Pride

[Shadowsdream]

More food for conversation..join Me if you will...

Please keep in mind that I generally post from the 24/7 aspect not all will necessarily apply for occassional play partners.

Domination and submission begins with the magic between two people that becomes love and caring. It takes two to breed a successful relationship. Pride must be on both sides of submission and Domination and all of the crap I have seen posted on the web about submissives and slaves being held in contempt is just that...crap! An interesting role play but if it were the long term reality of a lifestyle the submissive would hold no value to the Domme and She would soon release him/her and move on to the next experience.So think carefully. Is fantasy really better than reality?

 

[Hecate]

My reality

There is pride and pride, but I think we were here more after the concept of self-esteem and respect from the Dominant towards the submissive and vice versa than little nittiy-gritty picking of personal pride. That said I shall in the following concentrate on the "interaction based" pride.


In my reality I see the one/s I chose to be my submissives as treasures, gems, high valued prices if you will.

Would I choose something - someone unworthy?
Would I dedicate my time and energy to something - someone I detest, dislike, don't care for, hold in contempt?

Certainly not - why would I do that even for a fraction of a second?

Now - if I by simply my choice declare that the person is special, is wonderful, is enjoyable to have around, why would I not want them to be proud of that?

Same goes for the other side. My submissives decide to grace me with the special gift of their submission - they could possibly have gone to thousands of other Dominants, but they did not, they wanted by their own free decision be specifically with me... so why should I not be feeling proud?


Addin into the whole equation now that there are deep caring feelings involved, then I think it is easy enough to see, that as opposed to a doormat or a puppet on a string I rather have my adored and adoring submissive with an intact sense of self-esteem and knowledge about his/her place in my scale of values -

-and yes, with pride to be exactly where - with who - what he/she is for me!


If I hadn't work that needs to be done I could go on endlessly on that tangent, addressing the many many self-esteem/lack of pride and value issues that submissives seem to be confronted with - so consider yourself lucky to escape another Hecate poisonous rant about those who do indeed try to keep their subs low and doubting!

 

[Merelan]

See that post above me?

I felt pride reading that. For she meant me when she said precious gem, and treasure. I am her's. Her sub, but so much more then mere words.
To mention her even, to simply think of her, and all she means to me, make me fill with pride.
She chose me, and I her. It was mutual, though at the time we didn't know it.
When someone asks me about my anklet, I must look like an idiot as I explain what it means to me. For my smile broadens and my eyes shine.
When I read something she has written, or for any reason am reminded of her, I flush and feel special, loved, cherished.

For she is proud of me, and I her. She has the strength of steel love I needed, and I the soft submission to sooth her. I am not less for being submissive, but more. More of all the wonderful, crazy good things that make me merelan.

Alas, I wish I had a tenth of her power in words. To make you all see how I feel.

 

[Shadowsdream]

to the wonderful Mistress and submissive who so eloquently, calmly and realistically...gave Me a description of mutual pride that brought a smile of recognition to My lips and the touch of a tear to My eye.

Hecate and Merelan, you personify class, depth and the magic that dreams are made of.

Thank you

 

[Desdemona]

I believe that having pride in one's self is integral to good self esteem. I also believe that we have to love and value ourselves in order to be seen as worthy by others.

I am currently alone. I have no Dominant partner to remind me that I am worthy. Without an innate sense of my own self worth, or pride, it might be easy to feel diminished by being single at this time. I know women who rush from partner to partner out of fear of being alone. They seem to feel diminished by being alone and don't take the time to ensure that the fit between them and a new parter is good.

My sense of pride allows me to feel secure in the knowledge that when the time is right I will find my new Dominant or I will be found. I have no need to rush or to settle for less than what I need or deserve. Pride is a good thing.

 

[Quint]

Are you referring specifically to the thread I started on shame, which hasn't yet but probably could touch on the subject of contempt? I may be reading too much into your opening post, Shadowsdream, but I'm going to respond as if this were indirectly addressing me and that thread. The basic insights are the same anyway.

