Poly & BDSM or can a sub have two Masters?

[rida]

I am trying to make same clarity of what is going on inside my mind, so I have a question for you SENPAI (more expert) out there.

Poly & BDSM or can a sub have two Masters?

I always knew I am wired for poly. Didn't fully accept it/embrace it until recently. Another thing that I always have been but have truly accepted and embraced only recently is that I am a sub, of the sextoy/slut variety that love bondage and mental power exchange.

I am very lucky in that my Hubby is the one that realized my sub tendencies and his own Dom ones and have introduced me/us to a D/s dynamic in the bedroom area. After my initial reluctancy, I am now the one that is fully exploring the lifestyle. Hubby is very understanding and has given me permission to explore my submissiveness with other Doms, if so I wish, as he sees that I need something that he cannot give me right now .

As I am really new to all this, I am just dipping my toes, and starting with on-line.

Knowing myself, I do not care for casual relationship. I want/need a deep connection. That means that if I get involved with another Dom, whether on-line or in real life, I will be totally emotionally invested, and probably deeply in love with this new person as well.

My question is: do you think that is possible to be a sub to two Masters?　If not, why? And if yes, under what conditions? Would it work only if one of the Master is a switch and sub to the Main Master?

What I would like to hear are opinion from both sides, Dom and sub; both general opinions and specific experiences will be greatly appreciated.

thank you

rida

 

[BiBunny]

I think it could work. It's one of those things that would be very, very difficult, though. I think it'd have to be a collaborative effort between the two dominants, otherwise I can see Dom(me) #1 telling the sub to do something, and Dom(me) #2 telling the sub to do something that's at odds with what #1 asked. It could turn into a "who will the sub obey more?" really quickly, I bet.

The two-dominants-one-submissive model tends to work best when it's a dominant couple owning a submissive, I think, but it doesn't HAVE to be that way. I don't think one of the dominants would necessarily need to be a switch who submits to the other dominant. In fact, I think that would make things more difficult, as it would introduce even more power dynamics into the equation.

Like any poly relationship, it would require way more trust, communication, and honesty than the average person is capable of.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Having been in that situation, I have to agree with Bunny.

The two Dominants will HAVE to cooperate. Or there will come a time where the sub will have to choose one or the other. In my case, though the slave was my slave and served me, she was the other Dom's wife. She served me with his knowledge and blessing. But I always knew that if push came to shove, _I_ would go the curb. Because _he_ was where she was going to sleep at night, live her life with, etc.

I knew I would always remain the less important of the 2 men in her life and that was okay with me at that time. That relationship was a valuable, important part of my learning curve as a man, Dominant, and Master.

CAN you serve two Masters. Possibly. Is it a good idea? Possibly. Always know where your PRIMARY relationship lies, where you PRIMARY loyalty lies, and keep that knowledge clear in your mind and with all parties involved. If it ever becomes questionable, the trouble will start almost immediately.

 

[SweetErika]

Ditto to Bunny's (ETA: And Geoff's!) advice.

If your hubby is only dominant in the bedroom, I can see where it'd be easier for you to have another Dominant.

I'd suggest talking to your husband about what you two would want it to look like, so you can find someone who will work within those parameters. For example, you may want to find someone who agrees whatever you do when you're with your husband goes, and your husband is able to like, respect and communicate with. Maybe your new Dominant would control certain choices you make (e.g. clothing, dietary, masturbation) while your husband would continue to exert control in the bedroom, and even help ensure your new Dom's orders are carried out at home/on a daily basis, take pictures if your other Dom required them, administer discipline, etc. (co-topping/domming).

That's just a quick idea of how I could see it realistically working; I'm sure you get my drift and can (along with your hubby) think of lots of ways to make it work with your specific needs and wants.

