Power

[Guest]

Oh for fuck's sakes! Someone just shoot me now plz.

Posting to Lit is like pissing in the wind...its only fun or worth it if your into watersports.

ROFLMAO!!!! And now you know part of why my sense of humor is the way it is....

I had a lot of time to think tonight..The float on my gas guage evidently got stuck and I ended up walking back to my place in the pitch ass dark...Nothing else to do but think, and watch for the huge fewkin dogs that the dumb ass city people insist on letting run loose as soon as they move to a rural area.
{*grin* And they wonder why Rover just dissapears one day, it's cause the farmer over the hill shot him for running cattle.}

So..

Being reasonably contemplative, and not in the mood for circumlution..

The truth is, "Power" is a ridiculously ephemeral term that means whatever you want it to.
"Power exchange" means whatever the two (or more) people involved want it to.

If someone really wanted me to talk to them about BDSM, I don't think I would be able to use the word "power" in a complete coherent sentence ...Essentially it means jack-shit.

Why do I have this opinion (and thats all it really can be)?
Because I never use the word power when I think about what is happening. Or when I think about myself, or my desires.
I might talk to them about the four things I listed before. And I might expand it through the other list.
But for myself, I DO think about control, of myself, of the situation, and of the other.
Control, and achieving a desired effect. Whatever that may be at the moment, or over the long term.
"Power" sounds really good. I mean Jeeze it's "POWER", it must be good right?
Anyone who ever drove a '79 Trans Am during the winter can tell you just how much good power without control really is. Well, after the tow truck got there.

Hmmm..An opinion on SSC. Yes, it may be trite. Yes it may be common sense.
But common sense just aint all that common.
If it was, you wouldn't have people managing to off themselves every year masterbating. {WHich I see as natural selection.}
Anything that can be reduced to an acronym will probably be overused...
SO what?
It's a reasonably painless way of expressing an idea - especially to people of low experience levels - and the simplicity of it tends to make it stick (we hope).
*sigh* If nothing else, if followed in moderation, it helps to reduce (even slightly) the amount of bad press.

Definition of "power"= useless and overused buzzword that has lost any coherent, concrete, meaning within the context of this discussion.

 

[A Desert Rose]

...Hmmm..An opinion on SSC. Yes, it may be trite. Yes it may be common sense.
But common sense just aint all that common.
If it was, you wouldn't have people managing to off themselves every year masterbating. {WHich I see as natural selection.}
Anything that can be reduced to an acronym will probably be overused...
SO what?
It's a reasonably painless way of expressing an idea - especially to people of low experience levels - and the simplicity of it tends to make it stick (we hope).
*sigh* If nothing else, if followed in moderation, it helps to reduce (even slightly) the amount of bad press.

Definition of "power"= useless and overused buzzword that has lost any coherent, concrete, meaning within the context of this discussion.

You know, you're right. It's well known that you can teach people common sense. (everyone knows that and I'm a dumbass for thinking otherwise.) And as I said before it is all about good PR.

And obviously I am not entitled to my opinion if it is the wrong one.

My apologies to you, to RJ and to everyone else for posting it.

Like I said before, and you brought home to me loud and clear... what the fuck do I know?

Quite obviously, nothing.

 

[RJMasters]

Okie Dokie

Moving right along here...getting this thread back on track.

Another word which I like to add to the list...would be


Maturity.


More later...

 

[MissTaken]

...but...I believe that our behaviors and attitudes are derived by how we think about certain things. Often we spend endless hours talking about behavior and such and maybe what we should really be talking about is what causes that behavior to form expression.

To build on this point, our behaviors and attitudes are also derived by our experiences. How we view our world is largely based on where we have been, what we have experienced and how we have learned.


To that end, "power" in and of itself is a word that had negative connotations for me. Hence, I approach any discussions and my relationship with scooter, very cautiously, with much care and concern for both of us.

Power can be taken without consent. Manipulation, the use of fear to control another, the use of violence are just a few examples of this.