I view shame as a tool. It is a means to an end; if it were the end itself, it would be indication that there is something psychologically wrong with the submissive. I have a great deal of pride in myself as a human and as a submissive. I know that T feels the same about me. I know that his respect for me doesn't lessen, no matter what lengths of degradation he puts me through; in effect, we are tricking my mind and forcing my body to do things that it is uncomfortable with for the pleasure of the fear and shame that those actions and words create. It is essentially a game. Were this all we had in our relationship, I would be abused and I'd have been gone by now. But it's a mutual decision based on the exploration of emotions that I think could, in their perverted fashion, arouse me (let alone him!).

I never lose sight of the marvelous person I am. I just have the ability to let other, more immediate things push that knowledge to the background. And when it is over, I have that much more pride in myself for being able to take something that felt so humiliating or uncomfortable at the time. And he feels the same.

Again, I apologize for jumping into the spotlight when it might not have even been intended for me, but the opinion is valid even if the basic assumption isn't. o)

 

[Shadowsdream]

Quint

I don't post threads to poke at other threads...If I begin a thread based on something that piqued a particular interest from another WORD in a thread that indicates it might like to have a deeper conversation...I may pick that up.

That said...

(I never lose sight of the marvelous person I am. I just have the ability to let other, more immediate things push that knowledge to the background. And when it is over, I have that much more pride in myself for being able to take something that felt so humiliating or uncomfortable at the time. And he feels the same. )

I think you display a beautiful pride and an understanding of pride.

Thinking I better get My Domme butt over to the shame thread tonight!

Thank you for joining the conversation Quint

 

[Shadowsdream]

Des

(My sense of pride allows me to feel secure in the knowledge that when the time is right I will find my new Dominant or I will be found. I have no need to rush or to settle for less than what I need or deserve. Pride is a good thing.)

It pleases Me to see you view the journey with anticipation rather than desperation. The simple understanding that rushing could easily mean settling for less than you deserve shows a healthy pride.

Thank you for joining in the conversation as well

 

[~*sunkyssed_kym*~]

More food for conversation..join Me if you will...

Please keep in mind that I generally post from the 24/7 aspect not all will necessarily apply for occassional play partners.

Domination and submission begins with the magic between two people that becomes love and caring. It takes two to breed a successful relationship. Pride must be on both sides of submission and Domination

I'm stepping up to your buffet, Shadowsdream.
Though not in a 24/7 relationship, MY-Sir and I have pride in ourselves and one another. HE holds me in the highest regard and I respect HIM for all that HE is.
We have brought our feelings/desires out into the daylight and discussed them,examined our motives, and come to the conclusion that what we have is real and pure. Never has it crossed MY-Sir's mind to reduce me in any way that would be humiliating. HE doesn't play at being a Dom, HE truly IS MY DOM.
And I give HIM the respect that HE is due.

Just adding my .02 cents.

-k-

 

[Quint]

It occurs to me that I didn't directly answer your question, Shadowsdream. ("Is the fantasy better than the reality?") I think it's a pretty unanimous NO from this group. I see all sorts of self-respect and pride in our sexuality. How could a relationship based on anything BUT pride be fulfilling in the least? I don't even know a comparable example, perhaps something like a prostitute who doesn't think she deserves any better than the cheap selling of her body.

Even if someone believes that kinky sexuality is something to be ashamed of, they probably don't take that shame as far as their entire relationship. By this I mean that someone could blush when they admit they want a certain sexual act done to them. But they could still feel pride in their status as this person's partner and in the relationship they are building together. A Dom/me could laugh scornfully at their submissive to elicit a tear-filled whimper--but that doesn't mean they don't value that submissive once this particular scene is over.

If this ever changes and the fantasy of contempt (which I think is the best antonym for pride) becomes reality, there can be no relationship. Definitely not better.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

Domination and submission begins with the magic between two people that becomes love and caring. It takes two to breed a successful relationship. Pride must be on both sides of submission and Domination and all of the crap I have seen posted on the web about submissives and slaves being held in contempt is just that...crap! An interesting role play but if it were the long term reality of a lifestyle the submissive would hold no value to the Domme and She would soon release him/her and move on to the next experience.So think carefully. Is fantasy really better than reality?

