Police Misconduct

[Ramone45]

There are an infinite number of videos on You Tube of various degrees of police misconduct ranging from the ridiculous to the tragically obscene. The state of policing in this country (US) is abysmal. I thought of a couple of things. One: Police officers need to be held personally accountable for their actions. Nothing will ever change as long as taxpayers are responsible financially for their malpractice. They should be required to carry liability insurance like any number of any professions. I also think we should make travel by motor vehicle a right in the same way the right to bear arms is a "right". Possession of firearms is definitely not a right. It is regulated and requires licensing.It really seems that you give up your constitutional rights once you get into a motor vehicle based on the premise that it is a privilege granted by the state.

 

[beezzz]

move to China

 

[StrawberryNight]

There are an infinite number of videos on You Tube of various degrees of police misconduct ranging from the ridiculous to the tragically obscene. The state of policing in this country (US) is abysmal. I thought of a couple of things. One: Police officers need to be held personally accountable for their actions. Nothing will ever change as long as taxpayers are responsible financially for their malpractice. They should be required to carry liability insurance like any number of any professions. I also think we should make travel by motor vehicle a right in the same way the right to bear arms is a "right". Possession of firearms is definitely not a right. It is regulated and requires licensing.It really seems that you give up your constitutional rights once you get into a motor vehicle based on the premise that it is a privilege granted by the state.

There are bad cops out there. Take a moment to realize that those bad videos are what get people views and get people talking. So then take a moment to think about how many good cops that are out there for each bad video. Not every cop wants to abuse the system and frame you.

Cops get sued all the time. Every time someone gets treated they feel unfairly they get sued. Most are held personally accountable as well. If a cop is in a chase and hits another car, they are issued a ticket for that accident. Cop draws a weapon like a taser their use of that weapon is looked into and it has to fall within guidelines or they can be sent back to training or even fired. Most departments if you're involved in a shooting you're suspended and investigated until it is deemed the shooting was good and clean. If found otherwise you can be fired or face legal action.

As with everything there are good and bad. People don't talk about the good often enough and news gets ratings showing you the bad over and over again. People talk and gossip about the extremes of everything not realizing there are whole other sides to it.

 

[Ramone45]

There are bad cops out there. Take a moment to realize that those bad videos are what get people views and get people talking. So then take a moment to think about how many good cops that are out there for each bad video. Not every cop wants to abuse the system and frame you.

Cops get sued all the time. Every time someone gets treated they feel unfairly they get sued. Most are held personally accountable as well. If a cop is in a chase and hits another car, they are issued a ticket for that accident. Cop draws a weapon like a taser their use of that weapon is looked into and it has to fall within guidelines or they can be sent back to training or even fired. Most departments if you're involved in a shooting you're suspended and investigated until it is deemed the shooting was good and clean. If found otherwise you can be fired or face legal action.

As with everything there are good and bad. People don't talk about the good often enough and news gets ratings showing you the bad over and over again. People talk and gossip about the extremes of everything not realizing there are whole other sides to it.

You're right. But when the bad ones are SO bad, it makes you think.

 

[StrawberryNight]

You're right. But when the bad ones are SO bad, it makes you think.

Agreed because it always seems that these examples make you even wonder how people can really be that way.

 

[Ramone45]

Agreed because it always seems that these examples make you even wonder how people can really be that way.

Have your interactions with the police been generally good? My contact has been very minimal and I would rate them as fair to poor. I tried to resolve a dispute with a neighbor about his unrestrained dogs chasing me while running.One of the dogs finally bit me and the police got involved. Instead of compelling the owner to control his dogs for the safety of the neighborhood, he told me to find a different place to run.
I got pulled over for speeding and the cop asked me if I knew why he pulled me over. I said, "I guess for speeding." On the citation he wrote "BECAUSE I was speeding."
I also witnessed a car hit a runner in a park. There was a lane for recreation next to a lane for cars. The Speed Limit was VERY slow. This old guy hits a runner in the bike lane and flips him up over the hood. The poor guy literally had a dent in his head. I thought the police would at least try to determine if the driver was drunk, but AFAIK, they released him without even a ticket.

