Presented the opportunity....

[clitoral]

Actually I know exactly what the clinical term "psycopathic" encompasses. Which is why I used it in relation to what you had posted.

If you know exactly what the clinical term "psychopathic" encompasses, then according to the DSM-IV-tr, explain how my comments demonstrate psychotic thinking.

 

[MisterSir]

If you know exactly what the clinical term "psychopathic" encompasses, then according to the DSM-IV-tr, explain how my comments demonstrate psychotic thinking.

Boyo, you come from 4chan and admit to having a folder full of videos featuring women getting raped. I don't know shit about the minutae of psychology, but you're clearly an utter nutjob. Pick your own term.

 

[clitoral]

This just completely isn't true.

The victim may not have a hit-counter on the website, but the person who publishes the pictures or video probably does. They feed off the feedback they get from the people who watch it; that feedback validates them, makes them feel what they have done is acceptable or even daring. And because it validates what they have done, it encourages them to repeat the behaviour.

So no - viewing the video does not directly hurt the victim in the video. But it does hurt perpetrator's next victim, because without the encouragement the perpetrator gets through that feedback there might not be a 'next victim'.

I'm not pretending this area is simple or black and white. I have said before and I will say again that in my opinion there's absolutely no way you can tell for certain watching a video or looking at a picture whether what looks like rape is real or consenting. And some rape scenes certainly can be hot, for me. And as I've argued elsewhere there are wide grey areas around the margins of consent.

But ultimately we all know what we mean by rape: it's sex that one of the parties (almost always the party being penetrated) does not consent to at any level. On the good old fashioned test of 'do as you would be done by' that's clearly wrong. So being complicit in it is wrong. End of story.

I find the theory that watching the video contributes to future crimes implausible at best. The distributors of the vids are not necessarily the ones commiting the crimes, and in fact, are usually not. They are usually distributed by other rape afficianados, not put up on some porn website like regular porn, with a hit counter. The easiest place to find such videos is on p2p software, and there is no hit counter there. If you were a rapist and you put your video out there on p2p, you would have no idea whether 1 person saw it, or a billion people saw it, or if no one saw it at all.
Now, I also must address the theory that rapists do what they do because they feel validated by people watching vids. There are a few different theories out there about what rape is actually about. Some people say that "rape isn't about sex, it's about violence." Feminists taught us that "rape is about a man using his penis as a weapon." I have polled the fans of rape on other discussion boards like 4chan, 7chan, 12chan, and others and most of them agree on two reasons that they get off on rape, the first being the control over another human being to the point that they will even perform sexually, the other being the simple sexual gratification with someone that would otherwise be "out of their league" so they wouldn't otherwise stand a chance of getting what they want. Notice that nowhere in there did anyone say "well everyone liked the video of my last rape, so now I have to do it again" or "I wasn't going to do it again, but since the last vid was so popular, I might as well."
I can't speak for rapists since I have never raped anyone, only fantasized about it. But I really have a harder time believing that the kind of rapists that are crazy enough to record their crimes on video and then circulate it, do it for the validation when they don't know how many people see their vids. If it were all about the viewing audience to them, the rapists would probably talk to the camera, look at the camera, and really be more of a performance for the camera. Instead they are not like that. Real rape vids are very different and that is what sets them apart from the crappy rape porn that you can find on the internet.
Do you think that the crappy rape porn on the internet now is responsible for real rapes?

 

[minx1]

I find the theory that watching the video contributes to future crimes implausible at best. The distributors of the vids are not necessarily the ones commiting the crimes, and in fact, are usually not. They are usually distributed by other rape afficianados, not put up on some porn website like regular porn, with a hit counter. The easiest place to find such videos is on p2p software, and there is no hit counter there. If you were a rapist and you put your video out there on p2p, you would have no idea whether 1 person saw it, or a billion people saw it, or if no one saw it at all.
Now, I also must address the theory that rapists do what they do because they feel validated by people watching vids. There are a few different theories out there about what rape is actually about. Some people say that "rape isn't about sex, it's about violence." Feminists taught us that "rape is about a man using his penis as a weapon." I have polled the fans of rape on other discussion boards like 4chan, 7chan, 12chan, and others and most of them agree on two reasons that they get off on rape, the first being the control over another human being to the point that they will even perform sexually, the other being the simple sexual gratification with someone that would otherwise be "out of their league" so they wouldn't otherwise stand a chance of getting what they want. Notice that nowhere in there did anyone say "well everyone liked the video of my last rape, so now I have to do it again" or "I wasn't going to do it again, but since the last vid was so popular, I might as well."
I can't speak for rapists since I have never raped anyone, only fantasized about it. But I really have a harder time believing that the kind of rapists that are crazy enough to record their crimes on video and then circulate it, do it for the validation when they don't know how many people see their vids. If it were all about the viewing audience to them, the rapists would probably talk to the camera, look at the camera, and really be more of a performance for the camera. Instead they are not like that. Real rape vids are very different and that is what sets them apart from the crappy rape porn that you can find on the internet.
Do you think that the crappy rape porn on the internet now is responsible for real rapes?