I am beginning to believe that devotion begets power, whether it is false or non consensual devotion as mentioned above, or devotion derived by choice, need or *gasp* even love.

How any of us interprate BDSM, D/s or any of hte components of this lifestyle is also built, in a large part on our life experiences. So, dissenting opinons must exist.

How I am living my life may not be what fulfills the needs of any of my friends, nor should it. How I integrate BDSM into our relationship is likely to vary from any other poster here and in fact, varies from any relatinship I have ever had.

And in thought, devotion is what seems to be driving us. Devotion combined with need, combined with respect appear to motivate the power exchange between us.

 

[RJMasters]

To build on this point, our behaviors and attitudes are also derived by our experiences. How we view our world is largely based on where we have been, what we have experienced and how we have learned.


Nods in agreement...this is certainly true.


To that end, "power" in and of itself is a word that had negative connotations for me. Hence, I approach any discussions and my relationship with scooter, very cautiously, with much care and concern for both of us.

Power can be taken without consent. Manipulation, the use of fear to control another, the use of violence are just a few examples of this.


See, this is the other side of the coin. These are very good points and worth more discussion. Power has many negative connotations for many people. the word by itself "power" causes one to almost throw up immediate defenses. There is an almost sharp arrogant feel that is associated with the word.

The word manipulation is interesting because a key aspect of power is derived by "control". But as you say it is an attempt to control without consent. I believe that consent comes from the human will as it is a choice, hence the use of manipulation is an attempt to by pass that. If successful it means to me that one person has used "power" arbitarily and you don't have power exchange as much as you have power being taken without consent.


I am beginning to believe that devotion begets power, whether it is false or non consensual devotion as mentioned above, or devotion derived by choice, need or *gasp* even love.

How any of us interprate BDSM, D/s or any of hte components of this lifestyle is also built, in a large part on our life experiences. So, dissenting opinons must exist.

How I am living my life may not be what fulfills the needs of any of my friends, nor should it. How I integrate BDSM into our relationship is likely to vary from any other poster here and in fact, varies from any relatinship I have ever had.

And in thought, devotion is what seems to be driving us. Devotion combined with need, combined with respect appear to motivate the power exchange between us.

Your last paragraph should be framed.

Devotion. Now there is a word for contemplation. You could write a whole book about devotion...love, lusts, desires, singleness of focus. As a Dom that is something I not only want from my submissive but give my submissive too...and I think its fair to say any submissive would like that from their Dom or Domme.

Needs. Powerful things they are. Prolly could talk days on end as to the difference between needs and wants, but regardless of wheather they are needs or wants, they do have the power to control us and effect us.

Devotion + Need + Respect = a perfect example

This has a real balanced feel to it, not overly heavy to the top or the bottom to me.

There is not a set formula as many have mentioned. It will be different and vary between couples, But the more and more we discuss it, the more I see examples of what is considered good and bad power. I don't want to try to setup a judgement or make rules about it as much as I want to put forth examples for people to look at that are realistic and not etherial concepts. I happen to agree that manipulation is something that both Dom/Domme and submissive alike should avoid.

I may not ever duplicate the power exchange which you and Scooter have Miss T, but I can say with honesty that having devotion for one another, to meet each other needs combined with respect is something I certainly would desire in my relationship with my submissive. I am willing to bet there are others who would say the same thing.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Netzach]

Well now that you mention it...BING! Give that man a cigar.

I think its fair to say that me and Richard share some similar views that there is a difference between D/s and BDSM. I think the differences of focus and approach are signifigant.

When I read Net's fake it till you make it philosophy and many of your posts RR, such as to ADR's comment in this thread - "its all about the kink"....I realize that both of your views and approach to the lifestyle are quite different in how I view things.

I have never walked the paths either of you two have nor based on what I have read would care to, though I have learned to expand my views and at least can appreciate where you two come from and why. On the surface...there is an appearance that is not returned.

