporate welfare the likes of which you and I will never see after financing their campaigns. This problem crosses party lines and corrupts the Democratic process. Suppose that you or I wrote a letter and sent it to politicians throughout the United States saying “Hi, I'm thinking about moving to your area, but I want to know what it is worth to you to have me come and support your local economy. Things that will encourage me to come include free land and exemption from paying property taxes. I also want the roads and utilities built and hooked up for free, reduced or no local taxes, relaxed regulations on your zoning and pollution laws, and while you're at it,why don't you throw in a freeway ramp or two to sweeten the deal.”

If one of us sent out a letter like that, We would never get a response but corporations do and once they move in, it's just the start. The politicians in Oregon's Washington County voted to hand out $200,000,000 in corporate welfare not to draw a corporation in, but to get the INTEL Corporation to agree not to move off the billion dollars of free land they already got for the next 5 years.

No wonder that there is not enough money for our school system. This money could be better spent on education and public works projects that would benefit everyone instead of enriching the portfolios of a small handful of already super rich CEOs.

 

[morninggirl5]

[rant]

A 'good' school with extremely qualified teachers is no more likely to turn out great achievers than a poor school with uncredentialed teachers is to turn out 'losers'. Children have already established their learning patterns before they ever set foot in a school.

[/rant]

Thank you so much for saying that my role as a teacher is meaningless. I guess I must be teaching for a paycheck like so many others believe.

 

[horny_giraffe]

I was a piss poor high school student.

Thank you so much for saying that my role as a teacher is meaningless. I guess I must be teaching for a paycheck like so many others believe.

While I think that perhaps some good therapy might have helped me--I was lost by the time I was in high school--I don't think there was a damm thing my parents or teachers could do about it. I certainly can't blame the English teacher who failed me for not doing my homework, now, can I?

The question is, how do you know when you've reached a students, morninggirl5? How do you make sense out a large class of students that changes all the time? What is your goal?

My Dad prefers to teach junior high students because he finds them easier to reach, emotionally--and thus more meaningful. "What I want to do," he says, "is to figure out how to win their hearts and minds."

 

[morninggirl5]

I'm a Kindergarten teacher, horny_giraffe. I know I've reached them when they come to school excited to be there.

I know I've reached them when they come to school and the first words out of their mouth is asking what we're doing in Math today.

I know I've reached them when they finish their work and pick up a book, point to a place on the carpet for a classmate and become "the teacher."

I know I've reached them when when the principal says she wants to congratulate the winner of teacher of the year and one of my students points at me. I'm not the teacher of the year for our school, but I sure felt like it at that moment.

I know I've reached my students when they get upset because we didn't have time for learning centers.

I know I've reached my students when they complain that they didn't get enough time to look at their library books before returning them.

I know I've reached my students when the best gift I gave them for Christmas was letting them take their book boxes home to keep.

We don't have large classes at my school. I have 11 in my class at the moment, I had two students move away the week after Thanksgiving. I want my students to like school, to want to learn, and to develop responsibility toward their schoolwork, and to not be afraid to ask questions and look for answers. There are three phrases that aren't allowed in my classroom - I can't, I don't know how, and I'm not your friend.

 

[Poverkhnost]

Morning,

That's great you're so dedicated to your students. It seems rarer and rarer when we read and hear about all the failures, but the fact is that students who really love learning get that from great teachers. I come from lines of teachers from my father's and mother's side of the family and know what dedicated teachers put in and get out of their jobs.

Parents are vital to the education of their children, but it's in vain without good teachers dedicated to the kids in their classes.

 

[morninggirl5]

Poverkhnost,

Thanks.


But the old adage about the squeaky wheel is definitely true. Along with a seemingly never ending propensity in our country to look for the worst in every situation.


mg

 

[horny_giraffe]

That sounds great. I imagine that young kids have their own challenges, though.

Someday, I'm going to have a meaningful job ... ...once I have an clue.

 

[Poverkhnost]

My grandfather uses the squeaky wheel adage all of the time. It does work. As for always looking for the worst, that would be alright if the same people ever offered up a reasonable solution.

 

[sch00lteacher]

Money is not the answer. You can throw all you want at education, it won't help, not really. Not unless you spend it in teacher pay and attract more teachers like Ms. Morninggirl5.

Even teachers can only do so much.

I lay the fault of the current state of education firmly in the lap of the parent. I am not singling out one or two races. I am not pick on one or two socioeconomic classes. Let us just say parents in general.