 

[StrawberryNight]

Have your interactions with the police been generally good? My contact has been very minimal and I would rate them as fair to poor. I tried to resolve a dispute with a neighbor about his unrestrained dogs chasing me while running.One of the dogs finally bit me and the police got involved. Instead of compelling the owner to control his dogs for the safety of the neighborhood, he told me to find a different place to run.
I got pulled over for speeding and the cop asked me if I knew why he pulled me over. I said, "I guess for speeding." On the citation he wrote "BECAUSE I was speeding."
I also witnessed a car hit a runner in a park. There was a lane for recreation next to a lane for cars. The Speed Limit was VERY slow. This old guy hits a runner in the bike lane and flips him up over the hood. The poor guy literally had a dent in his head. I thought the police would at least try to determine if the driver was drunk, but AFAIK, they released him without even a ticket.

Actually mine have been good. The times I have been pulled over I was doing what caused me to get pulled over so I understood the reasoning. I also live in a town smaller than most as well so it is not like I am dealing with Police from NYC, Vegas, or LA.

 

[Ramone45]

Actually mine have been good. The times I have been pulled over I was doing what caused me to get pulled over so I understood the reasoning. I also live in a town smaller than most as well so it is not like I am dealing with Police from NYC, Vegas, or LA.

Me too. Small town. But we've had a few issues with the larger community. Our Sheriff is a disgrace by any measure.

 

[SpeareChucker]

There are an infinite number of videos on You Tube of various degrees of police misconduct ranging from the ridiculous to the tragically obscene. The state of policing in this country (US) is abysmal. I thought of a couple of things. One: Police officers need to be held personally accountable for their actions. Nothing will ever change as long as taxpayers are responsible financially for their malpractice. They should be required to carry liability insurance like any number of any professions. I also think we should make travel by motor vehicle a right in the same way the right to bear arms is a "right". Possession of firearms is definitely not a right. It is regulated and requires licensing.It really seems that you give up your constitutional rights once you get into a motor vehicle based on the premise that it is a privilege granted by the state.

When the exceptions to the rule are all collected in one basket,
it might seem to be quite a load indeed.

But if those numbers are compared to all other proper police
actions and interactions, then you truly see what a minority
the bad cases are. Police are people, they have families and
for the most part, they want the same things that we want.

PS - Possession of firearms is a right.

 

[Ramone45]

My concern is how BAD the bad ones are. How is it even possible?
I saw one where a cop saw a black kid sitting on a patio of an apartment building occupied primarily by college students. The kid then picked up one of those litter picker uppers and he had ear buds and was cleaning up the sidewalk area in front of his building. He gets approached by a cop who determines for some unknown reason that he is suspicious and wants him to ID himself. The kid explains himself and tells the cop to pound sand and that he does't appreciate being profiled and harassed. It degenerates to the cop DRAWING HIS GUN on an unarmed, innocent civilian. The cop never once articulated any reasonable suspicion that this kid committed anything at all. How could policing possibly be that bad?

 

[BotanyBoy]

There are an infinite number of videos on You Tube of various degrees of police misconduct ranging from the ridiculous to the tragically obscene. The state of policing in this country (US) is abysmal.

There are some baddies....but it's far from abysmal, it's quite nice actually.

I thought of a couple of things. One: Police officers need to be held personally accountable for their actions. Nothing will ever change as long as taxpayers are responsible financially for their malpractice.

Then you won't get anything and nothing happens. Cops are poor, they have nothing to take, they are also not private entities.

They should be required to carry liability insurance like any number of any professions.

Again, policing isn't a private profession, it's a government service.

I also think we should make travel by motor vehicle a right in the same way the right to bear arms is a "right".

That would get rather complicated.

Possession of firearms is definitely not a right. It is regulated and requires licensing.

It definitely is and only in the anti-civil rights states.

It really seems that you give up your constitutional rights once you get into a motor vehicle based on the premise that it is a privilege granted by the state.

Not at all.

In a lot of states (mostly red ones) your car is as much your private space as your house....so when that bum forces his way in for some change? You can smoke that mother fucker, 100% legal.

Obviously in blue states you're generally required to be a victim who just takes it or watches their family/loved ones get violated by some degenerate the state protects at all costs over law abiding citizens. Because blue = backwards like that.