For me D/s relationships are not created because of sexual kink commonality(sometimes they can and do). The way "I" see things, Sexual Kink has is proper place within a D/s relationship. I never would respect the kink over respecting a person. I might respect a kink because I respect the person that desires it. Sexual experience is only a small part of an overall realtionship between a dominant and their submissive. And that is why I hold a distinction between D/s and BDSM as one seems to focus on the sexual expeience where the other is more about the inner dynamics of overall relationship building.

I don't see the need to be critical of either approach...do you?

I don't see a need to be critical, but I don't have to personally pursue that path any more than I want to pursue scat play afficianados. Sorry if you feel that your views are not expanding and enlightening my views, but that's not always how that works, and it's not because I don't respect them or your right to hold them, I just have my own and I'm entitled to them as well.

Personally, sexual and relational kinks are integral in my definition of what I'm doing. "Surrendered Wives" are not BDSM. Timid browbeaten husbands are not BDSM. Sufis and Buddhists are not BDSM, although any of the above can be, I imagine.

I don't see the D/s in my life as something to be separated from the BDSM portion, it's a chicken and egg question.

There's definitely room at the table in BDSM lit, for people who have no interest in painplay, perversity, upsetting the staus quo, spanking, sodomy, roleplay, whipping, flogging, figging, or pretending to be ponies.... but, that said, they are usually the people I hope not to have to sit next to at the assigned table seating, because it's going to be boring for both of us and it reminds me of being in a vanilla setting when I have my passions painted as "mere kink."

I personally thought that's what I'm here for. If I assert that I get told I'm telling others what cookies to eat. So pardon me if I prefer to be private about what I think BDSM and D/s is - no one else has to agree with me, but if asked I'll answer and I don't expect everyone to want to make friends with me based on that answer.

As for fake it till you make it, I don't suppose you will ever understand my comment, RJ, because you have never been a 23 year old 5'4" woman with a lifetime of girl conditioning standing in a hotel room with a 6'4" "I box every week to work out" man, with the expectation that he's going to be overpowered, wondering where to start, at the same time that you're dying to get started and at the same time as you'd never actually want to harm that person.

Maybe you've never had to pull on resources you don't think or realize you have with a submissive. It's like a baseball player who wants his lucky dirty socks on.

Again, you're relegating the sexual experience to "only a sexual experience." Sexual experiences are not peripheral to my experience. They are not "but a small facet of my relaitonship." Sex is my religion. Sex is transcendant, it makes my community, it is a form of communication, art, and poetry and without it my life would not be worth living. It's how I commune with my creator and how I interact with my fellows. Dungeon is temple.

Fortunately for me, my definition of the sexual is nearly infinite. I fully expect to be having sex when I am 90, if I am 90, as long as my brain still works. Ironicly, my health has made sexual play and intercourse with anyone out of the question these last few weeks and it makes me insane, but I still see my relationships as sexual ones, my D/s as a sexuality, just as I'm still queer when I'm celibate.

I don't separate M's love and adoration from that fabric of relationship, SM and D/s exist on a large sexual continuum. Sexuality is a lot more than fucking.

 

[Netzach]

How any of us interprate BDSM, D/s or any of hte components of this lifestyle is also built, in a large part on our life experiences. So, dissenting opinons must exist.

How I am living my life may not be what fulfills the needs of any of my friends, nor should it. How I integrate BDSM into our relationship is likely to vary from any other poster here and in fact, varies from any relatinship I have ever had.

This is the part I would frame.

 

[Netzach]

That's exactly what I was thinking

~anelize

Pinko.

 

[sunfox]

Netzach, as usual, has said it largely for me, and much more nicely than I'll probably word it. But that's not going to stop me from commenting, of course. It's the masochist in me.. I'm a glutton for punishment.

I see a lot of pissing and moaning because someone doesn't think the same way you do, or because someone offered a dissenting opinion on a post you made.

Get a spine. This is a discussion board. If you can't handle someone discussing with you, then maybe you need to rethink your reasons for being here.. there are other boards that are purely friendly and shiny happy, and no one will ever be mean and say 'I'm not sure I feel the same way, and this is why' to you.