I think you are very misguided.

You actually believe your argument. That the choices you make are without consequences. You believe that they are completely harmless.

I find your mindset quite disturbing in all honesty.

But regards to your points.

If its not for validation and its not because there is demand and its not a trophy to show others....why would videos like that exist?
What is their raison détre?

You said you polled the ''fans'' of real rape...not the rapists, so what would they know about what drives someone to rape and film it?

If you are big enough to make the choices you do about watching real rape and big enough to be out and proud as a fan of real rape, perhaps its time you took responsibility for the part some people, me included believe you may play in the supply and demand cycle of these types of films.

And yes no shit sherlock, real rape is very different to the ''crappy rape porn'', because its real.

Its real people that are being assaulted and violated and hurt, but I guess thats the appeal to someone like you isnt it.

Honestly, get a grip and listen to yourself.

Perhaps you should consider seeking some help.

 

[clitoral]

Thanks for your response.

Actually from what I read, I am not sure my reaction is the ''normal'' one.

I do however think you are wrong when you say that you arent contributing to the hurt. To me thats just a get out. An excuse.

You are sharing in somebody's violation. Something immensely personal and shattering. You have read peoples accounts here of how rape has impacted them, yet you are choosing to watch the moments someones life is destroyed, just for sexual gratification.

I am sorry if that sounds harsh or overly emotional, but that is exactly how I see it.

Its the choice thing again. And faced with that choice, you choose to watch. You seek them out and ultimately you and everyone else who makes that choice helps to increase the demand for those kind of videos.

I find it a naive excuse to say you are doing no harm.

Your responses are the best! I HAVE to respond to some of these comments.
What is a get out? What is an excuse? Excuse means justification. If something has justification, then it is justified, or at least, justifiable. My preferences are at least, justifiable, as long as I never actually commit a crime.
I understand that rape shatters the victims life. I understand that it hurts, that the victim feels real pain, they cry real tears, and that they are left feeling like a victim for the rest of their lives. And yet, that's exactly what makes my dick hard. Wierd, I know. But saying that because I saw a vid of what happened means that I took part of it is rediculous. Just about everyone in the world saw the vids of the planes crashing into the world trade center buildings on 9/11. Does that mean that you "took part" in that crime? People that watch Faces of Death, look at Rotten.com or other similar gore are not part of the events that got recorded. To put me into the event because I watched a video is nonsense. I took no part in the events that shattered the victims lives. The guys that did it, did it without feedback or validation from me because they don't know me and they don't know that I watched their vids. I never demanded more vids, and I never increased "demand" for more of the same. The crimes were not commited for my sexual gratification either. They were commited for the rapists sexual gratification, if anyones. My sexual gratification is secondary at best.
Now, let's talk about "sexual gratification." We all get off on different things in different ways. Some people get off on looking through people's windows with telescopes, some people get off on eating shit or pissing in girl's mouths, some people get off on the simple act of touching another person. I spent some time working in a hospital and there were "hypersexuals" there that would shake your hand and cum in their pants before you could let go because that touch alone is enough for their "sexual gratification." I shook such a person's hand because I was unaware of their intentions. Did I get raped because they were sexually gratified? Are they horrible people? Are they criminal even? Did their sexual gratification hurt me?
Sexual gratification is a very wierd and complex thing. Also, don't forget to take into account that for some people, mostly nuns and monks, sexual gratification is meaningless and worthless; and for other people, sexual gratification is a huge thing and some people would end a million lives if it would satisfy their sexual needs. So when you say "just for sexual gratification" bare in mind that minimizing it with that word "just" does not mean that it is in reality, a little thing. If you want to get into relativism, I can, but it's like me saying that "you're just one person, you should be willing to give up your life to save two other people's lives." Or, to the same effect, "what is just one life worth when compared to a million people?" Well to that one person whose life we're talking about, it's a pretty big deal!
So bare in mind that the value placed on sexual gratification is relative. It may not be worth whatever secondary effect on the victim you can perceive I may have had, to you. But to me it may be worth it. Especially since I don't believe in the secondary part anyway. No harm on my part, no foul on my part.

