POD (Publish on Demand)

[angela146]

It's been about a year since Tatelou's thread about POD.

Has anyone had any further experience with POD?

Any thoughts about good POD sites?

I've been looking at CafePress.com. No upfront costs but the per unit cost runs $7 per book plus $0.03 per page (i.e. $13 for a 200 page book *before* adding in your own profit).

Let's discuss...

 

[cantdog]

My experience with POD was at Border's. I worked there five years. We filled special orders, of course, and sometimes, when they came through, they were POD. Some of them really looked very very ugly. White cover, block letter titles. And expensive. I blame Reagan.

Café Press has a decent rep, as nearly as I can remember, which is pretty fuzzy on this particular score. I didn't specialize in special orders, I just thought them important enough to follow up, for the customer's sake. I would try, if I were planning to publish through a POD house, to see a few titles, just to make sure they aren't the doodahs who did the white-cover crapola books.

 

[angela146]

My experience with POD was at Border's. I worked there five years. We filled special orders, of course, and sometimes, when they came through, they were POD. Some of them really looked very very ugly. White cover, block letter titles. And expensive. I blame Reagan.

Café Press has a decent rep, as nearly as I can remember, which is pretty fuzzy on this particular score. I didn't specialize in special orders, I just thought them important enough to follow up, for the customer's sake. I would try, if I were planning to publish through a POD house, to see a few titles, just to make sure they aren't the doodahs who did the white-cover crapola books.

One nice thing about Cafe is that they allow you to upload a book and not make it publicly available right away.

That way you can order a copy of your own book (for $15 or whatever) and see what it looks/feels like before you let the public have at it.

Their upload process asks for full color cover art for both front and back so I would presume that you are getting a full color cover.

Of course, my biggest problem at the moment is that I don't have enough to fill anything big enough to call it a book. I doubt that I have 50 pages of total writing that's ready for public eyes.

 

[snooper]

I'm looking at CafePress closely at the moment for my novels, or at least for a dozen or so of them. I don't yet have enough details to decide whether they are for me, but I do know enough to realise that they only print the books. They are not publishers in any meaningful sense of the word - they do no advertising or marketing for you, nor do they do copy editing, or hand-holding such as a real publisher does.

S0 using them comes down to two questions:
- are they a good enough printer, at the right price, to be allowed to print a book for me? and
- do I want to set up as a publisher?

Perhaps Blacksnake can tell us more about the quality of their work? I believe he uses them.

 

[cantdog]

Want to do a collaborative work? I got a few pages. You got a few, and can polish more. We'd have more cred with a third writer in the mix. Cloudy? Gauche? Lucky? Lou's good, but she can go it alone right now, she don't need us. Rob Graham? Charley? You and I could pretend to be Canadian, have Rob and Charley's stories in with ours and call it Oh! Canada! Canadian erotica from Café Press.

 

[impressive]

Want to do a collaborative work? I got a few pages. You got a few, and can polish more. We'd have more cred with a third writer in the mix. Cloudy? Gauche? Lucky? Lou's good, but she can go it alone right now, she don't need us. Rob Graham? Charley? You and I could pretend to be Canadian, have Rob and Charley's stories in with ours and call it Oh! Canada! Canadian erotica from Café Press.

An AH anthology of sorts? Sounds interesting. There was talk of doing that with all the rainy day stories from Mat's challenge.

 

[rgraham666]

Want to do a collaborative work? I got a few pages. You got a few, and can polish more. We'd have more cred with a third writer in the mix. Cloudy? Gauche? Lucky? Lou's good, but she can go it alone right now, she don't need us. Rob Graham? Charley? You and I could pretend to be Canadian, have Rob and Charley's stories in with ours and call it Oh! Canada! Canadian erotica from Café Press.

That might be interesting. I don't have enough stuff, yet, to fill a whole book. But a couple of my stories (The Orange Slip, the Bill and Ruby stories, The Tease) are, I think, good enough to publish.

Problem is I can't put up any money. Desperately poor, ya know.

But I think we should think about it.

 

[KarenAM]

I've done the POD thing for The Usahar. I used iUniverse and was quite pleased with the results.

Here's what you need to do if you want to do an anthology:

1. Get everything in writing, especially all the legal stuff. Who owns the rights to your work if you publish as a group? Which rights? I've never done collaborative or anthology work so I'm not sure just what paperwork you'll need, but since there is a Literotica anthology, you might check with Laurel on that. Annoying contracts and agreements now save much misery later.

