PoV Hopping

[Bebop3]

Hi,

Do you have a problem with PoV hopping when utilizing omniscient narrator?

I do and it annoys the heck out of me. I'm not overly concerned about PoV if it's not first person narration, but I do try to utilize a soft control and keep things generally from the same PoV, but I'm not a control freak about it.

But I slip. A lot. In the same chapter I'll have three different PoV's without purposefully slipping from one to the other.

I think it's one of those 'you get better as you do it' sort of things, but it's annoying to see when you go back over your work.

 

[SimonDoom]

Absolutely.

I like writing in the 3d person omniscient POV, which gives me the luxury of moving from one POV to another, and I've done that in several of my stories. In some, I felt it was defensible because I couldn't tell the story I wanted to tell without it. But the more I write, the more unsatisfactory I think it is to do this. I'm gravitating toward a general principle that when writing in 3d person omniscient POV I'll keep it to one POV in a single scene, and switch only when the next scene starts.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Giving each pov landing a good long day in the sun and signifying whose head you're in works okay (whole sections, with the break clearly shown), but jumping para by para or worse, sentence by sentence can be unsettling. Sometimes unsettling is the point, but if you don't spot it until later, yeah, that's something to be caught.

Also, giving us every thought, every time, usually ends up "telling" readers too much - let readers figure it out for themselves. Mind you, some readers seem to want to be spoon fed everything...

 

[KeithD]

I try to stick to one perspective but write the other characters so that the reader mostly can understand what their perspective is.

 

[KindofHere]

.................

 

[Son_of_Battles]

I generally only write in first person, and only one perspective. Some stories, I have to take a hard look at the story to figure out who I want telling it. It normally comes down to what I want the reader to see, and know.

That being said, I have a full story written in first where the PoV hops back and forth between to characters locked in a room together for a prolonged period of time. I switch between them sometimes every few pages, and other times every couple paragraphs. I felt that it was the only way to show their conflicted sexual feelings as well as their...mixed interpretations of the others intentions and feelings. I built up the tension until it exploded.

I both love and hate this story, and have yet to publish it. I just don't know how I feel about the PoV hopping. It can be a tricky thing to master. I wish I had advice for your PoV problems, but I'm still fairly new to this and thought I would drop this in your PoV thread.

 

[KeithD]

When it's omniscient and not first person omniscient, the only POV should be yours, right? The narrator's. The characters shouldn't have a point of view at all. Everything not in quotes or italics is said in the narrator's words/tone, even if its describing what is going on in several different people's heads in the same chapter.

Are you sure you're head-hopping? Give us an example.

No, in third person omniscient, the narrator knows everything in the characters' minds and can choose to let it all burble out--straight out of every character's mind, if the narrator chooses. That's not too popular in the U.S. market. It still has a place in British writing.

First person omniscient would be a wild ride.

 

[KindofHere]

.............

 

[NotWise]

Hi,

Do you have a problem with PoV hopping when utilizing omniscient narrator?

I see this as a tool, not a problem. You narrator isn't omniscient if he/she doesn't view the story from more than one angle.

 

[SimonDoom]

So head-hopping/pov-hopping is more like third person limited but from two people in the same chapter?

As far as one article I read, POV shifting and omniscient are two different things.

It's a little unclear to me what people mean by head-hopping, but I think this is the difference:

Omniscient means the narrator can, at any point, get into the head of any character and let the reader know what that character is thinking. The narrator is like God and knows everything.

But it doesn't always make sense for the narrator to do that. A skillful omniscient narrator will know when and how to get into different characters' heads to tell the story best.

Some people here maintain that "head-hopping" -- meaning going back and forth from one character's mental processes to another's within a single scene -- is a bad thing. I don't think that's quite true, although it can be true.

Consider McMurtry's Lonesome Dove. It's a novel told in the 3d person omniscient that at one point or another exposes the reader to many different character's thought processes. In chapter 1 alone the reader is exposed to what Gus, Call, and Newt think, although the main emphasis is on Gus's point of view. It won the Pulitzer Prize and was hugely popular, so I don't think one can say that "head-hopping" is per se bad or not acceptable in American publishing. There's plenty of head hopping within scenes in that book. That's part of the point of the book -- revealing many different perspectives on the events of the story.

Even so, it has to be handled carefully, because bouncing back from one POV to another can be confusing and also can ruin the drama of a scene.

 

[KeithD]

So head-hopping/pov-hopping is more like third person limited but from two people in the same chapter?

