Prepositions, ending a sentence with

[squarejohn]

Opinions please. What are your thoughts about ending a sentence with a preposition? I was taught that it's not really wrong, but it is better to avoid doing so.

 

[stephen55]

During WWII Winston Churchill was reading a report from some General who had gone to great lengths to not end sentences with prepositions.

As he got deeper and deeper into the report, Churchill started to get visibly upset, agitated and mumbling to himself.

Finally he threw down the report and thundered, "This is the kind of English, up with which I shall not put!!"

 

[oggbashan]

This is the sort of English up with which I will not put. Winston Churchill on a sentence ending with a preposition.

But, whatever is suitable for the story is acceptable, ey up!

Og

 

[SamScribble]

As a small boy, I was taught that a preposition is something we must never end a sentence with. And I have generally relied upon that excellent advice.

 

[oggbashan]

Rules about language and grammar are there for guidance.

You should know when you are breaking them, and why.

Og

 

[PennLady]

I believe it is generally wrong to end a sentence with a preposition, according to official grammar rules. And it's not usually too difficult to avoid it. My exception to this, as with many other things, is dialogue. I think it's fine to have a statement that ends with a preposition.

 

[squarejohn]

During WWII Winston Churchill was reading a report from some General who had gone to great lengths to not end sentences with prepositions.

As he got deeper and deeper into the report, Churchill started to get visibly upset, agitated and mumbling to himself.

Finally he threw down the report and thundered, "This is the kind of English, up with which I shall not put!!"

I'm a fan of Churchill. He did have a way with words. I wasn't aware of the quote you quoted, but like many of Churchhill's, remarks, it was a masterpiece. Oh, yeah, it made me LOL.

 

[sr71plt]

Fine. Do it when it seems natural. You're not writing high school themes anymore.

 

[theravenfox]

I get annoyed with myself when I find that I've ended a sentence in a preposition. I try not to, but in the heat of the moment, sometimes grammar flies out the window. In other words, I wouldn't do so in narration, but within dialogue, or personal speech, I think it might be occasionally acceptable. Otherwise you get that "up with which I shall not put!" Which was cute, by the way.

 

[SamScribble]

Actually, although the prohibition on prepositions at the end of sentences is not one that I agree with, I think that there are times when final prepositions can be a little inelegant.

Also, there are times when you want to reserve the end of the sentence for some kind of emphasis. For example: Style is something I care deeply about versus Style is something about which I care deeply.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I don't even know what a preposition is, or how to avoid using one.

I have also heard that it is a fake rule for English. That it was a rule in Latin because prepositions didn't work at the end of sentences in that language, and that somewhere int here someone made up their mind that English sentences should be able to work in Latin, but something or other and stuff...

They said it a lot better than I could

 

[Weird Harold]

I don't even know what a preposition is, or how to avoid using one.

I have also heard that it is a fake rule for English. That it was a rule in Latin because prepositions didn't work at the end of sentences in that language, and that somewhere int here someone made up their mind that English sentences should be able to work in Latin, but something or other and stuff...

They said it a lot better than I could

Shakespeare, Chaucer and others ended sentences with prepositions before English Grammar was "Frenchified" and Latin rules were applied to words with anglo-saxon, germanic, and celtic roots.

The advice given in the book was -- don't end sentences with prepositions if you're going to be graded by someone who cares about them.

 

[R. Richard]

Shakespeare, Chaucer and others ended sentences with prepositions before English Grammar was "Frenchified" and Latin rules were applied to words with anglo-saxon, germanic, and celtic roots.

The advice given in the book was -- don't end sentences with prepositions if you're going to be graded by someone who cares about them.

Along the same line, be prepared for a hostile reception if you have someone who cares and you try ending sentences with a proposition.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't even know what a preposition is, or how to avoid using one.

I have also heard that it is a fake rule for English. That it was a rule in Latin because prepositions didn't work at the end of sentences in that language, and that somewhere int here someone made up their mind that English sentences should be able to work in Latin, but something or other and stuff...

They said it a lot better than I could

You are exactly right, Thee. The english tongue is pretty dang flexible, and can handle a lot of irregularities.

Even so, we've so gotten out of the habit, that we notice when the fake rule gets broken.

 

[Ellafun]

As a student, I was taught to never end a sentence with a preposition. I have been told that I am a grammar snob, because I will rewrite a sentence to ensure that it does not happen. As a matter of fact, my husband found a shirt for me that says "I am the grammar snob about whom your mother warned."

That being said...it annoys the shit out of me when somebody ends a sentence in a preposition!!!

 

[squarejohn]

In the parochial school I attended, where the nuns taught the three Rs-- sometimes using teaching aids such as the edge of a ruler smacked over one's knuckles--we were taught that ending a sentence with a preposition was less correct than ending without one, but not really wrong. I took that to heart because here was a rule I could bend without suffering dire consequences. Still, I avoided ending without. I do end with, without losing any sleep, but only to avoid sounding like the example cited above by stephen55.

 

[Bianca_Sommerland]

If it feels natural, I say do it. Do not let your internal editor write for you. He's a tight ass.

Then again, when you're editing, it better fit. If not, find a different way to say what you mean.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I used to scrupulously avoid ending sentences with prepositions, until I realized it sometimes sound rather prissy. Now I do, but not very often. Of course, in dialogue, it depends on who is speaking. Selma Fox, the English teacher would never end a sentence with a preposition, but most people would.

I think the idea is that a prep. needs an object and, if it is the last word in a sentence, it wouldn't be able to have one.

 

[TE999]

If it sounds good when read aloud, then it's fine...arbitrary rules of grammar are meant to be broken.

At one time 'ain't' wasn't in the dictionary either.

 

[sr71plt]

I used to scrupulously avoid ending sentences with prepositions, until I realized it sometimes sound rather prissy.

In the same vein, how do you feel about splitting infinities.

 

[squarejohn]

In the same vein, how do you feel about splitting infinities.

Isn't a split infinitive the opposite of a dangling participle?

 

[sr71plt]

Isn't a split infinitive the opposite of a dangling participle?

Yes, when you dangle your participle, sometimes you are permitted to split something--to infinitive.

 

[Boxlicker101]

In the same vein, how do you feel about splitting infinities.

I split infinitives if I want to emphasis the negative. "I want to not go," as opposed to "I don't want to go." "I want to not remember," as opposed to I don't want to remember. Splitting the infinitive makes it known with no doubt what my wishes are.

 

[sr71plt]

I split infinitives if I want to emphasis the negative. "I want to not go," as opposed to "I don't want to go." "I want to not remember," as opposed to I don't want to remember. Splitting the infinitive makes it known with no doubt what my wishes are.

Well, that went right over your head, didn't it?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Originally Posted by sr71plt
In the same vein, how do you feel about splitting infinities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
I split infinitives if I want to emphasis the negative. "I want to not go," as opposed to "I don't want to go." "I want to not remember," as opposed to I don't want to remember. Splitting the infinitive makes it known with no doubt what my wishes are.

Well, that went right over your head, didn't it?

This is a thread on a forum that is supposed to be about writing, and I answered your question about writing.