I'm not sure I can see someone having two Masters. Master/slave is different from Dom/sub in that I usually think of it as the Master having the final say on EVERYTHING, apart from when the relationship ends. In my mind, D/s usually allows for more limits, compromise, etc. I can see where a slave having two Masters would likely be a recipe for disaster because it's unlikely they'd always agree on everything and someone needs to have the final say, but a sub having two Doms could certainly work, IMO.

Master vs. Dom is a matter of semantics, to be sure, but an important distinction to some, so you may want to use the specific term that best fits what you want when you're out there looking.

This is very interesting, and I hope you'll keep us updated on how everything works for you over time.

 

[DeservingBitch]

I have never been in a D/s poly situation like the one you describe, but I have been in poly relationships without the D/s aspect involved. So take what you want from what I have to say.

In my experience, while my primary and secondary partners know each other and sometime interact with one another when we are all at a same social outing, I mostly deal with each relationship as separate ones. Which is to say that I clarify and negociate with each partners what is OK, what they are comfortable with, what the limits and boundaries are, what needs they have, etc. Then, I see it as my responsability to make sure that each one of them feel respected and have their respective needs met in their relationship with me. I don't think I would proceed much differently if the D/s aspect was included.

So, from my perspective, I don't think that the two dominants necessarily need to cooperate with one another beyond respecting pre-negociated and agreed upon limits and boundaries.

But yes, as it has been said already, a lot of work, open communication, trust and honesty is needed to make it work. And like most relationship, poly or not, it's sometime a pain in the ass.

 

[rida]

Thank you very much for your comments. I am somewhat relieved to see that it seems possible, even if it might involve a lot of work.

The "who will the sub obey more" issue is the one I can see arising very easily and very fast. And thus I believe it should be addressed prior to enter any commitment. I am sure that there still will be unforseen developments and situation, but with some predetermined guideline hopefully they can be worked around.

In my specific case , right now, it would be much like in Evil_Geoff's experience as in the fact that the primary Dom will be Hubby. since I live with him and the secondary Dom would probably not have any r/l contact for the time being.

I see that most of you, BiBunny, Evil_Geoff, SweetErika, agree that the two Dominant need to cooperate with each other. Do you mean that they need to develop a relationship on their own (friendship or whatever) and have an ongoing line of communication between each other, beside the original discussion of limits and boundaries?

DeservingBitch you see no "need for the two Dom to cooperate beyond respecting pre-negotiated and agreed upon limits", and that in your specific non D/s poly, you negotiate separately with each of your partners. Right now I see myself walking down this same path, with me negotiating separately. However, don't you think that if the D/s element is included, keeping the two relationship completely separate could create complication as the two Dom would feel somewhat as if they do not have real control?

And thank you SweetErika to point out the semantic of Dom vs Master. I do tend to use them interchangebly, but I guess I should be more careful.

 

[SweetErika]

I see that most of you, BiBunny, Evil_Geoff, SweetErika, agree that the two Dominant need to cooperate with each other. Do you mean that they need to develop a relationship on their own (friendship or whatever) and have an ongoing line of communication between each other, beside the original discussion of limits and boundaries?

I'm just incorporating D/s into my poly-life, and I'm a Dominant, so take this as you will.

It is my experience that poly goes more smoothly for me/us (and, like you, I want relationships on the deeper, more committed side of the spectrum) when everyone likes, respects each other and is able to communicate well. For me, that means I don't pursue anyone who can't have at least a casual friendship and communicate with my husband. He hasn't had other relationships, but when he does, I'll expect the same with his partners.

No one needs to be 'bestest' friends, but having a friendship has increased understanding, communication, and made everyone more comfortable in general for us in the past. And, really, I like for there to be a possibility of doing things together on occasion (for instance, we spent time together socially and had great fun with threesomes with my partner/his friend in the past because they were both so comfy with each other; I'm not seeking that specifically again, but it's lovely to have all of that mutual like and comfort, and the option if the mood strikes everyone!). Mutual friendship can enhance the whole relationship, making it feel even smoother and more natural, and I think it'd be awesome to have that along with the D/s dynamic, too. So, we do look for people who are compatible with us as a couple, rather than people who are only friendly and communicative with one of us -- even when there's no intention for the primary and secondary to have a deep friendship or become romantically involved, and we really value the ability to have privacy in our other relationship.

