Polyrelationship troubles...

[shahla_rose]

As I go forth in the relationship that I am in I keep hitting brick walls. The other submissive in the relationship is one of the most self centered people that I have ever met. She tends to go to bed prior to myself and Sir. This had not been a problem till recently. Now anytime we go to bed she freaks out that we woke her. Understand this is not the intent and we go as quietly as possible. Yet she has stated that only one of us can come to bed at night not both because it is two that keep waking her up. So now I am banished to the couch. It hurts to know that I mean so little to him that he is OK with the fact that I am sleeping on the sofa... So I have asked that we clean out the extra room in out apartment and set up the extra bed that I have so that I have a comfortable place to sleep VS sleeping on the very uncomfortable sofa we have.... Yet he wont let me do it. So what is the proper way to ask and get through what I want and hopefully get it.

 

[ataxia.girl]

As I go forth in the relationship that I am in I keep hitting brick walls. The other submissive in the relationship is one of the most self centered people that I have ever met. She tends to go to bed prior to myself and Sir. This had not been a problem till recently. Now anytime we go to bed she freaks out that we woke her. Understand this is not the intent and we go as quietly as possible. Yet she has stated that only one of us can come to bed at night not both because it is two that keep waking her up. So now I am banished to the couch. It hurts to know that I mean so little to him that he is OK with the fact that I am sleeping on the sofa... So I have asked that we clean out the extra room in out apartment and set up the extra bed that I have so that I have a comfortable place to sleep VS sleeping on the very uncomfortable sofa we have.... Yet he wont let me do it. So what is the proper way to ask and get through what I want and hopefully get it.

um.... that sucks.

 

[kinkyknickers]

Sounds like your problem isn't with the couch, but with your communication. In any realtionship you have to communicate, in a poly one it is do or die. If you haven't been talking about your problems with BOTH of your partners then you should start.
If they aren't listening to you, then, well, what do you expect in the future.
You are in a relationship with your sister sub as well as your master, so make sure that any issue she is involved with, she gets kept in the picture.
Being in a poly relationship, I can honestly say that our biggest issues (in my opinion) have been communication and equality. So you're not alone, it just depends whether you choose to be proactive about it and do something or just keep playing poor me.
Good luck with that one.

 

[WickedEve]

Relationships are relationships, whether it's bdsm, poly, whatever. Just don't be too submissive that you don't speak up. Ask for a time to sit down with both of them and have a discussion. Just keep a cool head and decide on what you want and come up with some solutions before you talk with them.

 

[Breaker_Morant]

Usually in a poly relationship where there are two subs, there is an Alpha and then a Beta. The Alpha gets the preferential treatment. If she's supposed to be the Beta then she is challanging your status. If you're the Beta you should be able to expect some sort of consideration. If you don't stand up for yourself on this issue, you'll just continued to be trampled on. At least that is my opinion.

 

[rinka]

Maybe you can try to do one thing differently. For example go to bed before her and see what happens. Or go to bed after her but before your Sir. She's not likely to throw him out to sleep on the couch is she?

Give her a nicely wrapped parcel with a sleeping mask and earplugs.

This whole conflict is obviously not about being woken up. It never is to this extent. By changing the pattern maybe the real issue will become more apparent and hopefully possible to address.

 

[myinnerslut]

wow, if viv or i pulled that it would NOT be pretty.

we really dont go for the whole alpha/beta thing, so if thats your issue i cant help you there but mabye these suggestions can help with the communication.

1- don't assume people know how you feel. you have to tell them somehow. (which is sounds like you did with the spare bedroom thing)
2- try writing a letter, sometimes writing is easier then speaking
3- ask to have a family meeting and ask to speak openly
4- propose switching off who sleeps on the couch. she'll likely not go for it, but mabye it wil show her for being selfish.
5- talk to your dom one on one and tell him exactly how you are feeling, not just that the couch is uncomfortable
6-rinka had a great idea with the sleeping masks and the earplugs

 

[catalina_francisco]

Granted, I am the last person to ask about poly as I find it is the rare one which doesn't involve friction, often with one person trying to prove they are more valued than another, usually by manipulative and under handed means to protect their image....all more than I have the energy or desire to include in my life.