That this comes across as rude is unavoidable, and honestly, doesn't bother me. I'd expect someone to say this to me if I was doing the bitching because someone didn't take a subject the exact same way I did.

The drama is overstifling the actual thread, and some people that I normally find very interesting to read are starting to edge towards ignore with their 'woe is me, nobody thinks I'm brilliant' rhetoric.

You came here to discuss, and to debate. So let's do that, and stop the tantrums. Thanks.

 

[sunfox]

I am beginning to believe that devotion begets power, whether it is false or non consensual devotion as mentioned above, or devotion derived by choice, need or *gasp* even love.

How any of us interprate BDSM, D/s or any of hte components of this lifestyle is also built, in a large part on our life experiences. So, dissenting opinons must exist.

How I am living my life may not be what fulfills the needs of any of my friends, nor should it. How I integrate BDSM into our relationship is likely to vary from any other poster here and in fact, varies from any relatinship I have ever had.

And in thought, devotion is what seems to be driving us. Devotion combined with need, combined with respect appear to motivate the power exchange between us.

And now to get back on topic, since I got that off my chest.. thank you, MissT, for this.

This is exactly what I think a lot of people on this thread are saying.. that you cannot define something that is different for each person, that is built upon their experiences and personal desires/needs.

You can give ideas, or examples, or say what it is like for you.. but you can't expect that idea to hold true for the next person to come along, or you start pushing your idea of what BDSM -should- be onto others, which imo, is unnecessary and inexcusable.

It's a personal journey, and others can only help you on the way to finding out what you want to make of it. They can't do it for you or make a map exactly to the end destination. And why would you want them to?

 

[A Desert Rose]

...that you cannot define something that is different for each person, that is built upon their experiences and personal desires/needs.

And that's about true for anything BDSM/Ds related... in my opinion, of course.

 

[Marquis]

Sorry RJ.

As for fake it till you make it, I don't suppose you will ever understand my comment, RJ, because you have never been a 23 year old 5'4" woman with a lifetime of girl conditioning standing in a hotel room with a 6'4" "I box every week to work out" man, with the expectation that he's going to be overpowered, wondering where to start, at the same time that you're dying to get started and at the same time as you'd never actually want to harm that person.

Daaaayuum. I can't even imagine what kind of mindfuck devices you have in your reservoir of ideas to pull off that shit. I have about four scenarios I can work with:

I am the arrogant asshole you are the dumb broad, I am a pimp you are a ho, I am a black man and this is how we act and the very recently added "do you know what bdsm is?"

Of course its all a Venn diagram and I'm at my best when I'm firing all four cylinders. Love to take a look under your hood sometime, but I bet there's only one way to get there right?

A pro-domme I met at a fetish club gave me the skinny. I gave her the fatty and we called it even.

Anyway, I gotta give RJ his thread back but I lost two long responses to your last pm because your box was full! Jesus woman, have you no love for you fans?!

 

[Netzach]

M-

I did some cleaning. I don't know about my hood, only that it's not quite big enough for a piercing.

But you can pick my brain any time. Sorry, hijack off.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I am the arrogant asshole you are the dumb broad, I am a pimp you are a ho, I am a black man and this is how we act and the very recently added "do you know what bdsm is?"

All excellent. May I add, as corollary to #4 "beware false domination--only I can protect you from the predators, baby".

 

[Netzach]

Which seems to be the most popular genre out there. Good call.

 

[RJMasters]

Well I am sorry some of you feel that I am trying to run a popularity contest of some sorts here, and that you view what has been said as a tantrum.

The truth is I am a bit fustrated with what I see as an over-all hijack of the topic I originally started.

Just because this topic doesn't fit into other peoples perspective doesn't mean I am trying to make or force them into it either. So I don't see the reason why they feel they need to not only disagree but then do their best to derail the topic.