And, I can see where that would be even more valuable for us in a two Doms situation, or another that had the potential for conflicting orders, schedules, goals, etc.

So, is it necessary? No, I don't think so, but I believe it can be very helpful for some and it's a possibility for you to explore with your husband and potential (real life, or online-to-real life) partners. If everyone's okay with communication and a possible friendship, you might want to plan some meetings so everyone can get to know each other better, communicate and see if there's any chemistry. I don't necessarily have Hubby and my new partner meet right away, but that may be because he and I have very similar tastes in friends and I'm usually a pretty good judge of how well communication will flow.

And thank you SweetErika to point out the semantic of Dom vs Master. I do tend to use them interchangebly, but I guess I should be more careful.

The reality is that everyone applies their own definitions and ideas to terms, so there's no right or wrong way to say anything. I think many do distinguish between D/s and M/s, and a lot seem to use "Dom(inant)" to mean Dom(me)s, Masters, Mistresses, etc., but that doesn't mean you have to. The important thing, in my experience, is to be very specific about how you define terms and what it is you're looking for. That is, if you expect to have limits, the final say on some things and prioritize your husband/marriage, say so.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Like SE says, I very much doubt this would work if it were proposed you have 2 Masters...but then that also goes with the dynamics I see as being M/s and the depth I require it to be for me to feel it is more than role play. This also applies for me in terms of it working in a D/s situation as all the Dominants I have ever had contact with would never consider sharing the role of Dominant with another under any circumstances....it is an all or nothing situation for them where dominance belongs to one only and is not something which can be shared, compromised, and/or negotiated.

They might share their sub with another/others, but that is a far different situation to co-Domming a submissive as the Dominant who shares is always in control of what takes place, what is permissable, what the limits and boundaries are, and doesn't have to negotiate with another or share their control of the submissive which I have found to be a fundamental requirement of most PYL's. I can see it working if it is a Dominant couple who have their own relatinship, but even then it can get messy very quickly if one wants the opposite of the other, or feels their power is being undermined and pushed aside in any manner. Personally, and yes I know this is not everyone, I find submitting to one a full-time job without considering submitting to another as well. I wish you well, but I also would caution you to think carefully first and look at all the possibilities of what could be the outcome for you and your present relationship, and if you still wish to go ahead, set some fairly solid guidelines with your present partner which you and he will both stick to no matter what happens. Without that you could become yet another stat with no marriage, no Master/Mistress, no Dominant, no relationship.

Catalina

 

[_kiana_]

Hmmm...how do I explain my own situation??

I have my husband. He used to be my Dominant in all ways, not just the bedroom. It fell back to just the sexual, and right now that is even a bit iffy. I inadvertently 'found' a man that pulled on my submissiveness and ended up my Dominant for a time. Right now, we're down to 'just' play partners but we hope for the deeper parts of D/s to be re-integrated while other issues resolve.

What that comes down to is that for a while I had my husband and a separate Dominant. I was still naturally submissive to my husband in all the ways I've always been. (And still am.) He and the Dominant had a few discussions before the commitment was agreed upon but certainly weren't friends and did not talk much. My husband gave the Dominant no limits to me. (My husband combined my feedback regarding the Dominant with his own feelings about the man to come to that conclusion. It was not blind.) But the Dominant was mature enough to realize that my marriage needed to come first and was going to give it as much room and respect as needed.

So my first rule was that anything my husband wanted, at any time, I was to do to the best of my ability. And if anything that he (the Dominant) asked of me contradicted what my husband said, I was to do what my husband wanted. The Dominant was willing for his control over me to be fluid in order for my marriage to stay strong. That is the one of the biggest reasons I believe that it worked for us. And hopefully will work for us again. My husband knew that was the rule but never once tried to take advantage of his ability to over-rule things if he wanted. I don't think he'd ever try that actually.