From what you have presented for public input, I would say what is going on has nothing to do with who goes to bed where and when, and everything to do with 2 submissives trying to deal with their insecurities with the arrangement, and gain the upper hand by whatever means possible. There are 3 people in the relationship, 2 of them supposedly submissive, and yet it seems both submissives are doing all the directing and plotting of how things are going to be, and having their needs met above those of the PYL. If you are in a poly relationship, it is an issue which needs discussing between all involved, not her ordering you both about, and you coming to a group of anonymous people on a public forum for tips on how you can get your own way, by your own admission against the wishes of your PYL....perhaps a good discussion point for him to introduce would be the roles of the submissives, and what submission means, otherwise he is going to find himself very quickly being the controlled one in the relationship, or alone.

Catalina

 

[myinnerslut]

Usually in a poly relationship where there are two subs, there is an Alpha and then a Beta. The Alpha gets the preferential treatment. If she's supposed to be the Beta then she is challanging your status. If you're the Beta you should be able to expect some sort of consideration. If you don't stand up for yourself on this issue, you'll just continued to be trampled on. At least that is my opinion.

eh, the alpha beta thing in overrated in my opinion. it's a recipe for hurting somebody's feelings

 

[Breaker_Morant]

eh, the alpha beta thing in overrated in my opinion. it's a recipe for hurting somebody's feelings

Possibly, probably, maybe. Depends on the people involved and their personalities. The Alpha could be a switch that subs to men but tops other women.

 

[myinnerslut]

Possibly, probably, maybe. Depends on the people involved and their personalities. The Alpha could be a switch that subs to men but tops other women.

i still think it overcomplicates and causes issues, but thats just me. whats wrong with a dom, a switch and a sub being in a relationship, doing thier thing, and not adding MORE lables to it, not to mention lables that carry an expectation of service and the amount of attention one recieves. not that we dont have enough lables already right? lets see... im bi, a slave, poly. gimme any more lables and i may start forgetting the onles i have already

to each their own.

sorry to the OP for the hijack

 

[intothewoods]

Possibly, probably, maybe. Depends on the people involved and their personalities. The Alpha could be a switch that subs to men but tops other women.

You see a lot of this on CM if you read the profiles, but I only know a handful of poly people who have this setup.

 

[Primalex]

Ask if you two can rotate sleeping on the sofa.
If he denies this, ask if you two are equal subs or if she is now his preferred sub.

If he states that you are equal, express that you are glad to hear this.
If he states that the other one is the main sub from now on, you will have to decide if you want to stick with him or not. The same is true if you don't see any improvement over time.

Poly relationships require a lot of effort and not every combination will succeed. The average male human already has trouble to balance his ego and his relationship. Adding another relationship to this is something that is not easily handled. This is why I always tell new subs that they will be just a beta (or even gamma). This will keep the maintenance low (at the price that I don't always have two subs when I want, because of the high fluctuation). If they are into this kind of humiliation, this will usually work. If they are not, they hopefully realize this early, but I told them in the beginning at least.

Anyway, back to the topic. You can try to communicate your issues, but I wouldn't get the hopes up. For me it looks like your Dom is already overchallenged. There are issues that you can't control and prevent at all and where you can only react as a Dom when they arise and then there are issues that should never ever arise. This here belongs to me to the latter group, which can only be cured over time and with more experience as Dom. You need to decide if it's worth your time to wait for this to happen.

 

[serijules]

Usually in a poly relationship where there are two subs, there is an Alpha and then a Beta. The Alpha gets the preferential treatment. If she's supposed to be the Beta then she is challanging your status. If you're the Beta you should be able to expect some sort of consideration. If you don't stand up for yourself on this issue, you'll just continued to be trampled on. At least that is my opinion.

This is in my opinion a red flag. I don't think I've ever seen a poly relationship with these dynamics that works even a little bit. It sounds more like a dog pack than a human relationship. It simply completely goes against everything about poly that makes it actually work.

So "usually" is not accurate. I would say it's rarely found in HEALTHY, working poly relationships.

 

[serijules]

Back to the topic at hand...

