Pms?

[AlwaysBeTrue]

My thoughts

Ok, just jumping in with my thoughts on the essay. I am not going to attempt to wade threw all the comments on this thread. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Make your opinion known and appreciate what others say. Its sort of what makes the world go round right?

My thoughts are simple. The essay was interesting. As a woman I learned about options I never knew where available to me. Does that mean I will run out and start using them? No. It means I have alot to concider and digest. But I very much appreciate the view that the essay gave. And down the line there is a good chance I will make some changes if I feel they will help me in some way.

No matter what I am always happy to see other peoples views and wont attack or belittle them for the way they see things.

Thanks for a well written essay.

 

[impressive]

Um ... damn, y'all.

 

[Liar]

Um ... damn, y'all.

Yeah. I'm with imp.

 

[sophia jane]

A question about the essay, and I'll fully admit to skimming cuz I'm tired and lazy. You mentioned several diseases at the opening of your essay (pcos, etc)- are you linking these diseases to current trends like birth control and menstrual products? If not, why did you mention the diseases? Just curious.

Quoting myself cuz I think my question got lost at the bottom of the page.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

You mentioned several diseases at the opening of your essay (pcos, etc)- are you linking these diseases to current trends like birth control and menstrual products? If not, why did you mention the diseases? Just curious.

I believe there is a strong mind/body connection... there are of course no definitive studies "proving" that our lifestyles, the use of plastic and bleached products, the increased use of hormones through birth control pills or controlling menopause symptoms with estrogen replacement, have any connection to the rise in cancer, endometriosis, pcos, etc... but I do believe there is a connection, certainly correlationally, if not directly causally...

 

[sophia jane]

I believe there is a strong mind/body connection... there are of course no definitive studies "proving" that our lifestyles, the use of plastic and bleached products, the increased use of hormones through birth control pills or controlling menopause symptoms with estrogen replacement, have any connection to the rise in cancer, endometriosis, pcos, etc... but I do believe there is a connection, certainly correlationally, if not directly causally...

I see.
I don't at all agree with this, especially without proof of a correlation. Yes, it is true that some diseases are caused, or are more common, because of certain behaviors. But there are some that we really can't do anything about. And to make such an implication places blame on the woman if she has such a disease. There's history of ovarian cancer and cysts in my family, so there's a strong chance that I will, one day, have to worry about cancer of pcos. And that's through no fault of mine that there's a family history there.

I also find it interesting to mention pcos and hormone birth control pills together; the pill is actually now thought to ease the symptoms of pcos and make life more bearable for women who suffer from it and is the most common treatment of pcos.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Yes, it is true that some diseases are caused, or are more common, because of certain behaviors. But there are some that we really can't do anything about. And to make such an implication places blame on the woman if she has such a disease.

I don't think we're going to see any major widespread studies about the correlational or causal "proof" of any of the above. The major studies are funded by big business, and if big business doesn't see a profit in it, they're not going to fund it. (and gov't is the biggest business of all )

It's not about blame... like Pure indicated... just because I say, "Raspberry tea may help cramps" doesn't mean I'm saying "If you don't drink raspberry tea, you're going to get cramps." Just because there may be as association between the increase of various feminine diseases and the use of synthetic menstrual products, doesn't mean if you don't start using cloth pads, you are going to get cancer.

 

[Pure]

To ask the question:

I would like to hear something about the main points of the essay, from which I've reproduced a few key excerpts below. Ms. 3113 addressed them a bit, but not many others. As I read Selina, she is basically saying:

1) Women stand to gain by being more in touch with their bodies, esp. during 'moon times' (menstruation). (Some rituals are described.)

2) They've 'lost' through lots of medical interventions, drug regimes, 'feminine hygeine,' and modern-life style choices.

3) That possible gain may occur through 'inner growth: with meditation and reflection at that time they can access the deepest part of themselves, including intuition and creativity.

Ms 3113, on the contrary, suggests, as I read her, that paying this sort of attention to the biological event is not rewarding for her, and it's more interesting to go on with life.