 

[heathergives]

https://i.imgflip.com/pzq4z.jpg

 

[Rightguide]

There are an infinite number of videos on You Tube of various degrees of police misconduct ranging from the ridiculous to the tragically obscene. The state of policing in this country (US) is abysmal. I thought of a couple of things. One: Police officers need to be held personally accountable for their actions. Nothing will ever change as long as taxpayers are responsible financially for their malpractice. They should be required to carry liability insurance like any number of any professions. I also think we should make travel by motor vehicle a right in the same way the right to bear arms is a "right". Possession of firearms is definitely not a right. It is regulated and requires licensing.It really seems that you give up your constitutional rights once you get into a motor vehicle based on the premise that it is a privilege granted by the state.

Amend the Constitution and don't expect a lot of people lining up for police work under your new scheme.

 

[someoneyouknow]

There are situations where the officer should clearly be held responsible, such as in Fort Worth or Dallas, because the incident was so egregious, so beyond reason, there is no excuse which can be given.

On the other hand, there are situations where the officer has to react in an instant and will, unfortunately, make what the armchair experts will say was the wrong decision.

Time after time, when an incident happens, somewhere in the nation there is a news reporter who goes to a police training facility and is put through one or two situations where use of deadly force may or may not be required. They are given the same information as the officer and told they have to decide how to react.

It's amazing when put in a situation where a decision has to be made in a half second, how many times people will make the wrong decision OR get themselves killed.

If you want to hold police personally responsible for someone's death then we should do the same for CEOs and other officers of companies when they make decisions based on monetary return rather than safety. They are the ones making the final decision whether to save money or pay extra for the safety.

 

[BotanyBoy]

If you want to hold police personally responsible for someone's death then we should do the same for CEOs and other officers of companies when they make decisions based on monetary return rather than safety. They are the ones making the final decision whether to save money or pay extra for the safety.

Because private enterprise and voluntary exchanges are not the same as state authority.

If I make a dumbass choice that's on me, nobody else.

If the state sends a guy with a gun to come violate/maim/kill me.....that's as not on me as it gets.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Because private enterprise and voluntary exchanges are not the same as state authority.

Correct. CEOs can make decisions which kill people and get away with it whereas public officials are (usually) held accountable. So nice to know:

Intent doesn't matter when you're poor, you fuck up you go to prison.​

If I make a dumbass choice that's on me, nobody else.

Probably the first correct thing I've heard you say.

If the state sends a guy with a gun to come violate/maim/kill me.....that's as not on me as it gets.

Right. The state is deliberately sending someone to violate/maim/kill you. That's what they do when the police are sent out. That's their only job, to go after you regardless of anything else.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Correct. CEOs can make decisions which kill people and get away with it

No, they can't.

Your hatred for individual freedom is making you say silly things.

Probably the first correct thing I've heard you say.

So why can't you apply that to EVERYONE???

Right. The state is deliberately sending someone to violate/maim/kill you. That's what they do when the police are sent out. That's their only job, to go after you regardless of anything else.

That is the explicit threat of law enforcement.

"Do what we say or we will fuck you up and if you don't or try to resist we will effectively if not literally end your life." that's the bottom line of EVERY law enforcement interaction. They are the people in charge of applying the force of violence on behalf of the authority of the state.

If you haven't already figured that out you might want to spread your cheeks and remove your head.

 

[bigsly]

There are situations where the officer should clearly be held responsible, such as in Fort Worth or Dallas, because the incident was so egregious, so beyond reason, there is no excuse which can be given.

On the other hand, there are situations where the officer has to react in an instant and will, unfortunately, make what the armchair experts will say was the wrong decision.

Time after time, when an incident happens, somewhere in the nation there is a news reporter who goes to a police training facility and is put through one or two situations where use of deadly force may or may not be required. They are given the same information as the officer and told they have to decide how to react.

It's amazing when put in a situation where a decision has to be made in a half second, how many times people will make the wrong decision OR get themselves killed.

If you want to hold police personally responsible for someone's death then we should do the same for CEOs and other officers of companies when they make decisions based on monetary return rather than safety. They are the ones making the final decision whether to save money or pay extra for the safety.

"...such as in Fort Worth or Dallas, because the incident was so egregious, so beyond reason, there is no excuse which can be given."

You mean the Ft. Worth incident when a neighbor called the police for a welfare check because the doors of a nearby house had been opened for a while that night? Where the two responding cops drew their weapons as they approached the house, one making his way to the rear? And when he gets to the kitchen window he sees someone pointing a weapon directly at him, so instincts instantly kick-in and he fires, killing a woman who had been playing video games with her nephew, when she heard noises outside the house and took her pistol out of her purse to defend herself from whom she wrongly assumed were bad guys, exactly like the cop who shot her, as she was pointing her weapon directly at him, thought she was a bad guy.