Children of all ages, K through 12, need a warm bed, and a full night's sleep. I am so upset when I hear young people discussing a television show that I know was on at midnight or later. Or I hear about them working un-Godly hours at Burger King... Parents are in charge of curfews and bedtimes. I am so upset that so many communities must set curfews to get young children off the street.

Children of all ages must be well fed. They must eat breakfast. It does not have to be a full blown production. But they must have something in their stomachs to get them started. Many of my students do not eat breakfast. If the parents do not have enough money the government is more than willing to help. How many parents are even out of bed when the child leaves for school?

Children of all ages must be taught and encouraged to get the most out of their education. Stop telling me I am giving too much homework, that it interferes with their job, or Sega playing. When was the last time you even asked your child if they had homework, let alone checked it. Teachers are there to give an education, but if the child is not willing to take it, there is little we can do. The parent must impart the importance of what we have to offer.

Children of all ages must be well read. Not just assignments from school, but for pleasure as well. Reading (to me) is the most important thing in the world. It sparks the imagination. It builds learning paths throughout the brain. When was the last time your child read a book? Does killing monsters on a video game teach anything? Does watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer teach anything? When was the last time YOU read a book to your child? When was the last time the whole family went to the library? When was the last time your child saw you reading a book?

I could go on and on but I am not writing a paper here.

Teachers try, we do our best. We catch hell when the students do not progress. It is our fault that education is in such trouble. We are an easy scapegoat.

I think Bush is full of crap. I do not support his education plan. He hasn't got a clue as to what the real problems are.

God bless Morning Girl. She gets them first. She helps lay the groundwork for that childs entire educational future. I know she does a wonderful job, I have read enough of her posts to state this without reservation.

When one of her students runs home excited about something they did, and wants to show mom or dad, is mom or dad there? Do they care? Or is it "Thats nice honey, now don't bother me." Is the wonderful picture or project displayed, is it bragged about? Or does the child toss it in the corner of their room, learning the lesson that it doesn't matter.

I am just getting started, but I am done. I can feel my blood pressure rising.

 

[Smilodon]

I hear you schoolteacher but that applies to the minority of parents. I have been a head of year (in the UK) and one of the best parts of the job was communicating with the parents. The majority were caring, loving people really concenred with their kids.

There were of course the gits too, and they used to upset me so much. One of my kids tried to commit suicide through neglect and cruelty from her mother. It makes you want to be violent doesn't it?

Hey, I complain about teaching but to be honest I don't think there is any better job - I love it.

Smiley

 

[sch00lteacher]

Smilodon...

I agree. The parents who need to read my post never would.

Most parents are doing their best. And their kids are doing well.

But you don't hear about them, just the ones who are having trouble or failing.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Thank you so much for saying that my role as a teacher is meaningless. I guess I must be teaching for a paycheck like so many others believe.

You made ths choice to be offended. I didn't mean that at all, and I think if you thought about it, and read my post you'd know that. I was saying pretty much what Teach said in his post, that the parents need to take responsibility.

Your post was great by the way, I agree you're reaching your students. But if their parents aren't doing their job at home, how many years of school is it going to take before those wonderful kidergartners don't give a shit?

 

[morninggirl5]

You made ths choice to be offended. I didn't mean that at all, and I think if you thought about it, and read my post you'd know that. I was saying pretty much what Teach said in his post, that the parents need to take responsibility.

Your post was great by the way, I agree you're reaching your students. But if their parents aren't doing their job at home, how many years of school is it going to take before those wonderful kidergartners don't give a shit?

Originally posted by pagancowgirl

Children have already established their learning patterns before they ever set foot in a school.

No matter how many times I read this statement it reads the same way. In your mind, what I do in my classroom doesn't matter. If the kids come from a less-than-wonderful home, then nothing I do is going to change their "learning patterns" and eventually they "don't give a shit".

In it's lowest form, that's what you're saying. Because I can't control the actions of students' parents, because I can't change the way they interact or don't interact with their children, my actions in the long run have no impact on my students.

I sincerely believe that parents are children's first and most important teacher. I've had several debates with colleagues about the increasing parental role that teachers are being forced to take. I don't see myself and my role in any way equal to that of a parent. But I do believe that I can make a difference. There are always going to be parents who aren't even remotely interested in their child's education. If I teach the right things and in the right way, I believe that I can instill enough pride in that child in their accomplishments and enough love for learning that they will be able to continue to succeed and do well in school.

