Popular vote leans center left, electoral college leans center right?

[WillJ8787]

What's you opinion on the current general election system? Should it remain as is or is it time to move towards a popular vote?

Source:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...isconceptions-about-electoral-college/602596/

I've been leaning towards the popular vote for a while...it is increasing clear to me that their is continued evidence that Republicans have an advantage with the electoral college and can win elections while losing the popular vote by millions of votes is inherently unfair and favors Institutions over individual people.

 

[CornusKousa]

What's you opinion on the current general election system? Should it remain as is or is it time to move towards a popular vote?

Source:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...isconceptions-about-electoral-college/602596/

I've been leaning towards the popular vote for a while...it is increasing clear to me that their is continued evidence that Republicans have an advantage with the electoral college and can win elections while losing the popular vote by millions of votes is inherently unfair and favors Institutions over individual people.

It's supposed to.

The USA is a union of STATES, not a unitary state.

The states elect POTUS, not "the people". You get your democracy by popular vote at the state/local level. Not the federal level....and that's on purpose.

 

[Dribble]

Way past time to move on. The Electoral College is a leftover from an antiquated time 200 years ago...to equalize the influence of certain Southern States. Now, those same states have more power than population and economic factors dictate.


We also don't need 2 years of campaigning. We have immediate information and broadcasting capability. Furthermore, the SupremeCourt should not be lifetime positions...and the Americanpeople should have a vote in that process. In fact, most legislative decisions should be made by the people...and not lifelong politicians that only care about their welfare

 

[CornusKousa]

Way past time to move on. The Electoral College is a leftover from an antiquated time 200 years ago...to equalize the influence of certain Southern States. Now, those same states have more power than population and economic factors dictate.


We also don't need 2 years of campaigning. We have immediate information and broadcasting capability. Furthermore, the SupremeCourt should not be lifetime positions...and the Americanpeople should have a vote in that process. In fact, most legislative decisions should be made by the people...and not lifelong politicians that only care about their welfare

Effectively eliminating states, turning the US into a simple majority popular vote unitary state.

LOL....good luck getting 2/3 of congress or the states together on that.

 

[jaF0]

I've suggested a proportional assignment of the EC based on the PV. If a state's PV is split 51/49 for example, that state's EC would follow the same 51/49 split. I believe it's more fair than a 51% 'winner' getting 100% of the EC since that doesn't really represent the will of the state's voters. It more fairly balances the urban/rural divide.

Unfortunately in this case, it likely would have retained the Orange Fart.

The EC as it was originally intended to be a circuit breaker between the PV and election has failed. Had it worked, the Orange Fart would not have been seated in '16. He would have been rejected as unfit.

 

[horrorotic]

Both are fine with me, it shows people from both sides are sick of the extreme factions of their parties and their shit.

Center Left/Right means a good chance to for those people to see things from the other side and be able to compromise and get things done and cut down on all the hate and angst.

But what else needs to happen is the media needs to be held accountable for their constant hate mongering and fear mongering and for making their viewers think the insane minority of extremists on either side are everyone on that side.

 

[WillJ8787]

It's supposed to.

The USA is a union of STATES, not a unitary state.

The states elect POTUS, not "the people". You get your democracy by popular vote at the state/local level. Not the federal level....and that's on purpose.

And there in lies why you favor an authoritarian, neo-fascist "god-king" as you call it.

Potus is elected by the people to represent the people...as are all elected officials whether they be state officials or State(federal) officials. You have even confirmed this in past post, calling them "civil servants".

Potus serves us....all fifty states...the process for elections is currently representation...that does not have and should not have any affect on the actions of the office holder...to serve
the citizens they "represent".

 

[Wrong Element]

13 years ago:

The biggest flaw in the Constitution is the existence of the electoral college. I understand the reasons why it exists, but the bottom line is that any system that permits the guy who came in second to "win" is a flawed system.

 

[CornusKousa]

And there in lies why you favor an authoritarian, neo-fascist "god-king" as you call it.

Representative democracy isn't neo-fascism nor is an elected POTUS a "god-king".

Put the PCP down.

Potus is elected by the people to represent the people...as are all elected officials whether they be state officials or State(federal) officials. You have even confirmed this in past post, calling them "civil servants".

No, he's not, he's elected by the states to execute/enforce federal laws and represent the union of states internationally.

Your representatives are in the house.

Potus serves us....all fifty states...the process for elections is currently representation...that does not have and should not have any affect on the actions of the office holder...to serve
the citizens they "represent".

To a very limited extent.

No it shouldn't. But we've clearly passed that line.

Now it's a fight to bully the other side via Washington because mother fuckers can't mind their own god damn bidnizz.

You control freaks are MAD states exist and don't have to agree with your opinion on how THEY should live in their state.

 

[jaF0]

13 years ago:

And yet you still don't understand the concept. 'Second' doesn't mean what you think. Someone might get the most votes in each of 30 states or more but not the most votes nationwide. The populations of CA and NY each are greater that several other states put together. Under your notion of 'coming in second' why even have 50 states? Why not just roll the other 48 into CA and NY?