The first reports I read made no mention of the lady having a weapon; at least one did relay that the cop said he saw something in her hand and immediately felt threatened. I made the comment then that maybe she had a game controller in her hand and that's why he shot, thinking it was a gun. But it turns out it was a gun, as her nephew told the police, and also the part about the lady hearing noises outside and taking the weapon out of her purse.

That's the "so egregious, so beyond reason, there is no excuse which can be given" Ft. Worth example you're using?

What's logically unfathomable is how the cop could possibly be charged with murder, if those are the actual circumstances, when he reacted exactly as the police department trained him to react

 

[SpeareChucker]

My concern is how BAD the bad ones are. How is it even possible?
I saw one where a cop saw a black kid sitting on a patio of an apartment building occupied primarily by college students. The kid then picked up one of those litter picker uppers and he had ear buds and was cleaning up the sidewalk area in front of his building. He gets approached by a cop who determines for some unknown reason that he is suspicious and wants him to ID himself. The kid explains himself and tells the cop to pound sand and that he does't appreciate being profiled and harassed. It degenerates to the cop DRAWING HIS GUN on an unarmed, innocent civilian. The cop never once articulated any reasonable suspicion that this kid committed anything at all. How could policing possibly be that bad?

Again, how can you focus upon the exception.

Let me ask you, does all of the hostility and disdain directed at the police
work not to weed out the bad ones, but rather prevent the good ones from applying?

 

[Ramone45]

Again, how can you focus upon the exception.

Let me ask you, does all of the hostility and disdain directed at the police
work not to weed out the bad ones, but rather prevent the good ones from applying?

I'm going to argue that this behavior may not be as exceptional as you think it is. But I will agree that it is a terrible profession.

 

[SpeareChucker]

I've never had a negative encounter with the police
even when they caught me with illegal drugs.
Most of the time, if you treat them like people
then they will treat you as a person.

It's like your saying Lt Calley is the definition of the military.
Now did he go in bad? was he a bad choice? or did his experience turn him bad?

 

[TJX]

There is talk about how dangerous police work is. Let me offer the flip side to that coin. Every police officer in the country KNEW going in what the job was. Every police officer KNEW what the risks and dangers were. Yet they still sought out the job. These are not men and women who were plucked out of society and assigned a dangerous job that they are terrified to perform.

It's been my experience with city police and county sheriffs that they're a bunch of bullies and cowboys. Our state highway patrol on the other hand is is a group of true professionals and I do have the upmost respect for them.

 

[bigsly]

I offer that the General 1/3 Rule applies: 1/3 of all cops are good cops, 1/3 are in it just for the power trip the badge affords them, and the other 1/3 are basically pyscho. Same Rule used to apply to the military too, I think, but today, since SOF is now practically the only true use of actual military might on the ground, I'd offer that only a very small sliver aren't power trippers or psychos, or McDonald's rejects, or free loaders in strictly for the resulting benies.

 

[SpeareChucker]

There is talk about how dangerous police work is. Let me offer the flip side to that coin. Every police officer in the country KNEW going in what the job was. Every police officer KNEW what the risks and dangers were. Yet they still sought out the job. These are not men and women who were plucked out of society and assigned a dangerous job that they are terrified to perform.

It's been my experience with city police and county sheriffs that they're a bunch of bullies and cowboys. Our state highway patrol on the other hand is is a group of true professionals and I do have the upmost respect for them.

They might have known, in theory, what the job was.
Then they learned the hard way about the stress and the hours involved...

I am sorry you feel that you have bad experiences,
perhaps that is personality-based...



Some people just manage to bring out the worst in others...

 

[SpeareChucker]

I offer that the General 1/3 Rule applies: 1/3 of all cops are good cops, 1/3 are in it just for the power trip the badge affords them, and the other 1/3 are basically pyscho. Same Rule used to apply to the military too, I think, but today, since SOF is now practically the only true use of actual military might on the ground, I'd offer that only a very small sliver aren't power trippers or psychos, or McDonald's rejects, or free loaders in strictly for the resulting benies.

That is a piss-poor general rule and it is as bad as the person
who impeaches the whole based on the actions of the outlier...