Allowing ANYONE in a poly setup to act the way this other sub is acting and I would go so far as to say the D/s elements of this relationship are non-existent at this point in time.

Being submissive is great and all, but there comes a time when you have to stand up for yourself and say "hey, this is not working, it's not right and something needs to change". Does your dominant have a reason why you can't set up a bed in the bedroom? Why isn't SHE told to sleep on the couch if she has such issues with being woken up? These are things that need to be asked, they have little to do with D/s and everything to do with maintaining a healthy relationship.

 

[Happily_Variant]

This appears to be a passive challenge for dominance on the part of the other sub. In a sense, she appears to be executing control over who occupies the bed with her, passively using the issue of awakening her, with Sir following her lead. An open, honest discussion of what constitutes the dynamics of the 3x relationship is good advice as previously suggested.

 

[twysted73]

This appears to be a passive challenge for dominance on the part of the other sub. In a sense, she appears to be executing control over who occupies the bed with her, passively using the issue of awakening her, with Sir following her lead. An open, honest discussion of what constitutes the dynamics of the 3x relationship is good advice as previously suggested.

Hear hear....well done.

Maybe you can try to do one thing differently. For example go to bed before her and see what happens. Or go to bed after her but before your Sir. She's not likely to throw him out to sleep on the couch is she?

Give her a nicely wrapped parcel with a sleeping mask and earplugs.

This whole conflict is obviously not about being woken up. It never is to this extent. By changing the pattern maybe the real issue will become more apparent and hopefully possible to address.

Impressively put. I am effected by this. Deeply. I applaud your approach.

 

[the captians wench]

So "usually" is not accurate. I would say it's rarely found in HEALTHY, working poly relationships.

I think this is dead on. I think a lot of people believe the Alpha Beta Zeta thing is how it has to be, they can't imagine a different way. But from my experience, this doesn't work.

I was the "alpha" in one of these types of arrangements, but I'm not an alpha personality. So my lil sis was challenging me all of the time for the higher position. This was not how the (suposed) domly type in the arrangment wanted it, but he warned me that he would allow her the top position if I was not strong enough to keep it. That situation was excaped from very shortly after that.

I've tried being on a somewhat more equal playing field as well, but seeing as Jounar is always my priority I could not ask to be a priority above any one else, nor would I have wanted that in the situation I was in. Eventually it was determined that it just wasn't a good fit and it too was dismantled.

It really does come down to securities, and the only reason why the latter of my two examples worked for as long as it did was because we all expressed our insecurities with the group in a verbal way. But some people are just not capible of doing that.

While my first instinct would be to do as miss r said above, the healthier thing to do, I think would be to have a group pow-wow about the whole thing and get out what the real issue is. Maybe she feels like she's not getting enough of his attention. This should be delt with in a way that doesn't make you feel like you're getting less attention.

 

[Homburg]

(Tried posting this earlier, but had network issues)

Granted, I am the last person to ask about poly as I find it is the rare one which doesn't involve friction, often with one person trying to prove they are more valued than another, usually by manipulative and under handed means to protect their image....all more than I have the energy or desire to include in my life.

From what you have presented for public input, I would say what is going on has nothing to do with who goes to bed where and when, and everything to do with 2 submissives trying to deal with their insecurities with the arrangement, and gain the upper hand by whatever means possible. There are 3 people in the relationship, 2 of them supposedly submissive, and yet it seems both submissives are doing all the directing and plotting of how things are going to be, and having their needs met above those of the PYL. If you are in a poly relationship, it is an issue which needs discussing between all involved, not her ordering you both about, and you coming to a group of anonymous people on a public forum for tips on how you can get your own way, by your own admission against the wishes of your PYL....perhaps a good discussion point for him to introduce would be the roles of the submissives, and what submission means, otherwise he is going to find himself very quickly being the controlled one in the relationship, or alone.

Catalina

Cat, you might want to sit down for this, but you've posted in a poly thread and I agree completely with what you've said (aside from the not having the energy" part, of course).

