Privilege, then and now

[MillieDynamite]

I didn't say you were Tilan, I said you post in the same manner as he. I was implying your posts are petty quips to insult others.

If you have me confused with Tilan, then it's only fair I confuse you for someone else.

 

[SimonDoom]

Oh, I doubt that's the case. For all his faults, Tilan at least had panache.

Is that a pastry? So if MrHereWriting brings donuts, are we all good?

 

[Comshaw]

Is that a pastry? So if MrHereWriting brings donuts, are we all good?

Not unless they are old-fashioned glazed cake doughnuts. I maybe unsofistimacated but I do know my doughnuts.

Comshaw

 

[MillieDynamite]

Well, being blazed and cake seems a bit of a misnomer. But who am I to know? I was only a PI, not a cop.

Not unless they are old-fashioned glazed cake doughnuts. I maybe unsofistimacated but I do know my doughnuts.

Comshaw

 

[Comshaw]

Well, being blazed and cake seems a bit of a misnomer. But who am I to know? I was only a PI, not a cop.

It is a mistake to contest a fat old man's knowledge of his doughnuts! How do think I got to the rotundness I am now? Yes! doughnuts! And I get many. My son's a cop but doesn't like doughnuts so he hands them off to me. Secondhand cop doughnuts are delicious!

Comshaw

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'll yield to your superior knowledge, as I can't afford to eat them anyway. I didn't snack in those days, and I have writer's ass now, so I really can't afford to add to that spread.

It is a mistake to contest a fat old man's knowledge of his doughnuts! How do think I got to the rotundness I am now? Yes! doughnuts! And I get many. My son's a cop but doesn't like doughnuts so he hands them off to me. Secondhand cop doughnuts are delicious!

Comshaw

 

[SimonDoom]

It is a mistake to contest a fat old man's knowledge of his doughnuts! How do think I got to the rotundness I am now? Yes! doughnuts! And I get many. My son's a cop but doesn't like doughnuts so he hands them off to me. Secondhand cop doughnuts are delicious!

Comshaw

All the cops in the donut shop say, "Way-oh, Way-oh."

 

[MillieDynamite]

80s music, love it.

All the cops in the donut shop say, "Way-oh, Way-oh."

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

I wear Drakkar Noir. (I get a sense you're one of those privilege whiners who ignores those who have it worse than you.)

NoTalentHack acted like a child throwing a tantrum, so I let him know he wasn't worth my time . Once he matures, maybe I'll pay attention to him. No promises.

You must be a man of few posts to have been on the lit forum for so long and only have managed 79 of them.

 

[MrHereWriting]

I didn't say you were Tilan, I said you post in the same manner as he. I was implying your posts are petty quips to insult others.

I answer in kind.

 

[ChloeTzang]

"Privilege" back in the old days....Young oyster shuckers, Josie, six years old, Bertha, six years old, Sophie, ten years old, Port Royal in 1912. Work began at 4am for these children. People think they have it tough now, but mostly all this talk of privilege is just entitled first world bullshit here in North America. Mostly. I won't say there aren't exceptions, but a lot of what we call privilege is just making excuses for being lazy, for cultural failures amongst some cultural groups, and not making use of the opportunities that are there. Like free elementary and high school education.

 

[MillieDynamite]

The majority of the quality of the "free education" in America is determined by the amount of funding provided to that individual school. If you live in the wrong area, the school you attend is underfunded and overcrowded. If you live in the right area, it isn't. Or if it is, your parents are privileged enough to send you to a private school. Free education isn't free; it costs money, and those who determine where that money goes are only human and only too happy to look out for their own. Yes, things have improved, but don't that there is any parity between the poor and the rich in this country based on a free education system.

"Privilege" back in the old days....Young oyster shuckers, Josie, six years old, Bertha, six years old, Sophie, ten years old, Port Royal in 1912. Work began at 4am for these children. People think they have it tough now, but mostly all this talk of privilege is just entitled first world bullshit here in North America. Mostly. I won't say there aren't exceptions, but a lot of what we call privilege is just making excuses for being lazy, for cultural failures amongst some cultural groups, and not making use of the opportunities that are there. Like free elementary and high school education.

View attachment 2278000

 

[MillieDynamite]

Actually, you are quite unkind.

I answer in kind.

 

[MrHereWriting]

Actually, you are quite unkind.

My opinion of you isn't high either.

 

[bumpercars]

I have a really hard time with the concept of "white privilege". I know it exists and in some locals is very prevalent and the way of things. But I do not believe it is a universal thing. I do not believe I've ever been a recipient of it.

This is a common feeling - people look at the hardship they went through and wonder, if I have privilege, why were things so rough?

Here are a couple of questions that sometimes make it more visible. How many moments in your life would have been easier if you'd been Black? And how many would have been harder?

Like, it sounds like you grew up pretty poor in the 50s and 60s, which probably wasn't easy. If you'd been Black, though, you would have had all of the same hardships, plus a lot of widespread and legally enforced racism. Privilege doesn't mean things weren't hard for you; it means your ethnicity didn't make those things harder.

 

[MrHereWriting]

This is a common feeling - people look at the hardship they went through and wonder, if I have privilege, why were things so rough?

Here are a couple of questions that sometimes make it more visible. How many moments in your life would have been easier if you'd been Black? And how many would have been harder?

Like, it sounds like you grew up pretty poor in the 50s and 60s, which probably wasn't easy. If you'd been Black, though, you would have had all of the same hardships, plus a lot of widespread and legally enforced racism. Privilege doesn't mean things weren't hard for you; it means your ethnicity didn't make those things harder.