Shadows, I will agree that the things posted on the web about submissives and slaves being held in contempt is pure and utter crap. I find that my Master has great respect for my thoughts and my feelings (not a new thing with our lifestyle change either). If he didn't have respect for me, or pride in me, then our relationship on any terms would not be. I also have great pride in him, not only as Master but in his accomplishments as a whole.

Is fantasy better than reality? No this fantasy is definately NOT better in my opinion. That is not to say that all fantasies are not better than reality. I know there are some fantasy things that if brought into reality would never live up to what I've thought of them in my mind. I do think that fantasy is an important part of a relationship too.

JMHO

dixi

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: My reality

In my reality I see the one/s I chose to be my submissives as treasures, gems, high valued prices if you will.

Would I choose something - someone unworthy?
Would I dedicate my time and energy to something - someone I detest, dislike, don't care for, hold in contempt?

Certainly not - why would I do that even for a fraction of a second?

Same goes for the other side. My submissives decide to grace me with the special gift of their submission - they could possibly have gone to thousands of other Dominants, but they did not, they wanted by their own free decision be specifically with me... so why should I not be feeling proud?


Addin into the whole equation now that there are deep caring feelings involved, then I think it is easy enough to see, that as opposed to a doormat or a puppet on a string I rather have my adored and adoring submissive with an intact sense of self-esteem and knowledge about his/her place in my scale of values

Absolutely beautiful text. Any sub would love to read that about his/herself.

But let's for a moment discuss vanity versus pride. I believe there is a big difference between those two words. And then there is pride and humility......

Once again, so much to think about Shadows. I think I will reflect before I type anymore.

Rose

 

[Desdemona]

Maybe this is an oversimplification, but IMO, vanity is excessive pride without humility as a balancing agent. A person can be vain about appearance, possesions or accomplishments. Perhaps in the case of vanity, self esteem is based upon those things rather than an innate sense of self worth. In my mind, vanity isn't particularly healthy.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Maybe this is an oversimplification, but IMO, vanity is excessive pride without humility as a balancing agent.

There is nothing wrong with simplifying things. This sentence makes a great deal of sense to me. And saying exactly what you want to say without writing a novella is an admirable style.

That is one of the reasons I love Shadows threads. She doesnt write an essay to begin a dialoge.

Well done to you both.

And again, I agree with your post, Des.

Rose

 

[Desdemona]

Shadows and Rose, I'd like to thank you both. You've made me think with this conversation and I've clarified some things for myself.

 

[A Desert Rose]

dont thank me hon

I am a total dolt when it comes to this. I failed and am trying to figure out how not to do that again.

You have been as much help to me as anyone here. I read all your posts. And there are so many adjectives to use for Shadows threads- she is an amazing mentor for me.

Thanks again too,
Rose

 

[Desdemona]

Re: dont thank me hon

I am a total dolt when it comes to this. I failed and am trying to figure out how not to do that again.
,
Rose

Rose, we all fail from time to time. You are no more a dolt than I am. My last relationship ended suddenly and a month later, I still don't have a clue what happened. I have no idea what (if anything) I did wrong or how to avoid the mistake again because he hasn't decided to tell me. No, I don't think it is all my fault, but surely, I have some blame to carry.

 

[WillowPuss]

More food for conversation..join Me if you will...

Please keep in mind that I generally post from the 24/7 aspect not all will necessarily apply for occassional play partners.

Domination and submission begins with the magic between two people that becomes love and caring. It takes two to breed a successful relationship. Pride must be on both sides of submission and Domination and all of the crap I have seen posted on the web about submissives and slaves being held in contempt is just that...crap! An interesting role play but if it were the long term reality of a lifestyle the submissive would hold no value to the Domme and She would soon release him/her and move on to the next experience.So think carefully. Is fantasy really better than reality?

Another good question.
Again - am going to post as if it is a brand new thread ... and from my perspective.


Taking the question - "Is fantasy really better than reality" - just on face value ... the answer must be a resounding 'NO' .