If it doesn't fit for you, feel free to post your disagreement then move on and let those of us who has a different focus discuss it.

There is nothing wrong with purposing that a Dom or Domme should consider things about their character especially when so many submissives express the desire of wanting a Dom and Domme they can trust and respect.

As said by ADR...if your not mature enough, then we are not gonna play.

To me its a no brainer, I honestly think though if I posted the color of the sky was blue, people would disagree just for the sake of disagreeing. Although they wound't just disagree...they would say the sky is not blue and I resent the implication you are making on how I should run my life. We would then spend a gazillion post in circular flamitory arguments and the original topic and any possible value it might have been to others is lost.

So I am gonna say it as clear as I can...

This thread comes prolly more form a D/s focus and targets more those looking to have a long term D/s relationship and wondering what are some things they can learn to help make that happen.

For consideration, the idea has been put for by me that having a right conept of power is or can be an import step in becoming a stronger Dom or Domme. A dsicussion about power has ensued about what it is and how it is exchanged.

Some have misunderstood, some have flat out disagreed, some have agreed but have their own semantic versions.

I still think that for the Dom or Domme looking to understand what power is or the exchange of that within the D/s relationship...can get a glimps from some of the examples people have shared, and gets them to think a little bit more about what they want and how to get it.

There has been some excellent summations of this thread already. I guess my summation would rest on the word Maturity. Maturity to me describes an over-all sense of a person's individual power. It kinda of encompasses many of the other words we have talked about like respect and honesty. I know alot of submissives who claim they like older men as they have more maturity...I guess as a simple example that is kinda what this thread is all about.

What creates that attraction to a Dom or Domme, lust, desire, wants, charisma, but what empowers the trust, respect and deepening of the relationship is the maturity.

And so I am clear, I am not looking for affirmation about this topic. I know this topic has value for many in the BDSM community. I have spent enough time with broken people who were unforntunate enough to be involved with someone who was immature...and felt because they were the Dom or Domme could do anything they wanted.

I am not against the "just do it" crowd as long as there is a balance of genuine care for those they are just doing it to. I have seen the result of "just do it", they done it....and what they have left in their destructive wake is sad.

 

[Marquis]

To me its a no brainer, I honestly think though if I posted the color of the sky was blue, people would disagree just for the sake of disagreeing. Although they wound't just disagree...they would say the sky is not blue and I resent the implication you are making on how I should run my life. We would then spend a gazillion post in circular flamitory arguments and the original topic and any possible value it might have been to others is lost.

So I am gonna say it as clear as I can...

RJ, we've shared pms before and you know that I like you, so I'm not going to sugar coat this.

People are not taking you as personally as you are taking them.

However your set of ideas is not the most popular around here. It doesn't make them invalid, but it's honestly just not how most people on this particular forum see it. People are going to make jokes with each other at your expense, because they have something in common and you do not.

Now it is for you to decide. Do you steel your reserve - no wait that's a malt liquor- steel your resolve against your detractors and become the confident minority, or do you move on to greener pastures?

You tried the latter, and it didn't work out so hot. I would like to see you stick around for two reasons. Although I don't have a total grasp on your personality, I think you're funny and we could use an extra dom around here. But purely in the interest of keeping the marketplace of ideas open, I would like you to put your word in.

Make your jokes too. Even if you don't have a crowd of fanboys to laugh with you, I'm sure there are plenty of lurkers who are chuckling with you.

 

[Marquis]

All excellent. May I add, as corollary to #4 "beware false domination--only I can protect you from the predators, baby".

And I have the latex to prove it.

 

[Marquis]

RJ, also, I want you to understand that I definitely agree with you philosophically on many levels as well. I think that there is a lot of credence to "better domination through self-improvement" and I've told you so.

 

[Guest]

RJ, also, I want you to understand that I definitely agree with you philosophically on many levels as well. I think that there is a lot of credence to "better domination through self-improvement" and I've told you so.

