Pro vs Con ~ Can Tougher Laws Slow Underage Drinking?
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Weird Harold
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Education, NOT legislation
Prohibition didn't work in the 20's, it isn't working now for the youth of america.
Educating children about the dangers of drinking and how to be responsible works far better than telling teenagers "thou shalt not." (That didn't work for God, and it has never worked for governments either.)
Prohibition didn't work in the 20's, it isn't working now for the youth of america.
Educating children about the dangers of drinking and how to be responsible works far better than telling teenagers "thou shalt not." (That didn't work for God, and it has never worked for governments either.)
Oliver Clozoff
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Education and legislation are not mutually exclusive ways of trying to curb alcohol use. I agree that education ought to be our primary focus, but there's still a very important place for stricter enforcement of drinking laws.
The argument concerning the failure of prohibition is a straw man. All it shows is that legislation alone is inadequate for controlling the problems created by alcohol use. There's plenty of data showing that drinking laws do limit use. Just because they don't completely eliminate drinking doesn't mean that they're ineffective or superfluous.
I think that we need to shift the balance of these laws to the supply-side rather than that demand-side, though. We can more or less always expect adolescents to seek out alcohol, but we can certainly make it harder for them to get it by cracking down on those who sell to minors.
You're absolutely right though, Harold, that a continuing attitude of expecting laws to do the whole job is misguided. Education is the most important aspect.
The argument concerning the failure of prohibition is a straw man. All it shows is that legislation alone is inadequate for controlling the problems created by alcohol use. There's plenty of data showing that drinking laws do limit use. Just because they don't completely eliminate drinking doesn't mean that they're ineffective or superfluous.
I think that we need to shift the balance of these laws to the supply-side rather than that demand-side, though. We can more or less always expect adolescents to seek out alcohol, but we can certainly make it harder for them to get it by cracking down on those who sell to minors.
You're absolutely right though, Harold, that a continuing attitude of expecting laws to do the whole job is misguided. Education is the most important aspect.
Lasz
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I think all these laws are what cause the abuse of alchol to begin with. When I was 20 when there was alchol in the apartment, I always felt it had to be drank right there and then. After a few weeks into my ripe old age of 21 this attitude quickly went away. I have many friends who are in the 18-23 age range. When they are 18 it seems that alchol is the greates thing, when they are 23 it seems like nothing. The whole illigality of alchol is what causes the abuse of it. I personaly think the drinking age should be 19. My underage friends tend to go to the hospital for alchol abuse, I have yet to meet someone who is of age on my campus that goes to the hospital for this reason.
Stronger laws just make it harder to obtain alchol, but once it is accuried it is abused even more then it was if it were easy to get.
Laz
Stronger laws just make it harder to obtain alchol, but once it is accuried it is abused even more then it was if it were easy to get.
Laz
SINthysist
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We need looser laws...
Give natural selection a chance to work here folks
!
Give natural selection a chance to work here folks
!
Calamity Jane
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Education seems to me to be the most important aspect of curbing underage drinking. I never had a problem purchasing alcohol, or finding someone else to purchase it for me. I would assume that it's been just as easy for others.
The problem with laws is that they rely on people to enforce them. And arresting teenagers for purchasing alcohol or stores for selling it to minors, just isn't a priority.
Teaching your kids that while some things may be enjoyable, they shouldn't be taken to excess, seems like a pretty basic parenting responsibility to me. This doesn't just apply to alcohol either.
More and more, I think parents expect the government to legislate things that they themselves should be more aware of and more willing to take responsibility for.
Yes, I drank at home when I was a kid. From the age of 15 on, I was welcome to any of the alcohol in the house that I wanted, and occasionally, my step dad would go buy me something that wasn't currently in the house. I never drank to excess until I was older and out on my own, throwing parties and trying to keep up with other people.
The problem with laws is that they rely on people to enforce them. And arresting teenagers for purchasing alcohol or stores for selling it to minors, just isn't a priority.
Teaching your kids that while some things may be enjoyable, they shouldn't be taken to excess, seems like a pretty basic parenting responsibility to me. This doesn't just apply to alcohol either.
More and more, I think parents expect the government to legislate things that they themselves should be more aware of and more willing to take responsibility for.
Yes, I drank at home when I was a kid. From the age of 15 on, I was welcome to any of the alcohol in the house that I wanted, and occasionally, my step dad would go buy me something that wasn't currently in the house. I never drank to excess until I was older and out on my own, throwing parties and trying to keep up with other people.