Obviously there will be vast invidual diffs, and I can imagine that's true esp. if there are problems; where there's lots of pain, e.g through endometriosis, I can see someone saying, "Hooray for the drugs that 'defeat' effects of this biological event! I do NOT want to get more in touch with it, thank you." 'Pill'-[OC]based regimes may be felt as a real blessing, for certain women, in essentially eliminating genuine menstruation, if not suppressing it entirely [through continuous pill usage for months at a time].

I realize, that Selena, in terms of her theses is expressing certain values; as a child of 'psychology,' she esteems 'inner work' and its results. Obviously, if someone disagrees with these values, then that person won't 'buy' the prescription: some doers may ignore that 'inner work' and never crack a volume of Jung or VonFranz.

Still, in general terms, and for most, is S 'on the money' (according to your experience) in holding that there's an opportunity, at 'moon time,' for personal, particularly, inner gains? Would you encourage your daughter to have this approach?

Inquiring minds want to know....


====
A few excerpts form Selina's essay:

It is a powerful and potent time for women, and it is being lost with every generation that goes by that does not honor it.

We tell young girls that periods shouldn't get in the way of exercising, having fun, and enjoying life, but do we tell them that their moon time is sacred, special, and an opportunity for amazing inner work and growth?

Aside from the environmental, cost and health benefits involved in switching from commercial products to reusable ones, the biggest gain women find is how much more connected they feel to their bodies and how differently they come to think about their moon time.

Your body is telling you things, if you take the time to listen. Women are insightful during this time. If allowed the freedom to flow, rather than being stopped up, irritability and irrationality become creative sparks and intuition. Some women experience vivid dreams during menstruation, and it is the body's way of trying to reach her, to invite her into the dream world within.

This can be a time of deep self-reflection and meditation. If allowed to be quiet and open during this time, instead of "busy" and "productive," the gifts women can bring one another, their families, friends and communities are innumerable. It is a time of renewal and opening. If women can tap the power of this time in their lives, they will discover access to the deepest parts of themselves.

 

[cloudy]

A few excerpts form Selina's essay:

It is a powerful and potent time for women, and it is being lost with every generation that goes by that does not honor it.

We tell young girls that periods shouldn't get in the way of exercising, having fun, and enjoying life, but do we tell them that their moon time is sacred, special, and an opportunity for amazing inner work and growth?

Aside from the environmental, cost and health benefits involved in switching from commercial products to reusable ones, the biggest gain women find is how much more connected they feel to their bodies and how differently they come to think about their moon time.

Your body is telling you things, if you take the time to listen. Women are insightful during this time. If allowed the freedom to flow, rather than being stopped up, irritability and irrationality become creative sparks and intuition. Some women experience vivid dreams during menstruation, and it is the body's way of trying to reach her, to invite her into the dream world within.

This can be a time of deep self-reflection and meditation. If allowed to be quiet and open during this time, instead of "busy" and "productive," the gifts women can bring one another, their families, friends and communities are innumerable. It is a time of renewal and opening. If women can tap the power of this time in their lives, they will discover access to the deepest parts of themselves.

Okay, I'll play.

It's not my "moon time," it's my period, menstruation, whatever. If it works for Selena to think of it the way she does, fine. I have no problem with it.

My main objection is that it reads like so much new-age hogwash that's out there (not that it's hogwash to you, Selena, but you have to understand my perspective, coming from where I do). There's so much out there like that. Even S&D alluded to it with his reference that I, of all people, should understand because I'm American Indian.

Pfffffffft!

If women were to take time off from work for their "moon time," how long would it be before women, in general, were back to being treated as lesser than men?

If I was quiet and reflective during that time, I would hurt. Exercise has been proven to relieve the cramps that go along with it. I feel MUCH better if I keep up with my normal day-to-day activities, even upping them some to get some relief.

For me, it's simply biology, that's all. I don't want to lose wages, respect, or anything else that women before us have worked so hard to make sure we have those opportunities, by taking days off to "reflect." If you don't work, or work in an industry where you can, go for it.

The only reason women looked forward to sitting in those menstrual huts was that they had the opportunity to gather with their friends, and skip work for those days. I promise you, they weren't being "quiet and reflective."

