Pope to Resign on February 28th

[3113]

As you may have heard, Pope Benedict (85) feels he's too old and such to continue and is going to resign. This may or may not matter to anyone here personally, but I find it interesting in it's uniqueness. The last pope to resign was Pope Gregory XII in 1415.

So Benedict is the first Pope to do this in 600 years.

 

[PennLady]

I find it interesting too. I was raised Catholic, but I haven't gone to church in years. I have had my kids baptized, but we do not attend church nor do I send them to Catholic school or CCD. I have various issues, but for this perhaps the biggest one is that I have lost any trust for the institution.

Anyway, back on topic, I am curious to see how this all plays out. I've read that there will be/is some pressure for a non-European Pope, although I don't know how likely that is.

And Pope Gregory resigned (as all the reports say) in an effort to resolve a schism, so the circumstances are different in addition to the times.

 

[Hosebloke]

Maybe he's going to avoid something that's about to break, maybe from his past. Only guessing

 

[PennLady]

Maybe he's going to avoid something that's about to break, maybe from his past. Only guessing

Quite possibly, but even so, public opinion can't push the Pope out of office. I wonder if he can be impeached, or if there's some sort of equivalent of that should some potentially scandalous revelation be made. I was raised Catholic, as I said, and studied a little Church history, but I never heard of such a thing.

It also could be that he is indeed 85 years old and realizes he's physically incapable of handling the duties of the office properly.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

I wish more people in power would resign when they have become to old to adequately fulfill the duties of their office. I'm not saying all old people are feeble, but really, look at some of the fossils who are routinely re-elected to Congress and the Senate, despite having to be wheeled in and awakened before votes on bills they have neither read nor have the capability of comprehending. This isn't a party issue--both sides do it, although for the next eight years it is going to happen more often on the republican side due to having more safe seats after 2010 gerrymandering.

 

[ameliajax]

I had not heard this! Very interesting. Especially coming from him. Maybe he found out he is really sick? I mean, Pope JPII hung in there until every appearance he made looked like Weekend at Bernies .... and obviously, until he died.

 

[oggbashan]

Quite possibly, but even so, public opinion can't push the Pope out of office. I wonder if he can be impeached, or if there's some sort of equivalent of that should some potentially scandalous revelation be made. I was raised Catholic, as I said, and studied a little Church history, but I never heard of such a thing.

It also could be that he is indeed 85 years old and realizes he's physically incapable of handling the duties of the office properly.

The usual way of becoming an ex-Pope is to die, but several Popes have been ineffective in their later years.

If he is in poor health, resigning is a sensible action. The Pope is expected to travel extensively.

Previous Papal elections have had to be arranged hurriedly whenever a Pope has died. At least the next one will happen with prior notice.

I wonder if there is a preferred candidate? The usual practice seems to be to elect someone with the fewest enemies and therefore the least decisive. The Catholic Church could do with a Pope who could recognise that this is the 21st Century and the Church needs to adapt its message.

 

[3113]

I wonder if he can be impeached.

Apparently Papal law states that a pope can be removed from the church and "fired" from papacy--but I doubt a church scandal, however huge, would result in that. The upper echelons of the Catholic Church, historically speaking, are more likely to close ranks, refute the scandal and protect the bishop, cardinal or pope in question.

I kind of imagine that if/when it came to firing a Pope, there would have to be some kind of internal dispute rather than public scandal. The Cardinals and such would all have to really feel the Pope wasn't doing his job--or they really disliked or violently disagreed with where he was taking the church, enough to get a quorum to oust him.

Edited to add: I don't think that is the case here. I really doubt either public scandal or private pressure is behind this resignation. I suspect that, yes, Benedict is feeling old and tired, and likely the headaches facing the church during his time haven't helped. I don't mean just the scandals and payouts over the priests, but the changing views of the 21st century which have put him at odds with most modern Catholics as well as non-Catholics (aka: issues over gays, condoms, etc.). I'm sure he still believes in the positions he asserted from the start, but he probably feels he's not young, healthy or modern-thinking enough to fight these battles.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Maybe he's going to avoid something that's about to break, maybe from his past. Only guessing

That he's a nazi sympathizing, homophobic, misogynistic, pedophile protecting, bigot has already come out. What else could there be? Hell, to most of the red beanie crowd, those are all good things.

Maybe it will come out that he DIDN'T protect a pedophile priest or treat a member of the LGBT community or a woman like shit. That would be grounds for him leaving to most of them... if not stoning.

 

[Safe_Bet]

The usual way of becoming an ex-Pope is to die....

or to be "die"ed...

Crazy, screwed up popes seem to have a pretty short life span.

 

[mynameisben]

You heard it here first

If, during the Pope's resignation address, he utters the words, "I am not a crook," I shall be among the first to raise a wary eyebrow.