Weird Harold
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Oliver Clozoff said:
Adolescents seek out what they don't have access to. If alcohol is around, then it's "no big thing," Especially if it isn't "Forbidden Fruit."
I sometimes think education should be applied to our lawmakers even more than to our children.
I still haven't found anyone who can explain to me how the solution to too much crime is to create more crimes by passing more laws. Education, then Enforcement, and only as an extreme last resort, Legislation.
If we enforced the existing laws (prior to raising the age from 18 to 21) there would never have been any need to raise the legal drinking age.
As long as there has been a "legal drinking age" in this country, it has been illegal to sell or provide alcohol to underage drinkers. In fact, in many jurisdictions, there are no "underage drinkers," only "underage buyers."
Educate the children so that the laws are irrelevant.
Enforce the laws that already exist, so they mean something to those they're aimed at.
Reform legislation to some rational form that is enforceable and reasonable.
SINthysist
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Then we should legalize booze
and make education illegal!
and make education illegal!
bored1
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Re: Education, NOT legislation
I think the above says it all.............As for more education, its a noble idea,but I doubt very effective..........I work in a business where there are many young people in entry level positions.............They all smoke......All of them! average age around 21/22 These young people have been told about the evils of smoking all their lives,Yet they still smoke...........Education hasnt helped them.........Weird Harold said:
More to the point, if people, kids included, want to binge drink I'm not going to try and stop them. None of my business quite frankly.
WH is bang on. One thing we've learned from the war on drugs and prohibition is that attacking the supply side of an issue like this is not effective.
WH is bang on. One thing we've learned from the war on drugs and prohibition is that attacking the supply side of an issue like this is not effective.
claude_moveml
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I did a lot of binge drinking starting at age 15, no problem getting served in my local beer shop - a couple of litres of cheap strong cider can get you pissed for a whole day when you're small. Was fun for a while, then got bored of it really, and moved on to cannabis - a much better vibe, until I got too into it and went a bit mad from smoking too much.
The strange thing was that I didn't get into cannabis or other illegal drugs earlier - if you're under 14 it's way easier to get hold of them than alcohol, just contact the right people at school or whatever. Alcohol is so damn bulky. It seems the more compact a drug is the less legal it is.
I say - legalize everything with legal age limit 16, throw in voting and jury service at that age too, then there is a rite of passage from being a child to becoming an adult, with all the associated responsibilites that that brings. Drug abuse is a social problem not a criminal one.
The strange thing was that I didn't get into cannabis or other illegal drugs earlier - if you're under 14 it's way easier to get hold of them than alcohol, just contact the right people at school or whatever. Alcohol is so damn bulky. It seems the more compact a drug is the less legal it is.
I say - legalize everything with legal age limit 16, throw in voting and jury service at that age too, then there is a rite of passage from being a child to becoming an adult, with all the associated responsibilites that that brings. Drug abuse is a social problem not a criminal one.
Laws of prohibition don't work; they never have, they never will and they are virtually unenforceable.
Making something illegal only increases its allure for some.
The creation of stupid laws like this produce effects of a negative nature.
First, they draw law enforcement resources away from crime investigation by attempts to enforce these moral or more appropriately, political crimes.
Second, the denigrate the respect for the law in general of rational, intelligent people who understand the irrationality and futility of these laws which are nothing more than social engineering by people ill equipped for it and who have no legitimacy to do so.
Third, they create a new class of criminal, the political criminal, although no proponent of these laws is ever honest enough to admit the truth of that. They will tell you, "It's for your own good" as if you are some wayward child and they are the parent.
It's little more than some politico establishing his little fiefdom by asserting his authority to dictate choices to his subjects, i. e., the banana republic political mentality.
Making something illegal only increases its allure for some.
The creation of stupid laws like this produce effects of a negative nature.
First, they draw law enforcement resources away from crime investigation by attempts to enforce these moral or more appropriately, political crimes.
Second, the denigrate the respect for the law in general of rational, intelligent people who understand the irrationality and futility of these laws which are nothing more than social engineering by people ill equipped for it and who have no legitimacy to do so.
Third, they create a new class of criminal, the political criminal, although no proponent of these laws is ever honest enough to admit the truth of that. They will tell you, "It's for your own good" as if you are some wayward child and they are the parent.
It's little more than some politico establishing his little fiefdom by asserting his authority to dictate choices to his subjects, i. e., the banana republic political mentality.
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