As far as one article I read, POV shifting and omniscient are two different things.

To me, third person limited is the narrator giving what he/she/they are doing but revealing it from a single character's perspective. Giving it from more than one character's perspective slips into third person omniscient. If the perspectives of multiple characters pop out in the same scene, that's head hopping.

 

[NotWise]

Even so, it has to be handled carefully, because bouncing back from one POV to another can be confusing and also can ruin the drama of a scene.

In discussions I've read here, authors have complained about 'head hopping' because it can confuse the reader. I think it can confuse the reader if it's done badly. English can confuse the reader if it's done badly. There's nothing inherently wrong with getting into more than one character's head.

 

[KeithD]

I'm sure it can be done well. The problem is that as control over perspective is lost, the writing tends to become sloppy and increasingly is preferred by the less-skilled writers. So, it isn't that it can't be done well; is more that lazier and less skilled writers tend toward that writing style an become more of the proportion of writers using it.

 

[KeithD]

I'm mulling writing a story in that there first person omniscient. I think an erotic story would be nifty where a guy is sitting with friends and knows and can give the reader what all of them are thinking but him giving it from first-person perspective, him knowing which are them are going off to fuck afterwards even though they'd prefer to be doing it with someone else they are thinking about.

 

[NotWise]

I'm mulling writing a story in that there first person omniscient. I think an erotic story would be nifty where a guy is sitting with friends and knows and can give the reader what all of them are thinking but him giving it from first-person perspective, him knowing which are them are going off to fuck afterwards even though they'd prefer to be doing it with someone else they are thinking about.

That sounds potentially interesting.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I've written multiple stories where the POV shifts from one person to another. They were all written in 1st person though and I clearly mark which person is narrating the story.

ie,

Diane ~~~~~


John ~~~~~


etc. ~~~~~

With third person POV the camera follows the action. Or may move from one scene to another. The narrator says the same, just goes from room to room or mind to mind.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm sure it can be done well. The problem is that as control over perspective is lost, the writing tends to become sloppy and increasingly is preferred by the less-skilled writers. So, it isn't that it can't be done well; is more that lazier and less skilled writers tend toward that writing style an become more of the proportion of writers using it.

Agree. That's why in the stories I'm writing now I'm working on controlling the POV more, so it shifts less, or not at all, within a single scene. I may decide to chuck that approach later, but I'm trying it for now.

 

[Hypoxia]

I just re-read Crichton's Lost World. Constant third-limited or -omniscient hopping, usually identified by a section title. As long as the reader knows who's-who, fine.

 

[Son_of_Battles]

I've written multiple stories where the POV shifts from one person to another. They were all written in 1st person though and I clearly mark which person is narrating the story.

ie,

Diane ~~~~~


John ~~~~~


etc. ~~~~~

With third person POV the camera follows the action. Or may move from one scene to another. The narrator says the same, just goes from room to room or mind to mind.

I kind of like this idea for my own story problem. My only question is do your readers mention anything about it pulling them from the flow of the story?

 

[KeithD]

I just re-read Crichton's Lost World. Constant third-limited or -omniscient hopping, usually identified by a section title. As long as the reader knows who's-who, fine.

If it's separated by section, it's not really hopping, and that section might not even be omniscient.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Um. I do this all the time.

I didn't know there was a problem with it.

<shrug>

<back to writing>

 

[SimonDoom]

If it's separated by section, it's not really hopping, and that section might not even be omniscient.

The Game of Thrones novels are a perfect example of this. Third person limited omniscient, where each chapter focuses on a different main character and tells the story from that character's point of view.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I kind of like this idea for my own story problem. My only question is do your readers mention anything about it pulling them from the flow of the story?

Not yet. Each POV is probably what would be a Chapter in length and the next POV picks up the narrative almost from the point it left off. On some though I use the change in POV to advance the time frame.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

The Game of Thrones novels are a perfect example of this. Third person limited omniscient, where each chapter focuses on a different main character and tells the story from that character's point of view.

It has to be either one or the other. Game of Thrones has a third person narrator who isn't omniscient, which is an important distinction.

 

[Requiax]

Um. I do this all the time.

I didn't know there was a problem with it.

<shrug>

<back to writing>

I don’t think it’s a problem if it’s structured. As others have said, it’s just the “camera” following the action.

Where it goes wrong is where it’s obvious the author has lost track of whose perspective they are writing from in the middle of a chapter or scene...

...Which I did in my first book! Only once and in my defence it was on purpose!