I'm not naive. I play a very small part in each child's life, but that part can be important. That small part can change a child's learning patterns. If I didn't believe this, why bother to teach my class. Out of 11 students in my classroom, 2 parents check their child's daily folder each night. Out of 11 students, 3 students have parents who read to them even one night a week. Out of 11 students, 2 have parents who attended open-house, Curriculum night, or a PTA meeting. When you talk about students with parents who are not involved, you're talking about MY students. So, if I believed your statement were true, there'd really be no reason for me to continue to try and make a difference in their lives would there?

 

[Thumper]

Morninggirl

I hear you. I remember the good teachers I had. And the bad ones. I performed better when the teacher engaged me and held my interest. When they did not, I passed.

That said, I still believe that school is a "horse to water" type of environment. If a student isn't motivated at home to at least attain some level of proficiency, no amount of dedication or money is going to help.

It is up to the parents whether a child learns or not. A child will at least learn something even in a rotten school if he/she is motivated. Conversely, an unmotivated student with no support at home will fail even in an upscale private school.

You want to pay for your list through "progressive" income taxes and "progressive" property taxes. I think your word "progressive" means HIGHER. Let me ask a question. Exactly what percentage of a "super rich" person's income should they pay in taxes???? Currently, the top 5% of income earners are paying 44% of the national tax burden. (stats from my brand new copy of Turbo Tax 2001). The top 1% are paying 21% of the total tax burden. The bottom 31% of wage earners pay NO federal income taxes at all. (That was the bottom 24% until Bush's new tax bill was passed.)

I am not disputing these figures Texan. I do wonder why they are constantly thrown out by the Conservatives as evidence of the "unfairness" of the tax system. These figures are only half of the equation. The disparity may just be due to the fact that the top 1% are taking home substantially more of the pie than the bottom 31%.

The only other method of figuring taxes would be a head tax. Everybody pays the same. How fair would that be?

Just trying to level the statistical field with this.

Investing in stocks does not directly affect the economy. This idea has been tossed around numerous times since 9-11. Buying stocks is like buying a used car. It only affects the buyer and seller. Unless it is an IPO. The only real thing that boosts the economy is consumption. (The US economy is 70% consumption based)

I read about the new education bill. It actually was a marvel of bipartisanship in action. Let it take effect and see what they can do with it. The feds set the bar and let the locals do what it takes to meet the standard.


"Have you seen Junior's grades...."

Got it bad
Got it bad
Got it bad...

I'm hot for teacher!



Siddown...Waldo!

 

[Moridin187]

I hear you schoolteacher but that applies to the minority of parents.

Maybe it's just the area I'm from Smilodon, or maybe it's what you consider the necessary level of parental support.. Most of the parents of my schoolmates throughout my years in the public education system were semi-supportive, if their kid did something incredible they'd care. But it wasn't consistant, and a lot of them tried to buy their kids off by offering them money for good grades. It saddens me, teachers Can reach their students, but with students from less than perfect homes it can be difficult, especially when the students are in their junior high school and high school years. One incredible teacher managed to reach me, and became more of a parent than either of my biological parents were. But she's a rarity...

Also, the current state of the local school disgusts me, they hired a new principal a few years ago and she's been gradually making the school a more and more awful environment. Supportive teachers are being fired or threatened with it for being a "crutch" for their students, and for not following the curriculum to the letter. Students who are having a lot of trouble are being advised to drop out. Teachers are caring less and less about their students, simply sticking to what they're told to teach and not doing much more to help. *sigh* It sucks, it sucks a lot, I feel sorry for the freshmen who are coming into that school, never knowing the kind of wonderful learning institution it used to be.

 

[sch00lteacher]

I want to bump this up.

This thread got off to a great start, there are some really well thought out arguments here (not just mine). It flared out quickly and is now on the way to the bottom. While threads about some really stupid crap rise to the top.

Wanna know one of the real problems with education in America today. We don't give a shit about it as long as it works.

It only works because some of us struggle like hell to make it work. Morninggirl5 teaches kindergarten!

Before I was hired full time I did a lot of substituting. I did one day in a kindergarten classroom. Because the teacher who was out had taught my son. There is no way in hell I would ever do that again. Those kids were... kids. That is all, just kids, and they drove me nuts. How does Morninggirl5 do it day after day? God bless her.

So read it, comment on it. Think about it. Then go back to war over the trivial crap.