In my eyes, the other sub in this relationship is being explicitly manipulative. I am in no way being ur-hetero-bigballs-Dom when I say that there is no way in hell that I would tip toe around because my submissive didn't want to be woken up. Likewise, there is no way in hell that I would accept having terms dictated to me like "only one of you may come to bed". Who is in charge here anyway?

The other girl in this triangle is playing a game, and the D here is letting himself be played. Somebody needs to be put back in her place. I'd put her in the spare bedroom until she learned a better sense of decorum, but that particular piece of advice is not useful to you here. What is useful, is the advice given by folks here to communicate. Nothing else has a chance of solving your problem.

--

You see a lot of this on CM if you read the profiles, but I only know a handful of poly people who have this setup.

Yep, same experience here. When I see that alpha/beta stuff, I usually have my suspiscions. It's more plausible in gorean and leather households, but outside that, nope, and, from what I recall, they use different terms in those arrangements (such as "first in chain, second in chain" in gorean households)

 

[Netzach]

i still think it overcomplicates and causes issues, but thats just me. whats wrong with a dom, a switch and a sub being in a relationship, doing thier thing, and not adding MORE lables to it, not to mention lables that carry an expectation of service and the amount of attention one recieves. not that we dont have enough lables already right? lets see... im bi, a slave, poly. gimme any more lables and i may start forgetting the onles i have already

to each their own.

sorry to the OP for the hijack

I agree. I think it's setting people up for failure to say "you'll never be as important to me as the other person" - I have clear boundaries in my relationship, but they're ones of "this person does this, this person does this, this person does THIS - so you're all important, and no one does the other guy's job."

Inasmuch as everyone can identify and accepts his role and I mine, it's good. Being the third person involved with someone doesn't have to be a humiliation head trip. I have much better ones than that for H.

 

[Netzach]

Back to the topic at hand...

Allowing ANYONE in a poly setup to act the way this other sub is acting and I would go so far as to say the D/s elements of this relationship are non-existent at this point in time.

ding ding ding, winner.

That he's letting this go on, says it all. The prima donna would be sleeping on the floor. They'd be sharing the bed and I'd be in the other room.

 

[BiBunny]

ding ding ding, winner.

That he's letting this go on, says it all. The prima donna would be sleeping on the floor. They'd be sharing the bed and I'd be in the other room.

YES. I agree with Netz and Cat here. Both folks are being insecure, but it sounds like you may have a reason to be. If "Master, I can't give you a blowjob today because sleeping on the damned couch makes my neck hurt too badly to move my head" (or other reasonable communication of the problem) doesn't make him take steps to try to fix things, then I'd find a new Master and let them do what they wanted to with the damned bed.

The upside of this is that if she "wins" on this issue, she'll be whining that she can't sleep when he's in the bed, either, so he'll be on the couch himself before long. If you can't control one sub, what in the hell are you doing with two?

Also, on the Alpha/Beta thing, I'd say it's generally bullshit. Like Netz said, it's, in essence, telling one sub he/she is more important than the other, which, to me, sets the entire relationship up for failure. It may work if the relationship isn't the main one for the "beta" person, but other than that, I really don't see it.

Plus, you don't even have to have that type of arrangement to be a switch who's a slave. Everybody does it differently. *Shrug*

 

[shahla_rose]

Maybe you can try to do one thing differently. For example go to bed before her and see what happens. Or go to bed after her but before your Sir. She's not likely to throw him out to sleep on the couch is she?

Give her a nicely wrapped parcel with a sleeping mask and earplugs.

This whole conflict is obviously not about being woken up. It never is to this extent. By changing the pattern maybe the real issue will become more apparent and hopefully possible to address.

She is likely to throw him out. She has tried it when I have either gone to bed with her or before him.

I can't stand the idea of him on the couch which leads me to getting up and going to the couch

 

[Homburg]

She is likely to throw him out. She has tried it when I have either gone to bed with her or before him.

So, who's the dominant there?

 

[SweetErika]

So, who's the dominant there?

Really!

If we couldn't work it out with earplugs and a mask or something simple like that, I'd either have the problematic sub sleep in another room, or alternate who slept in my bed with me.

How about suggesting alternating or similar, shahla? Also, has your Dom said why setting up the spare bed isn't a possibility?