 

[sr71plt]

As I understand it, Popes are supposed to have the job for life. This one's life has been tinged with controversy stemming from WWII, and I think there's probably enough underlining scandal that this is just an "under-the-carpet" maneuver to get him out of there before it all explodes in their faces. The usual Catholic church "cover the asses of the old boys" maneuver.

 

[PennLady]

The usual way of becoming an ex-Pope is to die, but several Popes have been ineffective in their later years.

As I recall, the topic of resignation came up under JPII, but he did not. One wonders if he should have, since at the end he was obviously in poor health. I can only think that the conclave called after his death was hardly a surprise.

I wonder if there is a preferred candidate? The usual practice seems to be to elect someone with the fewest enemies and therefore the least decisive. The Catholic Church could do with a Pope who could recognise that this is the 21st Century and the Church needs to adapt its message.

I was reading that there is some pressure to choose a non-European Pope, and the following link contains some possible candidates, both European and not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/pope-succession-candidates/?hpid=z3

 

[Neonurotic]

Anyway, back on topic, I am curious to see how this all plays out. I've read that there will be/is some pressure for a non-European Pope, although I don't know how likely that is.

I've read that also about being a non-European Pope. I predict Latin America where Catholicism is predominant.

 

[lovecraft68]

He's calling it quits before it comes to light he made a fortune in the wig industry in Nazi Germany and diddled young Jewish boys while their parents were in line in the death camps

Good riddance to this piece of shit.

A disgrace even to the most disgraceful religion ever founded.

He'll be shaking hands with Paterno and Sandusky in hell soon enough.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Just where a friend of mine was talking about "Ratzingers leaving a sinking ship".

I thought that was funny as hell.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Just where a friend of mine was talking about "Ratzingers leaving a sinking ship".

I thought that was funny as hell.

"The Pope is going on hollandaise: ex Benedict."

 

[Bramblethorn]

As I understand it, Popes are supposed to have the job for life. This one's life has been tinged with controversy stemming from WWII, and I think there's probably enough underlining scandal that this is just an "under-the-carpet" maneuver to get him out of there before it all explodes in their faces. The usual Catholic church "cover the asses of the old boys" maneuver.

I don't think the WWII stuff was a big liability. Christian doctrine starts on the premise that everybody is a sinner and needs God's help to get past that. Most branches (Catholicism included) love a good redemption narrative - just look at Paul. The spin is not "Pope was in the Hitlerjugend" but "if God can redeem an ex-HJ, think what he can do for you!"

His later record on child abuse was far more damaging.

 

[carlieplum]

I would second the bet on non-European. They tend to swing to whatever they didn't have last.

JPII--Young, open-minded to ecumenical dialog, not an ex-Nazi.
Benedict--Old, inward focused, ex-Nazi.

So I would bet on a Latin American (or other non-Caucasian) younger pope.

Just out of curiosity, I googled murdered popes. Dangerous line of work, that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_murdered_popes

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Considering how he's packed the curia with arch-orthodox fellow travelers, any change in Vatican policy is unlikely in the extreme, no matter who they elect. Another John XXIII is, sadly, not going to happen again in my lifetime.

 

[glynndah]

I can't help feeling he's resigning so he can have a voice in choosing his successor.

 

[oggbashan]

I can't help feeling he's resigning so he can have a voice in choosing his successor.

Possibly true.

He set the record for the last couple of hundred years for oldest person made Pope. He was expected to be a short-term Pope, a compromise candidate.

But setting another precedent by standing down while still alive is probably a good idea. The latter years of many Popes have been periods of stagnation because of the incumbent's frailty.

 

[colddiesel]

JPII--Young, open-minded to ecumenical dialog, not an ex-Nazi.
Benedict--Old, inward focused, ex-Nazi.

JPII was young, and anti communist even more than anti nazi.

He was not in any way open minded but was deeply conservative. Essentially Benedict's papacy was a continuation of his theology but without JPII's charisma.

Benedict owed most of his career to promotion by JPII. Both in history will go down as grossly over-rated.

As VM suggested, John XXIII was probably not only the greatest 20th century Pope, but arguably the only one.

Personally, I'm not sure that we need an effective Pope or a man more attuned with the times. I'm quite happy to see all churches muddle their way to irrelevance and eventual oblivion, with inadequate leaders showing the way.

 

[Handley_Page]

Given that the last time there was a resignation (Gregory 12) it was cause d by the problems of having Two popes (Benedict 8 was in Avignon) because the Cardinal could not agree and there was no single place for the Pope to call "home", this resignation is apparently very up to date.

 

[colddiesel]

Given that the last time there was a resignation (Gregory 12) it was cause d by the problems of having Two popes (Benedict 8 was in Avignon) because the Cardinal could not agree and there was no single place for the Pope to call "home", this resignation is apparently very up to date.

You got it two thirds right: in fact there were three, one Pope and two anti Popes. The French King called the shots so Benny 8 got the gig.

The Roman and Pisan applicants lost out.

What did you mean by " because the Cardinal could not agree?"