I think if it does get going again, my husband may play a larger part. We'll have to see what happens then.

As everyone else has said...one submissive having more than one Dominant is certainly possible. But it's going to come with all the hard work that comes with any other relationship, no matter what kind it is. Honest and open communication is needed between all partners (being a middle man gets old, fast). It has to at least be available if any problems come up.

It also requires maturity. It's the one thing that I've seen ruin many poly relationships. Just one party of the bunch being a little too immature (unwilling to own up to being wrong/having an issue/denying such/etc) can ruin the whole thing. And if you have two Dominants vying for the power and control, well, that can make things even messier.

Good luck!

 

[nh23]

.....

 

[the captians wench]

I am good friends with a poly house. There are 2 slaves, 1 sub, and two masters in this house. One master owns the two slaves, the sub and the other master are indipendant of each other and the others. The master with the two slaves, is alpha in the house, now this does not mean that the other guy subs to the first, it's more just a chain of command. but the two slaves serve each man as their master, taking the alpha's needs as a priority over the other.

It's been no secret that I have carried on a long distance love afair for two years (which is starting to get back to where it should be btw ), but in that, he has allowd me to play with people here, and that has caused some issues at times. The issues came when the other would have me do things that he did not aprove of, or when he didn't care for the guy in the first place. He worried about the people playing with me, and wanted to make sure that they were on the up and up, if they weren't, then he would inforce rules that made play with the other person difficult. Most of my partners respected these new rules, thus winning his favor, and I was no longer restricted. When an asshole came along that would challenge my loyalty, well all hell broke loose.

The two don't have to have a relationship with each other, I don't think, tho it may help, but they do have to have respect for the part each plays in your life. Your 2nd, has to know and realize what his place is, and your husband has to always feel like he is most important. Once those lines blur, in any one's mind, that's when issues happen.

and this is a situation where comunication is vital! once comunication breaks down in these situations, the relationship has serious repricutions. Don't be afraid to be totally honest about what's going on in either relationship, and remember your loyalties.

 

[EmpressFi]

I thought I could, for a while, but now know I couldnt. I just couldnt serve two masters. Malin and I are poly and while he is dominant to me, he's not a Dom to me. Keeper_of_Fi is my Master and the only one I want.

When we decided to make things real, the first thing he insisted upon was talking to john and finding out the boundaries. We were all friends before, so that part was at least a little easier than talking to someone you didnt know. And communication is still the key for us

 

[rida]

Again, thank you for the valuable feed-back.

Thank you _kiana_ for sharing your story. Although Hubby is the one that introduced a D/s dinamic in the bedroom, he has now pulled a bit back. Therefore he has not given me any real limits for the other Dom. That being said, I am still His submissive, and His order will come first, no matter what. I will not submit to anyone that does not understand that my priority (after all the other life's responsibilities) is my marriage and my Husband.

nh23, SweetErika, the captians wench: thank you for your sharing your story.
Right now I am looking into this beta-Dom thing on my own. I share everything I do with my Hubby, so he is never kept from knowing what is going on. But I see little desire on his ends of getting involved. As I mentioned earlier, at the moment the possibilities are only o/l and that might add to Hubby's feeling that this beta-Dom thing is somewhat abstract and nothing he really need to be concerned with. I, on the oder end, realize that even if it is on-line only, the emotion will be real. (I personally never lie on-line: I do not see the need to be anything but myself personality wise: the good and the ugly and mostly the crazy - doesn't mean I give personal details away thou).

SweetErika, your idea of having Hubby carry on the physical task for beta-Dom is something that I personally would love, as I can see that the lack of physicality with an o/l relationship will eventually feel weary (I am a very touchy-feely type of person).

thank you catalina_francisco for your contribution. I can see what you mean by finding "submitting to one a full-time job without considering submitting to another as well." Expecially in the contest of the type of relationship you have. And I can see that in such a relationship, sharing a sub or slave would not be possible.

