Point of View Question

[pinball_fun]

I have a question about what voice to use for stories, and I hope I'm in the right forum for this.

I have posted only one story, http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=352195, but as I start another I have been wondering if anyone has any advice on whether to go with first-person or third-person point of view. My first story ended up in first person, though I originally wrote it more in a second-person viewpoint and ended up changing it (which was way too much work, making sure all the verb tenses were changed correctly!)

I guess it would partly depend on what category story; this one will probably end up either in BDSM or Toys/Masturbation, but for the first half of the story (at least) it deals primarily with a woman and her thoughts, and a masturbation scene.

I finished writing this first part in third-person, and when I look back over it, it doesn't seem to feel very personal. I looked through some of the stories that have been posted, and I did notice that many of the ones I feel are more well-written, certainly more compelling, are in first person. Does anyone have any words of wisdom on this? Maybe I'm over-thinking it.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or helpful comments.

 

[fifty5]

If it were me...

I'd pick a section of the story that I found interesting - long enough to be useful, but short enough to do quite quickly - and write it over again, using the other POV. NB Write it again, don't just edit the current version into the other POV.

When you've done that, compare the versions to see which you like. Don't worry about academic or literary reasons, just go with your gut - if it comes out that way, you need to want to do the work.

If it's the new version, ask yourself if it's so much better that you are ready to re-write it all.

I doubt if just editing into a different POV would be worth the trouble: that just gives the original, unsatisfactory version, that's been tinkered with artificially so it doesn't work the way you originally wanted it to. That doesn't sound exciting to me.

Bottom line, go with your instincts. Experienced craftsman writers may well be able to do a professional job without being excited themselves. I think for folk without that experience, if you aren't excited yourself, it's going to be an uphill job to excite your readers (either sexually, or otherwise).

 

[sr71plt]

There are other opinions on this here (which helps make the world more interesting), but I think that erotica begs for first-person treatment if you can do it. Erotica is attempting to bring the reader into the "feel" of the story as much as possible--which is exactly what first person perspective does.

 

[rgraham666]

Don't sweat it. Tell the story in whatever matter feels right.

I'v done both and received accolades for both.

 

[starrkers]

I'm one of the other opinions Personally I hate first person. And I rarely read anything in first person, it's pretty much instant back click, unless there's something special in the writing. The only time I've written in first person was for the Letters category.

 

[pinball_fun]

I'd pick a section of the story that I found interesting - long enough to be useful, but short enough to do quite quickly - and write it over again, using the other POV. NB Write it again, don't just edit the current version into the other POV.

This sounds like a very good idea to me...I'll give it a try. I also think you're correct in that it will be a better test if I simply re-write the scene, instead of find/replace, etc.

Thanks to everyone so far for some sound & constructive advice. I find the different viewpoints (no pun intended) very interesting.

 

[tickledkitty]

I like both first and third person but usually end up writing in first. I agree with sr71plt that first person lends a nice intimacy to erotica. It also just seems easier to me for some reason.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Pinball,

Point Of View (POV) tends to give everyone fits. IMHO, it's very hard to master it with on-the-job writing experience alone. There are several good articles on the subject in the Lit How-To section.

When it comes to First, Second, or Third person there is no "right" answer. Third is the most natural, First the most intimate, and Secone (IMHO) to be avoided at all cost. Just to make things more confusing, there are many variations within categories, especially Third Person.

Courage.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[AvoidingRealWork]

I find that first person stories are more intimate, but they present technical challenges. I often find myself writing in the "double past," and it can come out sounding like a memoir if I'm not careful. The first person character must by logic be telling the story from some point in the future. What point? This character has knowledge of what is to come, and it limits some of the immediacy of the action.

With third person, everything can happen "in the moment," with an unwritten, undetermined future, and that can add excitement.

A good compromise is third person limited (one character's perspective), which combines some of the intimacy of first person with the technical ease of third. The Harry Potter books make excellent use of third person limited.

Hope this helps.

 

[sr71plt]

I find that first person stories are more intimate, but they present technical challenges. I often find myself writing in the "double past," and it can come out sounding like a memoir if I'm not careful. The first person character must by logic be telling the story from some point in the future. What point? This character has knowledge of what is to come, and it limits some of the immediacy of the action.

With third person, everything can happen "in the moment," with an unwritten, undetermined future, and that can add excitement.

A good compromise is third person limited (one character's perspective), which combines some of the intimacy of first person with the technical ease of third. The Harry Potter books make excellent use of third person limited.

Hope this helps.

You raise what I see as the most common pitfall in stories I've read in third person--maintaining the one-character perspective within set sections. It's easier to maintain this in first person (as a matter of fact, almost impossible to screw up). So, it's sort of a tradeoff.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

I find that first person stories are more intimate, but they present technical challenges. I often find myself writing in the "double past," and it can come out sounding like a memoir if I'm not careful. The first person character must by logic be telling the story from some point in the future. What point? This character has knowledge of what is to come, and it limits some of the immediacy of the action.

With third person, everything can happen "in the moment," with an unwritten, undetermined future, and that can add excitement.