I think thats a lot of what I was trying to say...except in a succinct nutshell.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

If you think that no one will or should submit to someone who's imperfect, whose confidence is not established, who doesn't know exactly who they are yet, whose motives are not purely altruistic, well I don't think anyone would wind up doing D/s. What if you make a mistake? Welcome to the world of humanity.

When you decide to take up needlepoint outside of the BDSM context, i'll buy silk thread and pay dearly for a copy of this QBotU.

 

[Netzach]

RJ, we've shared pms before and you know that I like you, so I'm not going to sugar coat this.

People are not taking you as personally as you are taking them.

However your set of ideas is not the most popular around here. It doesn't make them invalid, but it's honestly just not how most people on this particular forum see it. People are going to make jokes with each other at your expense, because they have something in common and you do not.

Now it is for you to decide. Do you steel your reserve - no wait that's a malt liquor- steel your resolve against your detractors and become the confident minority, or do you move on to greener pastures?

You tried the latter, and it didn't work out so hot. I would like to see you stick around for two reasons. Although I don't have a total grasp on your personality, I think you're funny and we could use an extra dom around here. But purely in the interest of keeping the marketplace of ideas open, I would like you to put your word in.

Make your jokes too. Even if you don't have a crowd of fanboys to laugh with you, I'm sure there are plenty of lurkers who are chuckling with you.

Well said.

I would go so far as to say this notion of D/s is probably anything but a minority opinion. You will find ample websites dedicated to it, you will find a lot of BDSM lit nodding its head along.

I'm less likely to post an "uh huh amen" than I am a "hmmmmwelll...actually, not really."

I think a lot of people are, because disagreement is simply a more interesting stance when a discussion is being had, or adding to the information out on the table.

The topic as I understand it is "what is power?" Definitions get thrown forth, I don't necessarily see these definitions as the answer, or the only answer, or an answer that reflects my knowledge, or definitions of power that All Good Doms (tm) will acknowledge, which seems to be the corrolary that is creeping into the mix. So I said so. I still say so.

I think it's very important that we check ourselves and that we, as Dominants ask ourselves "am I doing this for the greater good, am I doing harm, am I being an ogre just because I can all the time and is that a good idea?"

Maybe that's more important to me, that a Dominant is self-reflexive and self-questioning and self-aware. That alone should temper the tendency to abuse power. Empathy helps. I'm more concerned about a person's internal sense of checks and balances than I am concerned with them not having a gleefully machavellian sensibility about their power and instead having read the book on parenting and benevolent authority.

 

[sunfox]

Well I am sorry some of you feel that I am trying to run a popularity contest of some sorts here, and that you view what has been said as a tantrum.

The truth is I am a bit fustrated with what I see as an over-all hijack of the topic I originally started.

Just because this topic doesn't fit into other peoples perspective doesn't mean I am trying to make or force them into it either. So I don't see the reason why they feel they need to not only disagree but then do their best to derail the topic.

If it doesn't fit for you, feel free to post your disagreement then move on and let those of us who has a different focus discuss it.

There is nothing wrong with purposing that a Dom or Domme should consider things about their character especially when so many submissives express the desire of wanting a Dom and Domme they can trust and respect.

As said by ADR...if your not mature enough, then we are not gonna play.

To me its a no brainer, I honestly think though if I posted the color of the sky was blue, people would disagree just for the sake of disagreeing. Although they wound't just disagree...they would say the sky is not blue and I resent the implication you are making on how I should run my life. We would then spend a gazillion post in circular flamitory arguments and the original topic and any possible value it might have been to others is lost.

So I am gonna say it as clear as I can...*snip*

Just so's I have it all copacetic...

What you're looking for when you start a thread here is for everyone to nod and smile and tell you 'oh goodness. You're so right.'

Everyone who doesn't agree is permitted to disagree once, but henceforth, must get thee to another thread, where their impious tendency to have a difference of opinion will not offend thy eyes. After all.. if they're disagreeing, they're wrong, and that shan't be countenanced.