If he had been black, wouldn't he have lived the same life, or are you telling him he has to imagine his life being harder than it was because he was black?

If we are getting into fiction here, could he be Jaden Smith?

 

[NoTalentHack]

If he had been black, wouldn't he have lived the same life, or are you telling him he has to imagine his life being harder than it was because he was black?

If we are getting into fiction here, could he be Jaden Smith?

You continue to enthrall with your ability to say stupid things as though they were wise.

Privilege is intersectional. If you had read my earlier posts—instead of clutching your pearls at their tone—you would know I got very lucky with my background. Not super-rich and Hollywood royalty lucky, though. Your question is dumb because it says “well, would you trade being a (presumably) middle class, anonymous, middle-aged white person for being ultra-wealthy, famous, connected, young, and black?” Which… duh. Of course most of us would.

Let’s ask a more sensible hypothetical instead: how much money would someone have to pay you for your race to be changed fo black, irrevocably? Nothing else changes; your friends remember you from when you were white, etc. You have all the same experiences, contacts, wealth, etc. But no one thinks it’s exceptional, either; you aren’t going to get a book deal out of it or anything. You just have to go through the rest of your life as a black man, with all the attendant prejudices arrayed against you.

So, how much is your whiteness worth to you? I don’t expect MrHereWriting to answer honestly; he’s a troll and a “must-win” and an “I’m only asking questions” if I ever saw one. But for the on-the-fence folks following along, ask that of yourself. How much would someone have to pay you to be black in America? In Canada? The UK? Can you, with any honesty, say “I’d be happier, or even as happy, being black rather than white?” And if you can’t, if even the idea makes you a little uncomfortable, what does that say about the existence of privilege?

 

[bumpercars]

If he had been black, wouldn't he have lived the same life, or are you telling him he has to imagine his life being harder than it was because he was black?

If he'd been Black, he would have experienced racism that he didn't experience as a white person. That racism would have made his life harder, even if all other things about his life were kept the same.

 

[MrHereWriting]

If he'd been Black, he would have experienced racism that he didn't experience as a white person. That racism would have made his life harder, even if all other things about his life were kept the same.

No matter what, you need him to suffer more in this fantasy life you want him to imagine living.

You can "prove" anything with those parameters.

You continue to enthrall with your ability to say stupid things as though they were wise.

So, how much is your whiteness worth to you? I don’t expect MrHereWriting to answer honestly; he’s a troll and a “must-win” and an “I’m only asking questions” if I ever saw one.

You're like a child. You're so afraid of other people's answers that you have to throw out every scenario you can to discredit them before they can answer you. Are you one of those people who thinks that by yelling the loudest you can win any discussion?

You need to mature more and apologize for your small behavior before I acknowledge you again.

 

[bumpercars]

No matter what, you need him to suffer more in this fantasy life you want him to imagine living.

You can "prove" anything with those parameters.

What happens when you run this thought experiment - if you imagine how your life would have been different if you had always been a different ethnicity? Do you think nothing would change, or do you think racism would have made your life harder?

Thought experiments by their nature can't provide objective evidence, but they can still help us understand things.

 

[lavendersilk]

Darius Simpson and Scout Bostley - Lost Voices

 

[MrHereWriting]

What happens when you run this thought experiment - if you imagine how your life would have been different if you had always been a different ethnicity? Do you think nothing would change, or do you think racism would have made your life harder?

Thought experiments by their nature can't provide objective evidence, but they can still help us understand things.

As in any fantasy life, "or thought experiment," I have to follow the rules of the experiment.

If you want this fantasy life to be better, it will be better. If you want it to be worse, it would be worse. The same, the same.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I have no opinion of you a'tall. We haven't had many exchanges, and what we have had, have been unpleasant. But really, what I've seen of you doesn't instill any desire to know more.

I hope you have a pleasant day.

My opinion of you isn't high either.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Ah, the intellectual honesty of the right.
L: "Here are statistics."
R: "Well, here's my anecdote!"
L: "Here's historical context."
R: "I wasn't alive then, and also, here are poor white people from that time, which means... something!"
L: "Here are people who can attest to the way being underprivileged has affected them."
R: "They're whiners! Show me a so-called 'privileged' person who can attest to it."
L: "Here are people who can do that."
R: "Show me ones who are willing to actually put there money where their mouth is!"
L: "Here's a list."
R: "You didn't say it nicely."
L: "Here's other people saying it nicely."
R: "Yeah, well, well, I guess you wouldn't want to be Jaden Smith then! So there!"
L: "Here's why that's a dumb response, as well as a disingenuous one; what about this, which is a more insightful question instead?"
R: "I don't want to talk about fantasyland, I just want real-life proof."
L: "I gave you statistics already."
R: "... I am smart! Why can't you see that?"
R2: "Yeah, you are smart! Way to own the libs! Why are they so fragile?"


It really is like playing chess with pigeons. Have fun flipping over the board and shitting on it, guys.

 

[MrHereWriting]

I have no opinion of you a'tall. We haven't had many exchanges, and what we have had, have been unpleasant. But really, what I've seen of you doesn't instill any desire to know more.

I hope you have a pleasant day.

That's what I meant: I can't have a high opinion of you because I don't remember you. Based on our latest interactions, I can't say it would ever be high, since you approached me in an unpleasant manner that you appear to enjoy.

If you leave me alone, you'll have no reason to interact with me.

I hope your day is pleasant as well.