2. You're going to need to edit and proofread like you never have before. A typo on Literotica is fixable; a typo in your final manuscript for a book is not. This is why my latest novel is taking so long to come out, because I'm having to do all the editing and proofreading myself, and that takes time, because it's a 90,000 word manuscript. Figure you're going to need at least a year.

It's a challenging thing, self-publishing. But it's got real advantages, too. You learn things about both writing and publishing that most professional writers don't know. And holding a book in your hand with your work in it is a feeling that is like no other.

Definately give it some thought, y'all...

 

[H20wader]

the real challenge of POD

the money!!! 200 page book =$13.00
100 =$1300
not bad but a nice hunk of change.
do i set up a stand on the street?
do i sell them in a church?
the how becomes inportant. how does one set up a book sale at borders? Can one?
i write (at least i do now) i have no time to sell. i will accept the rejections until i get one published and then i will be better off.
there is a nice agent in Texas who rejected me, but asked for a rewrite. i have her address if you are interested. Oh the rejection was for 'over graphic and too explicit sex scenes' try try again!!!!!

 

[Boota]

The retail price of my book is much more than I would have liked, but I had no choice in it when I published through Authorhouse. Fortunately all I have heard from people is that it is worth every dime. That's good. I was really worried that people might feel ripped off. As far as quality of the physcial aspects of the book, I think my book looks as good as any other book out there and it is put together very well. I did my own cover art, so it looks exactly how I planned it.

You just have to remember that with POD you are your own publisher and it's your responsibility to handle everything. I've had pretty good luck in dealing with bookstores and getting my book out there. The indie stores are easy to deal with. I have a signing at a Barnes and Noble this weekend, so that could be a step toward breaking into that chain, depending on how things go. The POD label has a bit of a stigma to it, but it's not insurmountable.

 

[impressive]

I found this article interesting: http://www.hackwriters.com/Writersworld.htm

PRINT ON DEMAND
Empowerment for the writer or delusional self-indulgence?
• Sam North investigates P.O.D

Deciding to go down the route of self-publishing is a rocky road indeed. As I write this I have an email from a friend whose mother wants to publish her autobiography. Just for the family to read. No big deal. Maybe 50 copies. Somehow or another, a company that shall be nameless on the South Coast tried to persuade her to part with ten thousand pounds for this privilege.

Another author, just one office over from me, I discovered quite casually in conversation has parted with thousands of pounds to have his book about the ‘sixties’ edited by a company in Chichester. I know a lot of editors who would LOVE to get their hands on thousands to fix a book. Sadly it is not a highly paid profession. The people perpetuating these crimes are exploiting peoples vanity and of course, promising the earth.

Let’s be very clear, unless there is a miracle, and you get your book published,and actually into a bookshop, where it is then bought, you will not make a penny. You will not be considered for the Booker price or any prize. Yes there are exceptions.

You might be aware of the Rev Graham Taylor who self-published ‘Shadowmancer’ for around 3,500 pounds and sold the rights and for six more with Faber for $6 million.
This gives you hope yes? But there are millions of authors out there who pay out millions more a year to get their books into print only for their mother-in-law to use them as a wedge to keep a door open.
The reality is that in the USA last year there were 80,000 individual titles published. In print, presumable available from bookshops. A self-published book is usually only available on-line and almost never in bookshshops and worse, it is almost impossible to get reviewed. There may be something like *4.5 million books in print at any one time! *According to Russell Kierzkowski, buyer for the University of Pittsburgh Book Center.

It is house policy for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette for example never to review Print on Demand books and pretty much house policy for libraries and booksellers too. Their reasoning is that POD books in general don’t go through the critical phase of editing, rewrites, quality control, fact checking (which includes plagiarism and legal issues). Traditional publishers will not publish a book until it has been polished and is worthy to carry their imprint.
So those are the negatives.

The trouble is, of course, to get published by a traditional publisher these days is monumentally hard. Getting an agent even tougher, we should all live so long. Add to the mix that many titles are mid-list (ie: publishable but not quite worthy of a marketing push) so they don’t get printed, or the authors are dropped for sexier, pretty chick lit writers. Been there, bought their T-Shirt ... d’oh.

The POD market is then, quite often the only way to get noticed. However, you are in the same swimming pool as the kid who pees a lot and somehow you have to seperate yourself from the person who just prints any old thing without due care and attention for plotting, spelling, punctuation, narrative structure and the reader. Remember many of these companies run no quality control whatsoever. It is empowering for the writer but in the end, people will only buy if they perceive they are getting a work of quality.