Part of me share the same believe, and that is what also prompted this thread.

Empress_Fi: thank you for imput.
I can see that part of my need for a beta-Dom has been that, although still Dominant, I have not felt Hubby as an alfa-Dom in the past couple of month, while at the same time, I have come to embrace this part of my personality, and I have felt more than ever the need for a strong Dom in my life.


So I see that, as in any relationship, to be successful communication is the key. The fact that there are more than 2 people involved, makes it even more so. It is good to know that it can be done. I probably should try to get Hubby to talk with the beta-Dom, possibly before things get too involved.
A poly (even if only emotional) relationship is already hard work without D/s dynamics involved. D/s carrying a deeper connection, will need even more so.

I have been trying to voice my feeling and thought to Hubby, but lacking clarity it was very hard. I'll forward him this thread and go from there.

Thank you again for your valuable imput. And any further insight/comment/story is very welcome.

 

[serijules]

A long time friend of mine had two mistresses for a number of years. One was a switch and belonged to the other Mistress as well. They were together for quite a few years. I won't say it WORKED as there were a lot of problems in the relationship, but it didn't have much to do with the multiple roles so to speak, more so just to do with personality and trust issues. Friend now only belongs to one of them and is much happier as they are a better fit.

It's one of those things you can't say will or will not work and I have a hard time understanding why anyone would blatantly say it would or wouldn't. As always, it depends on the people and the dynamics and the expectations and the communication. I've seen it work, and I've seen it not work.

 

[Homburg]

I've a friend that lives in a household similar to what Serijules describes. Her Mistress is submissive to the fellow that owns the house. My friend is owned by her Mistress, but cedes to the houseowner as well. Their relationship has some interesting issues at times, but she is happy and fulfilled.

Personally, I don't know that I could deal with it. Well, not when it comes to "v" at least. With her, I'm a cranky old silverback gorilla, and admittedly possessive. I was not quite the same with "w" while she was under my hand. I was possessive, but could intellectually accept other relationships. Given her needs and goals, I even approved of the idea.

That said, "v" and I have always had something of the M/s dynamic, and it is getting stronger and more obvious (to her great joy). I think this ties in with what a few others have posted. Multiple Doms may well be perfectly fine, but it may be more difficult in an M/s dynamic.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

Personally, I don't know that I could deal with it. Well, not when it comes to "v" at least. With her, I'm a cranky old silverback gorilla, and admittedly possessive.

I like possesive Dom's! *smiles*

 

[DeservingBitch]

DeservingBitch you see no "need for the two Dom to cooperate beyond respecting pre-negotiated and agreed upon limits", and that in your specific non D/s poly, you negotiate separately with each of your partners. Right now I see myself walking down this same path, with me negotiating separately. However, don't you think that if the D/s element is included, keeping the two relationship completely separate could create complication as the two Dom would feel somewhat as if they do not have real control?

First, and just to clarify, I meant 'pre-negociated and agreed upon limits and boundaries' in terms of the relationship as a whole and not only in terms of play. As for your question, yes I can see how the control thing could be an issue. But I can see it working as well. I think it depends a lot on what the D/s aspect would mean to you and each of your partner. Many others here have given their thoughts on how they see that cooperation between the two Doms may be necessary -- I can see why they see that in some situations. I'm just suggesting that this is not the only way to make it work -- and should my poly relationships be D/s, this is probably not the way I would do it.

But I think that what matters is how you feel about it and what you need out of each relationship, and then, negociate and discuss it with each person involved.

 

[Netzach]

I could see collaborating with the right person. Especially if there were some weird non-sexual sexual tension and lack of attraction to one another except in a cerebral way - that bottom would really suffer hard. But I'm a share-er if I'm comfortable and I honestly don't believe anyone's trying to best me, personally.

 

[Betticus]

Two Male masters?

Me personally... no.