 

[jaF0]

I'm very much opposed to Harris and think she cost Joe a very large number of votes. I believe a VP from one of the flyover states would have led to a virtual runaway and we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.

I hate the policies of CA and did not want anyone from there in either of the two top national spots.

 

[WillJ8787]

Representative democracy isn't neo-fascism nor is an elected POTUS a "god-king".

Put the PCP down.
your misunderstanding runs deep...oh, well.



No, he's not, he's elected by the states to execute/enforce federal laws and represent the union of states internationally.

Your representatives are in the house.
All citizens vote for the President, House, Senate....yes, they do Represent us or there would be no need for a vote. All citizens also vote for their states elected officials so again they all represent us or or there would be no need for a vote.... which is the argument your pushing, no need for a vote, we(far Right Republicans who really are Fascists) will.just forcibly overturn what we don't like and create an authoritarian, totalitarian State/state.



To a very limited extent.

No it shouldn't. But we've clearly passed that line.

Now it's a fight to bully the other side via Washington because mother fuckers can't mind their own god damn bidnizz.

You control freaks are MAD states exist and don't have to agree with your opinion on how THEY should live in their state.

the vote is just what it is...the will of the people for the term.of the representation. We had 4 years of having to accept the will of the people via Trump and company. The people have decided that isn't the direction they though it was going to be and now the want to go in another direction. You can disagree and do all legal things to resist it. Calling for God/King's and forcible overturning of the vote is seditious and the move of Fascist traitors. Sorry, your one but it's your choice to or not to.

 

[Dribble]

And yet you still don't understand the concept. 'Second' doesn't mean what you think. Someone might get the most votes in each of 30 states or more but not the most votes nationwide. The populations of CA and NY each are greater that several other states put together. Under your notion of 'coming in second' why even have 50 states? Why not just roll the other 48 into CA and NY?

And you too do not understand. The Electoral College existed because of the fear the Southern States...the rich states...the powerful states...would have MORE say. Now, these states, are the POOREST, and less populated. Yet now, they have greater power. Should a state not be equally represented? That was the goal of the Electoral College. If a state has x number of people, shouldn't each person have the same representation as a state with less people? Why should Wyoming...a state with not even a half a million people in the entire state...get 3 votes and a state with a dozen cities over 500k people get only 10? We are supposed to be ONE country....not 50 States

 

[CornusKousa]

the vote is just what it is...the will of the people for the term.of the representation.

Ok so you don't understand the legal structures of how the USA works. Got it.

We had 4 years of having to accept the will of the people via Trump and company.

LOL you call that acceptance??

I only hope the RW has it in them to give Joe the same kind of acceptance.

The people have decided that isn't the direction they though it was going to be and now the will if for another direction. You can disagree and do all legal things to resist it.

No, the polarization is just leaning slightly further left in a few states.

In reality it's just a couple of tribes who wouldn't piss on each other to put out a fire are about to have a serious domestic disturbance.

Calling for God/King's and forcible overturning of the vote is seditious and the move of Fascist traitors. Sorry, your one but it's your choice to or not to.
[/B]

I'm not, you're just a liar.

Nobody is calling for god kings except progressives.

Overturning of the vote isn't seditious if it's done legally....it's called rule of law for a reason.

 

[CornusKousa]

We are supposed to be ONE country....not 50 States

According to who?

LOL Why does the Constitution explicitly state otherwise, repeatedly??

Why do the EC, senate and 10th amendment all exist??

Why are we called the United States of America instead of the Unified Peoples Republic Of America???

We were not nor have we ever been a unitary state. We're a union of 50 states.

Seriously...basic US History/Civics....5th grade level shit here.

 

[jaF0]

We are supposed to be ONE country....not 50 States

That's not entirely true. If it were, there would be no Governors or state legislatures. We are a coalition of states that are supposed to be working together for a common good while recognizing the rights and differences within each of those states.

.

 

[CornusKousa]

That's not entirely true. If it were, there would be no Governors or state legislatures. We are a coalition of states that are supposed to be working together for a common good while recognizing the rights and differences within each of those states.

.

BOOM!!!

Outside of some broad guidelines largely allowing people in California to live how Californians want to live....and Texans can live like Texas wants to live.

We've gotten away from that and it's causing problems.

1 size fits all micromanagement from the federal government just isn't going to work for all 330mil folks across the better part of a continent. It's just going to piss everyone off.

 

[WillJ8787]

Ok so you don't understand the legal structures of how the USA works. Got it.
chuckles....yes, after years of studying and a degree and then some, plus decades of keeping up on being informed....yes, I say I know it way better than a non-educated person who says the absurd stuff you say. I suggest you actually take a class in civics or go back to school.


LOL you call that acceptance??
yes, it was....are you conflating me with what? How other people accept it? See, this is what you and Icanhelp do...you conflate what I'm saying to you as an individual with something or someone else.


I only hope the RW has it in them to give Joe the same kind of acceptance.



No, the polarization is just leaning slightly further left in a few states.

In reality it's just a couple of tribes who wouldn't piss on each other to put out a fire are about to have a serious domestic disturbance.