So why and how?
The internet helps. If you have chosen a printer/publisher wisely and your book is edited, well put together with a decent cover that truly reflects the contents; and your sample chapter (which many companies will allow people to read) is enticing enough; several things might happen.

One – search engines will pick it up and if people are browsing for a particular type of book, it might pick it up.
Two: Your book better look good, sound good (via the blurb) read well, via the sample chapter and the browser must be used to ordering using a credit card and then experiencing the delay (a week or more) for the book to actually arrive.
Three: This has to happen hundreds of times for you to make any money.
Speaking as someone who hates browsing, even in a bookshop, I think it is a miracle when we sell even one book on line. As a reader I quite like to read reviews first so I can decide. Or better yet, automatically buy titles by my favourite authors (Haruki Murakami, William Gibson, Alexander McCall Smith (if they’re are set in Botswana)).
But if you, like me, are not anyones’ favourite author, we aren’t automatically being reviewed, we aren’t in the bookshops when people need a book to read ‘right now’.
So we need good tools, a particular kind of buyer (a patient one) and a good quality book. If the book is good enough, (not just for the reader), but as a stand alone quality print with a good sturdy cover, then if your lone reader likes it, they are also the type of person to recommend it to someone else. (I know I do) This is a slow, but incremental way to grow your reputation. You have to be teeth grindingly patient, but it can work.
So who do you go to to print it, edit it, lay it out? Design the cover.
I’m only recommending two publishing options here. One I have been through personally and another because they do seem to offer a similar service and appear ‘straight’

After much investigation and dialogue with several companies I decided to do the following. I wanted my book to look just so, be laid out just right and most POD companies will not allow you to submit a PDF. They want it in Word and they just sort of chuck on the page complete with lots of strays and windows that just look bloody awful. You cannot lay out a book in Word. It will not look good.

If you do go the PDF route there really is only one company you can go with and caveat empor, you better make sure there is more than one pair of eyes on that manuscript. It is sooooo easy to make simple errors: punctuation, spelling, syntax, factual errors, time, place, names anything might trip you up.

In a novel there are a million mistakes to be made and corrected. In an historical novel more so. I have woken up in a sweat at night because I cannot remember if there was a train station in a particular city in that year or not, or if a newspaper was published in 1872 or 1873. They may seem like minor points, but believe me, someone always knows more than you and can pick them out. (And let you know most likely).

So you need an editor you can trust, you need someone to lay it out in quark express and also have Acrobat Writer to hand so it can be saved as a PDF. Then you need to read it again. Many cities – for example Vancouver, Cape Town , Melbourne, have a list or association of editors, (speak to your local librarian) all who whom will work freelance for a very reasonable fee. And this is money worth spending.

If you want to design your own cover do so. (I have always hated my covers of my previous books - so I really wanted to try to get it right.) I spent several useful days in Vancouver Library going through their wonderful collection of photographic images from 1860 onwards. If you find one, and I did, you have to buy the rights. But at least you will have the right image you want. You can find places like these libraries with original research material via the internet or perhaps your local University.

Again you have to lay your cover out in quark and my designer Dominic in SA did a wonderful job for me. (But save it as a .jpg curiously for sending to the publisher)
OK. So then, you have to follow the on-line instructions ‘precisely’!