Let -me- say it as clearly as I can, so that even those lurking in the back can hear it... That's not discussion. That's holding forth on a topic.. or lecturing, if you will... or even, dare I say it? Pontificating.

Thanks, but I can listen to my dad preach if I want to hear a one-sided opinion on something.. that's not why I'm here.

Disagreement is not derailment. Talking about clitoral orgasms in a thread about shaving your ass.. that would be derailment.

But... since there is no disagreement allowed, because it hurts people's feelings... I shall take my grubby subby self and find a thread where discussion is happening. Cause to me.. that's a no brainer.

 

[Netzach]

I'll think back to my stalled submissive attempts and what made me willing or completely unwilling to go there with someone, how I would define power in that person.

G's power is his humility and his not giving a shit about rankings, recognition, opinions etc. A heady combination of something more than maturity (the man watches cartoons) and more than confidence (I know the insecurities that will make him cry) The fact that he can watch 45 grown men all pee on the same tree and instead of having to pee there too he can go "how interesting, hm."

His power is his seductive charm, how he was able to sugarcoat doing what he wanted when he wanted, so that there was an appearance of benefit to doing as he wished. A Dominant with no power of seduction is pretty screwed, a Dominant with no charm in the eyes of the sub is going to sink, because - in my experience - positive reinforcement is always going to be the more powerful and more effective of options.

If he had ever pulled the paternal "you have disappointed me greatly, I must now give you your 10 spankings" I would have shoved him out the door and locked it. The punishment for disobedience was that there was no punishment. Anyone who is a service oriented submissive with a genuine jones to get it right will agree that that's one of the shittiest most punitive things out there. I had to grow up and cope and get better like any adult. I would say that "not underestimating your inferiors" would be another marker of power in my eyes. I expect adult behavior and I get adult behavior and I view my self-acknowledged subordinates as well capable of sticking to their own programs.

I simply employ light punishment models in my relationships because I find them needed by the other party or enjoyable on a minor and cognitive level. I do not employ serious punishment because the need for such indicates that the submissive already no longer recognizes his or her place as a submissive and servant and, a la Eb - ass, boot, door time would be in order if I found enough of a lapse that training or correction of the verbal kind would not address.

If I had me as a submissive, I never would pull "punishment" - I'd still let me wring my hands in guilt until I got over it. It was good for me, I used to be totally wracked with guilt and desperate to get everyone to like me and to do everything perfectly and now I'm content to fuck people over, fuck up, and most of all admit it and join the rest of the human race. Part of G's power over me was in knowing me, so I think an interest in your subjects is important to any endeavor to weild power in a constructive way. An ability to read between the lines, even very quickly. Let's call it the very unsexy word "sensitivity."

I'm still a bit stalled with the definition of "a long-term D/s relationship." If I have a slave who comes and cleans my house every week, kisses my boot and thanks me for the honor and leaves and unless I call her up goes on with her life, that is also a "long term D/s relationship" and in many ways purer D/s than what I do with mr. netz.


I tend to divide my world into partners and slaves, and a person can never really be both things. Even though my slave and I have an extremely loving relationship, he will never be a partner. The cordial and loving relationship will never overshadow the truth completely, that he is and wants to be property which I can treat however I choose. The power I excercise over him is NOT always benevolent, DOES have a possibility of risk and danger, does not always benefit him as far as I'm concerned, and my will to excercise it anyway is critical to him.

I think he made that choice based on my understading of his specific mind and desire and my expert handling of his kinks, personal, sexual, and total. I think he made that decision based on understanding that I would seek to know what would be really bad or difficult for him, but my avoidance of those things is purely up to me and there are no guarantees on my part.

I also happen to think that a dialogue on power is as important, if not more so among submissives, at least the ones I want around me. I prefer a submissive with a strong sense of personal power and responsibility to one seeking to escape the rigors of life.

 

[Guest]

*scratches head*

Hmm....

Could the difference in philosophies and oulooks be inherently due to the difference in relationships?....Or perhaps in the relationships that we are seeking???