 

[minx1]

Your responses are the best! I HAVE to respond to some of these comments.
What is a get out? What is an excuse? Excuse means justification. If something has justification, then it is justified, or at least, justifiable. My preferences are at least, justifiable, as long as I never actually commit a crime.
I understand that rape shatters the victims life. I understand that it hurts, that the victim feels real pain, they cry real tears, and that they are left feeling like a victim for the rest of their lives. And yet, that's exactly what makes my dick hard. Wierd, I know. But saying that because I saw a vid of what happened means that I took part of it is rediculous. Just about everyone in the world saw the vids of the planes crashing into the world trade center buildings on 9/11. Does that mean that you "took part" in that crime? People that watch Faces of Death, look at Rotten.com or other similar gore are not part of the events that got recorded. To put me into the event because I watched a video is nonsense. I took no part in the events that shattered the victims lives. The guys that did it, did it without feedback or validation from me because they don't know me and they don't know that I watched their vids. I never demanded more vids, and I never increased "demand" for more of the same. The crimes were not commited for my sexual gratification either. They were commited for the rapists sexual gratification, if anyones. My sexual gratification is secondary at best.
Now, let's talk about "sexual gratification." We all get off on different things in different ways. Some people get off on looking through people's windows with telescopes, some people get off on eating shit or pissing in girl's mouths, some people get off on the simple act of touching another person. I spent some time working in a hospital and there were "hypersexuals" there that would shake your hand and cum in their pants before you could let go because that touch alone is enough for their "sexual gratification." I shook such a person's hand because I was unaware of their intentions. Did I get raped because they were sexually gratified? Are they horrible people? Are they criminal even? Did their sexual gratification hurt me?
Sexual gratification is a very wierd and complex thing. Also, don't forget to take into account that for some people, mostly nuns and monks, sexual gratification is meaningless and worthless; and for other people, sexual gratification is a huge thing and some people would end a million lives if it would satisfy their sexual needs. So when you say "just for sexual gratification" bare in mind that minimizing it with that word "just" does not mean that it is in reality, a little thing. If you want to get into relativism, I can, but it's like me saying that "you're just one person, you should be willing to give up your life to save two other people's lives." Or, to the same effect, "what is just one life worth when compared to a million people?" Well to that one person whose life we're talking about, it's a pretty big deal!
So bare in mind that the value placed on sexual gratification is relative. It may not be worth whatever secondary effect on the victim you can perceive I may have had, to you. But to me it may be worth it. Especially since I don't believe in the secondary part anyway. No harm on my part, no foul on my part.

Ok I will answer this briefly and in as polite a way as I can muster.

I havent read your post in detail. All I needed to do was to scan it in order to see the usual excuses and to read the last paragraph.

I am not debating the complexities of sexual gratification I am questioning your reasoning and your choices.

You come across as completely misguided to me. You are convinced that what you do and how you think is acceptable and can be justified.
Well to me it isnt and it can't and I am done humouring you and taking time to respond.

Perhaps you are just exceptionally selfish and dont care where your pleasure is derived from. Or maybe as others here have decided you have a real problem and I guess that their labelling would have something to do with your apparent lack of empathy.

But look, in all honesty I dont care what the reason is and what drives you or ''makes your dick hard''. And I am even less interested in your excuses and cop outs.
In my opinion your mindset is disturbed and you need to seek some help.

If others want to engage in debate with you, thats up to them but I am ending my discussion with you right here.

 

[ammre]

no.