I'm not, you're just a liar.

Nobody is calling for god kings except progressives.

Overturning of the vote isn't seditious if it's done legally....it's called rule of law for a reason.

a yes, another set of hidden rules that only far Right Fascist can use... alternative facts and rules... priceless!

 

[CornusKousa]

I suggest you actually take a class in civics or go back to school.

I'm not the one who needs to get a basic civics class in.

yes, it was....are you conflating me with what? How other people accept it? See, this is what you and Icanhelp do...you conflate what I'm saying to you as an individual with something or someone else.

If that's true, you were speaking as an individual, then who is "we"??

We had 4 years of having to accept the will of the people via Trump and company.

Since when was "we" individual?? LOL if you're going to try a lie try to one or two posts between it at least so I can't so easily go back and prove you a liar.

a yes, another set of hidden rules that only far Right Fascist can use... alternative facts and rules... priceless!

The law, which is public, is "hidden rules"??

LOL...****le of law is not fascist, no matter how many times you stamp your feet otherwise.

 

[WillJ8787]

I'm not the one who needs to get a basic civics class in.
whats you qualifications for speaking and speaking so poorly..."just another American who has seen too many cowboy movies..."



If that's true, you were speaking as an individual, then who is "we"??
I speak for myself here, they are my opinions nd thoughts. I stand with the 80plus million Americans who tolerated a President that I/we disagree with who then voted him out. In "a landslide" to quote the outgoing President.



Since when was "we" individual?? LOL if you're going to try a lie try to one or two posts between it at least so I can't so easily go back and prove you a liar.
nice straw man you've built here


The law, which is public, is "hidden rules"??

LOL...****le of law is not fascist, no matter how many times you stamp your feet otherwise.

you love to create these circular arguments. oh, well...others can read above for themselves. Yes, the law is law and I'm fully in support of it, the voting process as is even though I have my disaggrements about it...I not seeking to forcible overthrow it as you have said you would like to see happen; suggested, hinted at and have consistently and circularly argued for...and you consistently, circularly deny your belief's are not illegal and traitorous. Oh, well...the law is the law and wrong is wrong.

 

[CornusKousa]

you love to create these circular arguments. oh, well...others can read above for themselves.

No circles or strawmen, you got busted lying, if you weren't able to own up to it then you should have just left it alone.

Yea they can, claim you speak for yourself all you want, you posted "we" and you can't explain who "we" as an individual is.

I not seeking to forcible overthrow it as you have said you would like to see happen; suggested, hinted at and have consistently and circularly argued for...and you consistently, circularly deny your belief's are not illegal and traitorous. Oh, well...the law is the law and wrong is wrong.

Speaking of "speaking poorly"

Your fantasies aren't my beliefs.

Nothing illegal and traitorous about defending the Constitution, especially from collectivist, liberty loathing scum like "progressives".

 

[Dribble]

My dog just took a healthy shit in the yard. What a steaming pile out there in the snow. Yet...it took more brains than our Fascist traitor has. My dog knew to tell me...dude I need to go outside. Botbo...just shits where he sits typing away endlessly

 

[CornusKousa]

My dog just took a healthy shit in the yard. What a steaming pile out there in the snow. Yet...it took more brains than our Fascist traitor has. My dog knew to tell me...dude I need to go outside. Botbo...just shits where he sits typing away endlessly

Dribble has fantasies about me shitting because it can't actually argue it's claims of fascism on their merit.

It doesn't even know what fascism is.

 

[YDB95]

I'm very much opposed to Harris and think she cost Joe a very large number of votes. I believe a VP from one of the flyover states would have led to a virtual runaway and we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.

That's a very common argument, but when is the last time that actually worked?
2016: Both VP nominees were from regions that generally favoured the other party, but states that favoured their party. Kaine didn't help Clinton a bit in the South outside of Virginia, which she likely would have carried anyway. Trump did indeed do better than expected in the Great Lakes region, but I don't know anyone who thinks it's because of Pence.

2012: The Republicans did essentially what you're proposing here, and they lost all the Midwestern states they usually lose, including Ryan's own Wisconsin.

2008: Both VP nominees were from states that were completely safe for their respective parties, much like this year.

2004: Dems tried what you're suggesting, only it was the South rather than the Midwest, and it didn't work at all.

Now, I don't know exactly how you define "flyover country" - sometimes it means everything between Pittsburgh and Las Vegas, sometimes it's just the corn belt - but regardless, the Dems did carry eight states in the Midwest and West plus Nebraska's second district. Among the ones they lost, only two - Iowa and Ohio - have been competitive at any time recently, and both of those have been trending away from the Dems lately. Where else would you expect them to pick up votes? There are nine states that haven't gone blue since 1964, and all but one of them (Alaska) are in the region you're referring to. That wasn't going to change if, say, Amy Kobuchar had been on the ticket. (Don't forget, she pretty much based her own presidential campaign on "I'm from the Midwest" and it got her nowhere.)

 

[Liar]

You get your democracy by popular vote at the state/local level.

https://media.tenor.com/images/8f243acecdf3a4163a4c76bb294be15a/tenor.gif