A good compromise is third person limited (one character's perspective), which combines some of the intimacy of first person with the technical ease of third. The Harry Potter books make excellent use of third person limited.

Hope this helps.

Well put. And, FWIW, I totally agree. Many beginning writers start out in First Person because it seems natural. Truth be told, it's hard to master and not that popular. While I've read everything Raymond Chandler ever published, very few modern novels are published in First Person.

eta: sr71, there's nothing "wrong" with using Omniscient Third Person. Romance writers do it all the time. The problem is avoiding "head hopping" and confusing readers with numerious, and often poorly identified, POV switches within a scene.

There is, of course, no perfect answer. Lit is a great place to experiment and find what works best for each writer.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[AvoidingRealWork]

You raise what I see as the most common pitfall in stories I've read in third person--maintaining the one-character perspective within set sections. It's easier to maintain this in first person (as a matter of fact, almost impossible to screw up). So, it's sort of a tradeoff.

3PL might take a bit of practice and careful proofreading, but it has a lot going for it.

I've read some great 3PL stories on this site where the perspective continually shifts from character to character. Check out "A Tempting Vacation" by JackKing.

 

[sr71plt]

eta: sr71, there's nothing "wrong" with using Omniscient Third Person. Romance writers do it all the time. The problem is avoiding "head hopping" and confusing readers with numerious, and often poorly identified, POV switches within a scene.

Ummm. I didn't say there was anything wrong with using third person. I use them all. I said that first person was more intimate, so is a natural choice for erotica.

By the way, third person, and third person omniscient in particular, isn't popular in professional writing in U.S. publishing now (and hasn't been for a couple of decades), whereas it still is popular in British publishing (which, I presume carries down to Australia). (just in case anyone is interested in publishing in the U.S. market)

 

[Stella_Omega]

Ummm. I didn't say there was anything wrong with using third person. I use them all. I said that first person was more intimate, so is a natural choice for erotica.

By the way, third person, and third person omniscient in particular, isn't popular in professional writing in U.S. publishing now (and hasn't been for a couple of decades), whereas it still is popular in British publishing (which, I presume carries down to Australia). (just in case anyone is interested in publishing in the U.S. market)

That's interesting!

I love first person, and I enjoy the puzzles that come with it-- how can you show your reader the outside of the character? The women around Marlowe drool at him, but he doesn't ever tell you that he himself is goodlooking. I think that's genius, I do.

For the same reasons, I like third limited-- how can you get a big story across, and acquaint the readers with hidden details-- when the protagonist can't possibly know about them?

On a bad day, though-- these problems can overrun the creative edge.

 

[sr71plt]

I love first person, and I enjoy the puzzles that come with it-- how can you show your reader the outside of the character? The women around Marlowe drool at him, but he doesn't ever tell you that he himself is goodlooking. I think that's genius, I do.
(

Yep, as an exercise, I have one coming up where the hook (well, one of them) is to get across that he is humongously endowed without any of the characters ever referring directly to it.

 

[Weird Harold]

In an interview, the Late Robert Jordan said.

RJ: Choosing the POV character is a matter of choosing whose eyes are the best to see a scene. What do I want the reader to know in that scene? What do I want to leave them uncertain about? Since the POV character is the one whose thoughts you have access to, the easiest way to leave someone's motivations, reactions or future plans murky is to have someone else be the POV character. Or, if I want to set a certain tone, or to present events in a particular way, that influences the choice of POV character.

RJ was talking about shifting POV characters in Third Person Limited. The principle of deciding what youwant the reader to know and controlling when you want to reveal it applies to the choice of first or third person POV as well as to the choice of which character to focus third person limited on.

The thing is that every story has different requirements so there is no "perfect choice" for POV or even verb tenses.

 

[emap]

The POV you work with is entirely the way you see the story in your own head. What people want to see the story done in varies, some people want only first person, some only want third person, and some only want second person.

There are pitfalls and difficulties in all POV's, second person of course being the absolute hardest to do and make most readers enjoy it. Personally I write in first person because it is the way I want to, as has been said it is one of the hardest to do, though it's not really.

Now as for whether you should change the POV of the story you are working on by simply changing the verbs used, don't. A story rather needs to stay in the POV you start writing it in simply because it is written for that POV, rarely does it work to simply change verbs used to change the POV and have a good story.

If you are unhappy with what you have written so far, read it through and see where you are unhappy and rewrite that, keep the POV or delete the entire thing and start over.

 

[impressive]

3PL might take a bit of practice and careful proofreading, but it has a lot going for it.

It's interesting that many talented writers of salacious smut "head hop" when they get to the sex scenes. They'll be cruising along just fine in 3rd limited, but as soon as the action gets started, they hop into the other character's head -- sometimes bouncing back and forth several times within the same scene. It can get dizzying.

An editor I once worked with said POV changes should be of at least 1000 words before shifting again. Another said they should all be delineated by "***" breaks.

I disagree that it's difficult to fuck up POV when writing in 1st. I've edited plenty that include narrative the POV character can't possibly know. A good example of mixed 1st & 3rd omniscient is Alan Russell's Political Suicide. When the protagonist is present, the chapter is written in 1st. When he's not, it's 3rd omniscient. It worked well.