I like it sometimes when the women in porn look uninterested or unhappy with how the events turn out but that causes me a lot of guilt after I orgasm. (To find that kind of porn you generally need to look for gonzo porn with girls who don't speak English, you can tell they are reluctant but they are doing it just for the money, which makes me feel horrible yet turned on) I'm into a little bit of force, but more persuasion or reluctance/disinterest/using. I like it when the consent line is blurry, not crossed. I'm not really a rape fantasy kinda person, and I have been sexually assaulted, soooo nah I'm not interested.

I do enjoy learning about human atrocities but my train-wreck-syndrome focuses around how people deal with intense pain, be it loss of a loved one, loosing your own life or being tortured. I'm not much or a rubbernecker because I don't know much about what the people are going through, and some crumples or metal aren't going to tell me much. I also hate the traffic it causes ont he side of the highway where the accident didn't even fucking take place.

 

[Cattypuss]

If you know exactly what the clinical term "psychopathic" encompasses, then according to the DSM-IV-tr, explain how my comments demonstrate psychotic thinking.

I'll say it again - your thinking and behaviour are psychopathic. I know what that means, and anyone who knows a reasonable amount about actual psychological theory knows what that means. If you don't know what it means - or are too dumb/blind to see that it describes your thinking and behaviour, I am not about to waste my time "justifying" to someone like you a statement that is patently true.

 

[Belle966]

This just completely isn't true.

The victim may not have a hit-counter on the website, but the person who publishes the pictures or video probably does. They feed off the feedback they get from the people who watch it; that feedback validates them, makes them feel what they have done is acceptable or even daring. And because it validates what they have done, it encourages them to repeat the behaviour.

So no - viewing the video does not directly hurt the victim in the video. But it does hurt perpetrator's next victim, because without the encouragement the perpetrator gets through that feedback there might not be a 'next victim'.

I'm not pretending this area is simple or black and white. I have said before and I will say again that in my opinion there's absolutely no way you can tell for certain watching a video or looking at a picture whether what looks like rape is real or consenting. And some rape scenes certainly can be hot, for me. And as I've argued elsewhere there are wide grey areas around the margins of consent.

But ultimately we all know what we mean by rape: it's sex that one of the parties (almost always the party being penetrated) does not consent to at any level. On the good old fashioned test of 'do as you would be done by' that's clearly wrong. So being complicit in it is wrong. End of story.

It seems we're thinking of completely different scenarios... I'd never seek out or buy footage of a woman being raped. I was thinking of it in terms of simply "finding" a video tape somewhere, or having one passed along to me without knowing what it was. Then, the rapist would have no feedback or no hit counter. He, like the victim, wouldn't even know that I'd watched it or enjoyed it.

But, I don't believe that watching the video in any situation would encourage the rapists. No one rapes in order to make money or produce porn. Whether they film the rape or not, and whether people watch it or not, they will still rape because that's just the way they are.

Also, I believe in personal responsibility. If a man rapes, then he's responsible for that. Only him. Not the victim, not society, not people who view his rape videos. By spreading the blame, you remove the blame from the person who commits the act, and so that mentality is actually the one which encourages rape.

 

[BiBunny]

Also, I believe in personal responsibility. If a man rapes, then he's responsible for that. Only him. Not the victim, not society, not people who view his rape videos. By spreading the blame, you remove the blame from the person who commits the act, and so that mentality is actually the one which encourages rape.

ZOMG, yes.

 

[ecstaticsub]

It seems we're thinking of completely different scenarios... I'd never seek out or buy footage of a woman being raped. I was thinking of it in terms of simply "finding" a video tape somewhere, or having one passed along to me without knowing what it was. Then, the rapist would have no feedback or no hit counter. He, like the victim, wouldn't even know that I'd watched it or enjoyed it.

But, I don't believe that watching the video in any situation would encourage the rapists. No one rapes in order to make money or produce porn. Whether they film the rape or not, and whether people watch it or not, they will still rape because that's just the way they are.

Also, I believe in personal responsibility. If a man rapes, then he's responsible for that. Only him. Not the victim, not society, not people who view his rape videos. By spreading the blame, you remove the blame from the person who commits the act, and so that mentality is actually the one which encourages rape.

Some rapists, especially child rapists, have raped to produce porn and make money off of it.