I have a lot of trouble with any male that tries to touch what belongs to me. Other girls are different for the most part but another guy... I'm not into sharing.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

I don't think I could call two men "Master". Not even sure if I could have a Master and a Misstress cuz I would still prefer one of them a bit more if you know what I mean?

But I used to play/cyber with more than one men in the past and found it quite easy. Guess it was easy cuz it was just about sex. No feelings and emotions involved, dunno.

 

[HottieMama]

Two Male masters?

Me personally... no.

I have a lot of trouble with any male that tries to touch what belongs to me. Other girls are different for the most part but another guy... I'm not into sharing.

Would it matter if the other female was a Domme and it was a D/s relationship? i guess i am curious if it is about the "power" or the gender.


As for me...no. i have no interest in more than one.

 

[Homburg]

I have a lot of trouble with any male that tries to touch what belongs to me.

Actually, recently, someone did, and I managed to not go gorilla on him. I was introducing my best friend to the world of BDSM, and giving him some down and dirty lessons on how to top with the assistance of another friend as our willing victim. I would illustrate various techniques on her, and he would work to duplicate them. (which is a very dry description of a very hot scene, but that's a tale for another day)

When time came to show edgier stuff (heavier hitting, wax, knifeplay, cutting), I used my wife as the model, and he was not allowed to participate. Sorry, no total noobs damaging my gal, thanks. Well, after the aforementioned waxing, the girls were cuddled on the couch (exhausted and in far, far away), and I left the room to grab something, telling him to watch them. He decided to do some impromptu knifeplay with them, including my gal obviously.

Now, this sets off ALL kinds of ugly alarms in my psyche normally. Some dude is touching my naked and basically helpless wife, without permission, and, worse, he's doing it with a knife, and even worse, he's a total newbie. I started to get twitchy, hands clenching, cold calm descending that is the precursor to real violence. For a moment there, yeah, the gorilla was close to the surface. But there's mitigating circumstances.

1) He's my best friend. Literally. 15 years, and he knows shit about me that no one but my wife knows.
2) He wasn't actual touching her, just running the tip of the knife up and own both of them.
3) He's easily as good with a knife as I am. We've done live steel work with each other doing knife defense in MA, so I trust him with a blade.

Still, it took effort. Major effort. He's been told in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that his actions were across the line, however unknowingly, though no harm done.

Still, it was a close thing. There's that voice in the back of my mind, and it wanted blood.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Would it matter if the other female was a Domme and it was a D/s relationship? i guess i am curious if it is about the "power" or the gender.


As for me...no. i have no interest in more than one.

F says it doesn't matter which gender they are, he just is not interested in co-dominating and in so doing giving up part of his power and control to another.

Catalina

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

He's been told in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that his actions were across the line, however unknowingly, though no harm done.

Still, it was a close thing. There's that voice in the back of my mind, and it wanted blood.

*smiles*

Anytime when I think my Master would let other men/women touch me I find it as a some way of punishment, I cannot help it. I would comply to such a situation yes, only to please my Master tho. I would feel abused in a way I think I wouldn't like and that could very easily hurt my feelings.

For you Homburg, I love you don't like to see anyone touching "v"

 

[Homburg]

Would it matter if the other female was a Domme and it was a D/s relationship? i guess i am curious if it is about the "power" or the gender.


As for me...no. i have no interest in more than one.

I personally have no real issues with "v" playing with women, and she has, both with me and of her own accord. And I would not mind a woman Topping her in individual scenes. In that case, it is a matter of gender. The Dominant Male Monkey in me is just not challenged in the same way by a woman touching my gal.

That said, I would probably have some issues with a long-term relationship, but only from a power/logistics standpoint. As mentioned above, you get into conflicts as to who is in charge of what and where primary loyalties lie. I do not play well with others, never took part in team sports, and utterly fucking hate team-building exercises at work.

A female switch setting in the middle, submissive to me, but toppish over her, would be a situation that I would have no problem with. No real power or gender or logistics issues there, and lots of fantasy wank fodder