My choice of publisher was www.lulu.com

These are my reasons for going with them.
1: No upfront costs –whatsoever.
2: They will accept PDF files (here’s a warning not as left and right pages, but as single pages, it’s a quirk of POD machines)
They will also accept Word files and lay it out for you, but I prefer not to do that.
2: They will allow you to upload your own cover (or design one for you at a reasonable rate or supply you with an image from their ever growing image bank.)
3: You can upload and delete as many times as you like until you get it just right. But and here’s a big but. Once you say yes....that’s it and it gets expensive to fix thereafter except by publishing a new edition and starting all over again.
What is interesting about lulu.com is that is appears to be entirely manned by robots.
There is customer support, but essentially you do all the work and they just print your book. So essentially they are the printer. There is a Forum – an online community of Lulu authors swapping notes and suggestions and this is very useful. Support can be a bit slow however which can cause minor irritations.
4: For a price, you can have two levels of ‘publishing’.
a: A basic ISBN number printed on your cover (make sure you left a big space for that) for just under $40 bucks or ISBN plus which gets your book listed on search engines, Amazon, Barnes and Noble and in the distribution list at Bertrams. This costs $176 which includes a proof copy of your book. Best to go with this option.
Check your proof carefully. I had to do two proofs as the ISBN number over printed on a detail and left a ragged edge.
5: They provide you with a shop where you book is listed and a web storefront where your books is listed and you can say something about yourself, your book and link to a review if you have one. You can put what you like there, within reason.
6: Your book is available as a printed book or e-book even spiral bound if it is a slim volume. I’d rather people chose the printed book, as although the e-book would be my PDF, who the hell wants to print off 280 pages and read them loose like that? OK it is cheaper but hey, that’s too cheap plus there’s the ink!
7: Now you have to sell it. Lulu don’t sell books. They print them. You have to sell it.
Your mother-in-law for example. She needs at least ten copies. So you have to tell people it is there. If you have a website, great, if you don’t, create one.
It isn’t going to make you rich. It might make your cat proud, but you aren’t doing this to make money. Here’s a tip. Join a writer’s group. Read them from your book. Who knows, they might tell others. It’s a start.
8: Delivery and Shipping:
If you are reading this in the USA, you don’t have a problem, Lulu are great. If you live overseas, it is quite expensive to get small amounts of your book. My tip is for you to contact you local shipper. You’d have to buy a least a hundred copies to make it worth your while (and hope you can sell them) but your local shipper will have contacts in the USA and believe me, I saved 500 dollars on shipping alone by doing it my way. So don’t panic, it can be done. Why import them? Well your local area is probably the only place where you could reasonably be expected to sell copies of your book, to people who know you or know of you. So you can reach them. Otherwise, leave it to the internet to help you sell. It will or it won’t.
9: What does the book look like?
Exactly as it should. The inside pages are clear and the paper is of good quality, the cover seems robust, or at least similar to other mass paperbacks (There is no hardback option). It feels hefty (it should do at 6 x 9 inches) and showing the proof copy around, it has garnered favourable impressions and promises of orders once I have imported them. I am selling at cost (because I am mainly selling to students) but you could try to add a buck if you wanted . What is cost? The price of the book to you, the author, plus the cost of shipping divided by 100 (If you bought a hundred)
10: Where is the best place to buy it? from Lulu of course. They sell it at the lowest price plus shipping. But it will also be available at Amazon and others at the retail price set by you or by Lulu, (your choice) and they can buy and sell, just like any other bookseller can at discount. Lulu have thought things through pretty well and have around 5000 authors these days. *It takes about six weeks from proof approval to be in the system at Amazon and others.
So where can you buy my book? Here of course: Buy it and judge for yourself.

You can explore what Lulu can do for you here as well.
So who else do I recommend, where you will not be ripped off or pay anything up front and get a quality book. www.pabd.com
But, as I stated before, I haven’t used them, but I hear good things.

I won’t recommend anyone else at all.

*Colin Todhunter another Hackwriter author now uses Lulu and he recommends them

 

[Sabledrake]

We've been very happy with Lightning Source. Done several books with them, got two more coming out this summer. But LS is just a printer; they don't offer the other assorted services like some POD companies. We have to do all the page layout, cover design, and other work ourselves. Still, I've been very pleased with the promptness of their process and the look of the finished books.

-- Sabledrake

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Do these POD companies require an initial purchase minimum? Surely they don't do just one at a time.

I actually have two complete novels, both of which need some serious attention before going to print, but I'd absolutely love to see one of them in particular in black and white. Also, I promised matriarch I would give it a shot and I think she'll be happy with a coffee table copy for herself.

Gosh, I only have questions tonight. Anyone that's worked with an actual publisher/editor know if they're more apt to give your work some attention if it's already been heavily tweaked and in some form of print?



~lucky (clueless)

 

[yui]

Do these POD companies require an initial purchase minimum? Surely they don't do just one at a time.

I actually have two complete novels, both of which need some serious attention before going to print, but I'd absolutely love to see one of them in particular in black and white. Also, I promised matriarch I would give it a shot and I think she'll be happy with a coffee table copy for herself.

Gosh, I only have questions tonight. Anyone that's worked with an actual publisher/editor know if they're more apt to give your work some attention if it's already been heavily tweaked and in some form of print?



~lucky (clueless)

No, lucky, with certain POD companies you can print just one copy if you like. Nifty, eh?