Ok - I have the feeling that a little more is required here ...

In our relationship Robuck treasures me as an intelligent, articulate, thoughtful and caring individual. He has often stated that He would not wish to be in any long term relationship with anyone who was not able to hold intelligent conversation. He views me as his equal in almost everything. We each have our own strengths to bring to the relationship - and we each have our own weaknesses that the other can help with.

(hmm off topic! *smack!*)

Pride - Robuck has taught me that it is perfectly acceptable to take pride in a job well done - be that a craft thing, a well written story, a completed animation, a well presented meal ... anything.
I am now, thanks to him, able to bring pride in myself to our relationship. This makes my gift of submission to him all the more valuable.

As I become 'more valuable' Robuck is able to take even more pride in me ... and my self esteem rises and so I see my gift as being of even more value .... and so it goes on. It is a self feeding circle, as it were.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Re: Pride

Pride - Robuck has taught me that it is perfectly acceptable to take pride in a job well done - be that a craft thing, a well written story, a completed animation, a well presented meal ... anything.
I am now, thanks to him, able to bring pride in myself to our relationship. This makes my gift of submission to him all the more valuable.

As I become 'more valuable' Robuck is able to take even more pride in me ... and my self esteem rises and so I see my gift as being of even more value .... and so it goes on. It is a self feeding circle, as it were.

As one become 'more valuable' to *oneself*, it follows that self esteem rises in proportion and one's gift is more valuable. Once one see herself as valuable, everyone around sees that too, especially ones Dom/me.

Sorry for taking it upon myself to edit that, but it sure hits home for me Willow.

Rose

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Re: dont thank me hon

Rose, we all fail from time to time. You are no more a dolt than I am. My last relationship ended suddenly and a month later, I still don't have a clue what happened. I have no idea what (if anything) I did wrong or how to avoid the mistake again because he hasn't decided to tell me. No, I don't think it is all my fault, but surely, I have some blame to carry.

I have the advantage of more time than you, Des. My relationship has been over for several months and I have had time to reflect back on many things. I have also learned a great deal in the last 2 months of lurking around this board and reading.

I know that we both failed because neither of us knew what we were really doing. He didn't want a sub, he wanted a whore and a puppet. I never realized that I had rights in the relationship- that I had limits I could demand be met.

He never saw my submission as a gift. It was his right to have it, in his mind. I never realized that this was abuse. And frankly, I don't think he did either. He is/was not a mean man by nature. He simply had no idea what to do with the power I gave over to him.

But the feelings of hurt and loss are over now. At this point, I am looking to grow and learn and be taught. And you are too. It does get better.

Sheeeesh I am sorry to prattle on like this,
Rose

 

[Shadowsdream]

Sitting back and ~~~smiling~~~ at you all as each of you impress Me with the depth of your thoughts in this subject.

Enjoying and appreciating each word you share with Me as I continue to learn from each of you.

 

[A Desert Rose]

and I am sitting at your feet

Sitting back and ~~~smiling~~~ at you all as each of you impress Me with the depth of your thoughts in this subject.

Enjoying and appreciating each word you share with Me as I continue to learn from each of you.

absorbing as much knowledge as I possibly can hold, in this little brain of mine. I am going to say this one fluffy thing- I am so glad to have found you in this forum. And I do see you as a valuable mentor for me.

Thank you,
Rose

 

[Shadowsdream]

thank you rose

For the respect you have allowed Me to earn from you as you have begun to look deeply inside of yourself.

 

[Desdemona]

Shadows, I read every word you post and I always learn. Your threads make me think about issues in ways that cause me to clarify and solidify my thoughts/opinions.

Rose, darlin' yes it does get better and I know that 99% of the time. Unfortunately, last night was a 1% sorta night. I'm better now.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Thank you des

Each time I see you journey inside I know the pain you will sift through will give you more answers than you could have ever dreamt of.

It is what is within already that is an eye opener for new thoughts and perspective.

Keep growing from the inside and each new understanding brings you closer to being ready for your magic moments.