I remember in college a fraternity had set up a video camera in a room and during parties would record drunk women having sex. Some of that may have been consensual others were drunken gangbangs. The fraternity would then show the tapes at other parties. It was a form of entertainment. I am sure that some of the male participants did it due to peer pressure to produce the videos.

In my opinion those who watched the video are not blame free. They men who raped are responsible for the rape. But the ones who are viewing the video are encouraging them.

 

[Netzach]

ZOMG, yes.

This is exactly why image-blaming has always troubled me. Not because the image in question may not be fucked up in some way, but it diffuses the real problem to put a lot of time and energy into that part of it - the easier part, the part that can be pinned down. When it's easy to weasel your way into no jail time for actually sexually assaulting your OWN children, and possible to spend the rest of your life in jail for talking to the wrong person in a chat room, there's a problem with priority and blame - not to mention the uneven application of the law.

Do you think Mark Foley would be walking around if he were anyone else?

 

[BiBunny]

This is exactly why image-blaming has always troubled me. Not because the image in question may not be fucked up in some way, but it diffuses the real problem to put a lot of time and energy into that part of it - the easier part, the part that can be pinned down. When it's easy to weasel your way into no jail time for actually sexually assaulting your OWN children, and possible to spend the rest of your life in jail for talking to the wrong person in a chat room, there's a problem with priority and blame - not to mention the uneven application of the law.

Yep, I agree 10000000%.

 

[Marquis]

I'll say it again - your thinking and behaviour are psychopathic. I know what that means, and anyone who knows a reasonable amount about actual psychological theory knows what that means. If you don't know what it means - or are too dumb/blind to see that it describes your thinking and behaviour, I am not about to waste my time "justifying" to someone like you a statement that is patently true.

This is a pretty immature response.

I for one, hope we get to hear more from Clitoral.

 

[santaluvsk9girl]

No. And I wouldn't consider it an opportunity.

 

[minx1]

I for one, hope we get to hear more from Clitoral.

I don't.

And in regards to comments in other posts about taking away or diluting blame from the perpetrator. Its not about that. Or at least thats not what I am saying.

I am saying though that if you choose to watch real rape porn, you play a role. Even if its in the supply and demand. I'm sorry, people can like it or not. I believe its true.
I also believe that rather that look for excuses about how that isnt the case, those people should take some responsibility for it.
Its not big and its not clever. I'm not impressed by how ''extreme'' some people purport to be. Instead I think, wake up to yourself, how you actually come across and your misguided though process.
I'm even less impressed with how these ''fans'' then try to rid themselves of any responsibility by saying it has nothing to do with them. How very convenient.

This is one case that I wont say each to their own, because this is crossing a line to me. Albeit my line. Though its one I hasten to add, that I am glad I have got.

Sorry for the rant, but rape and violatation is something I feel very strongly about and it pisses me off royally when people watch it for titilation purposes (because fake rape just doesn't do it for them ...boo fucking hoo) and refuse to take any responsibility for their actions.

 

[Marquis]

I don't.

Oh, I see.

Would you perhaps do me the courtesy of shutting the fuck up in my thread then?

I started this thread hoping to learn something about myself.

I think I might get more out of hearing from psychopaths than the same banal opinions endlessly belabored and equivocated across a philosophical spectrum as expansive and diverse as a West Virginian wedding.

 

[intothewoods]

I think I might get more out of hearing from psychopaths than the same banal opinions endlessly belabored and equivocated across a philosophical spectrum as expansive and diverse as a West Virginian wedding.

Assuming the poster is telling the truth. Although whatever, you never know.

 

[Marquis]

Assuming the poster is telling the truth. Although whatever, you never know.

Congruency is truth, on the internet.

And off, too, I suppose.

 

[FurryFury]

This is exactly why image-blaming has always troubled me. Not because the image in question may not be fucked up in some way, but it diffuses the real problem to put a lot of time and energy into that part of it - the easier part, the part that can be pinned down. When it's easy to weasel your way into no jail time for actually sexually assaulting your OWN children, and possible to spend the rest of your life in jail for talking to the wrong person in a chat room, there's a problem with priority and blame - not to mention the uneven application of the law.

Do you think Mark Foley would be walking around if he were anyone else?

I so agree with you!

 

[FurryFury]

I don't.