Luck,

Yui

 

[lucky-E-leven]

No, lucky, with certain POD companies you can print just one copy if you like. Nifty, eh?

Luck,

Yui

Wow! That, I did not know! Verra, verra COOL!

Thanks, Yui.

So, if I pay to get a few printed up, will you come buy one from me out of a van down by the river?

~lucky

 

[yui]

Wow! That, I did not know! Verra, verra COOL!

Thanks, Yui.

So, if I pay to get a few printed up, will you come buy one from me out of a van down by the river?

~lucky

I'm so infatuated with you and vella that I would probably buy anything you are selling...

 

[lucky-E-leven]

I'm so infatuated with you and vella that I would probably buy anything you are selling...

I'm afraid anything sold by vella and I is going to need a Novelty label.

You seem to know quite a bit about this POD thing. Have you heard of any besides the two mentioned here (CafePress & Lightning Source)? I'm suddenly very interested in this whole idea. I never knew such a thing existed.



~lucky

(Too bad you're straight, says vella & Lucky.)

 

[matriarch]

Do these POD companies require an initial purchase minimum? Surely they don't do just one at a time.

I actually have two complete novels, both of which need some serious attention before going to print, but I'd absolutely love to see one of them in particular in black and white. Also, I promised matriarch I would give it a shot and I think she'll be happy with a coffee table copy for herself.

Gosh, I only have questions tonight. Anyone that's worked with an actual publisher/editor know if they're more apt to give your work some attention if it's already been heavily tweaked and in some form of print?



~lucky (clueless)

Glad to see you take note of my comments, babe.

 

[angela146]

It sounds like there is a two-tiered system:

Tier 1 would be companies like Cafe Press and Lightning Source. They print the book but do not do editing, marketing, ISBN numbering etc.

Tier 2 would be companies like BookPublisher.com (see a list of sample companies at www.lightningsource.com/ResourcesLinks.htm#AuthorServicesLinks). They seem to provide marketing, copyright registration, registration with LoC, and ISBN prefix and listing in Amazon, B&N etc.

I have not done much research into Tier 2 companies.

 

[snooper]

... I have not done much research into Tier 2 companies.

I have, and they all want hundreds of dollars/pounds/euros up front.

 

[impressive]

It sounds like there is a two-tiered system:

Tier 1 would be companies like Cafe Press and Lightning Source. They print the book but do not do editing, marketing, ISBN numbering etc.

Tier 2 would be companies like BookPublisher.com (see a list of sample companies at www.lightningsource.com/ResourcesLinks.htm#AuthorServicesLinks). They seem to provide marketing, copyright registration, registration with LoC, and ISBN prefix and listing in Amazon, B&N etc.

I have not done much research into Tier 2 companies.

Tier 1 is just fine with me. I set up an accounts at Cafe Press and Lulu yesterday ("Erotic Anthology") and am proceeding with plans to "publish." I'd be happy to collaborate with other AHers in this venture -- authors AND illustrators.

Live and learn.

 

[Boota]

I published through Authorhouse for $498 initial set up fees, besides extra options that I seleceted. I took their options because it was stuff I would have had to find another company to do anyway. It was easier to stay completely in-house.

www.authorhouse.com

If you want to check them out.

As long as you don't go in thinking these POD companies are something they are not you'll probably be fairly satisfied with them.

 

[angela146]

Tier 1 is just fine with me. I set up an accounts at Cafe Press and Lulu yesterday ("Erotic Anthology") and am proceeding with plans to "publish." I'd be happy to collaborate with other AHers in this venture -- authors AND illustrators.

Live and learn.

If you are putting together an anthology, I would love to be part of it. Please let me know (via PM) what kind of story you might be interested in and what length.

Thanks...

 

[impressive]

If you are putting together an anthology, I would love to be part of it. Please let me know (via PM) what kind of story you might be interested in and what length.

Thanks...

I am -- and anyone interested can PM me with their interest in participating. Depending on the responses, I may use polls here to have folks vote on what should be included. I'm just doing layout -- NOT editing others' work.

This, I must emphasize, will not be a huge money maker. With at least a dozen authors, we'll each only earn pennies on each sale. (Charity would be my preferred destination for this money -- and that makes it look philanthropic rather than hard up for publication.) No -- this is a "get your name in print" venture only. Novelty for some. Practice for some. Padding a writer's resume for others. I hope it turns out to be fun, too.