And in regards to comments in other posts about taking away or diluting blame from the perpetrator. Its not about that. Or at least thats not what I am saying.

I am saying though that if you choose to watch real rape porn, you play a role. Even if its in the supply and demand. I'm sorry, people can like it or not. I believe its true.
I also believe that rather that look for excuses about how that isnt the case, those people should take some responsibility for it.
Its not big and its not clever. I'm not impressed by how ''extreme'' some people purport to be. Instead I think, wake up to yourself, how you actually come across and your misguided though process.
I'm even less impressed with how these ''fans'' then try to rid themselves of any responsibility by saying it has nothing to do with them. How very convenient.

This is one case that I wont say each to their own, because this is crossing a line to me. Albeit my line. Though its one I hasten to add, that I am glad I have got.

Sorry for the rant, but rape and violatation is something I feel very strongly about and it pisses me off royally when people watch it for titilation purposes (because fake rape just doesn't do it for them ...boo fucking hoo) and refuse to take any responsibility for their actions.

I think the "me watching hurts no one argument" is BS too. Like you said, if only from a supply and demand POV.

 

[BiBunny]

Oh, I see.

Would you perhaps do me the courtesy of shutting the fuck up in my thread then?

I started this thread hoping to learn something about myself.

I think I might get more out of hearing from psychopaths than the same banal opinions endlessly belabored and equivocated across a philosophical spectrum as expansive and diverse as a West Virginian wedding.

I'm glad someone else said it, so I didn't have to.

 

[culloden]

This has been a fascinating thread. The more I think about it, the more it disturbs me. The ethics of a situation don't depend on whether anyone else is aware of your actions.

Here's a parallel question. If your neighbor reacted with horror upon your unexpectedly finding them nude, would you leave when they asked you to? Most of us would. But if you were to peek out your window and see your neighbor in the nude, and you knew they'd be horrified by this remote observation, would you turn away? Harder, isn't it?

I think the morally consistent answer would be yes in both cases. In the first scene, there would be social as well as ethical reasons to leave. In the second scene, it would just be your own sense of decency, of the golden rule. I'd feel like I was violating my neighbor by continuing to watch, even though it could be argued my watching was causing no harm.

In the same way, there's a moral consistency between raping and watching a rape movie. I'd feel like I was violating the victim in the same way as watching my unknowing neighbor would be a violation. It's simply not decent to involve the unwilling in one's own sexual universe.

 

[clitoral]

Ok I will answer this briefly and in as polite a way as I can muster.

I havent read your post in detail. All I needed to do was to scan it in order to see the usual excuses and to read the last paragraph.

I am not debating the complexities of sexual gratification I am questioning your reasoning and your choices.

You come across as completely misguided to me. You are convinced that what you do and how you think is acceptable and can be justified.
Well to me it isnt and it can't and I am done humouring you and taking time to respond.

Perhaps you are just exceptionally selfish and dont care where your pleasure is derived from. Or maybe as others here have decided you have a real problem and I guess that their labelling would have something to do with your apparent lack of empathy.

But look, in all honesty I dont care what the reason is and what drives you or ''makes your dick hard''. And I am even less interested in your excuses and cop outs.
In my opinion your mindset is disturbed and you need to seek some help.

If others want to engage in debate with you, thats up to them but I am ending my discussion with you right here.

Thank you for clearly and coherantly debating or at least responding to my posts for as long as you did. You managed to avoid the vitreol and diatribe that others so easily fall into.
I never pretended that I would get you to see things the way I do. Since you don't see things the way I do, you will never understand my views and judge them. Not that I'm here to be judged. I was just chipping in my two cents to an active discussion that is worth having.
By the way, I'm curious, all of you who wouldn't watch such a video because you feel it contributes to another's suffering, are you willing to eat a cheeseburger that caused another life to be killed just to satisfy your greedy hunger?
I would. I suck down double cheeseburgers like candy, fully knowing that a cow lived a shitty life and then died so I could taste it's greesy protien goodness.
What is the difference between a cow's suffering so I can eat and a vid of a cow getting raped by some backwoods redneck? Mention was made earlier on in this thread of how videos of beastiality are unnacceptable because an animal was mistreated. That's why I ask. With burgers, the animal got treated worse, it got killed.

 

[lorddragonwolf]

no would not want to watch an actual rape video