What makes you think that it would be looked upon any differently today?

 

[Guest]

Okay, I'll play.

It's not my "moon time," it's my period, menstruation, whatever. If it works for Selena to think of it the way she does, fine. I have no problem with it.

My main objection is that it reads like so much new-age hogwash that's out there (not that it's hogwash to you, Selena, but you have to understand my perspective, coming from where I do). There's so much out there like that. Even S&D alluded to it with his reference that I, of all people, should understand because I'm American Indian.

Pfffffffft!

If women were to take time off from work for their "moon time," how long would it be before women, in general, were back to being treated as lesser than men?

If I was quiet and reflective during that time, I would hurt. Exercise has been proven to relieve the cramps that go along with it. I feel MUCH better if I keep up with my normal day-to-day activities, even upping them some to get some relief.

For me, it's simply biology, that's all. I don't want to lose wages, respect, or anything else that women before us have worked so hard to make sure we have those opportunities, by taking days off to "reflect." If you don't work, or work in an industry where you can, go for it.

The only reason women looked forward to sitting in those menstrual huts was that they had the opportunity to gather with their friends, and skip work for those days. I promise you, they weren't being "quiet and reflective."

What makes you think that it would be looked upon any differently today?

Cloudy, cloudy, cloudy. You unenlightened soul.

Don't you know that being able to velcro mini-diapers to your bloomers a few days a month somehow makes you at one with the earth? That dealing with cramps, mood swings and the occasional wild hormonal rush teaches you how to be a true woman?

Ask your husband, because he can certainly aid in your journey, in your education of womanhoodiness.

You don't want to have to turn in your chick card, do you?

 

[Liar]

From my lady, reading the thread over my shoulder:

Menstruation tells me two things. a) I'm a woman. And b) I might one day bear children. But...wait...I know that already. I'm fully aware of all that it means, physically, spiritually and personally, to be a woman. If somebody feels a need for rituals, go right ahead. But I don't need a monthly meditation session to reinforce what's already a corner stone of my identity.


As a clueless bloke, that didn't help me much, but maybe it makes sense to you wimmin.

Uh-oh, she's still reading over my shoulder.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Cloudy, cloudy, cloudy. You unenlightened soul.

Don't you know that being able to velcro mini-diapers to your bloomers a few days a month somehow makes you at one with the earth? That dealing with cramps, mood swings and the occasional wild hormonal rush teaches you how to be a true woman?

Ask your husband, because he can certainly aid in your journey, in your education of womanhoodiness.

You don't want to have to turn in your chick card, do you?

*snerk*

Sarah, I love you to pieces.

I've remained quiet on this thread until now because I didn't want to get in the middle of the shit-storm, but I think sometimes, I'm too quiet.

Selena, if what you say in the essay is how you feel, more power to you, but I agree with the others that say you could work on the tone and approach a bit. You come across as slightly preachy instead of just as someone who has an opinion about something and wants to share it with the masses.

Having said that, here's my reaction to the essay: Moon-time? Okay, so I know where the phrase comes from, but I definitely don't consider mine sacred or special or wonderful or any of those other synonyms. I hate it. I abhor it. I hate the lower back pain that always accompanies it along with the pain and tenderness I get in an area that should never be tender unless I've had some fabulous sex. I think it's messy and yucky, and there's no way in hell I'd collect it in a plastic cup in order to feed plants with it. They do make fertilizer, you know.

If it's something you enjoy, that's all great and wonderful for you, but I think some of your ideas are rather impractical for the modern woman, and I think there are many who wouldn't jump on the bandwagon no matter how the ideas were presented. No offense to you intended, Selena, just my honest opinion as a woman.

 

[sophia jane]

I have to agree with Cloudy on this. It's my period. It's not something I cherish or want to spend time pondering. It's just my period. It happens every 21 days, and I go on with my life.
I also have to agree with Cloudy that taking time off to reflect, etc is not necessarily going to help progress for women. Men already think that women call into work for their periods (which they do cuz women know they can get away with exploiting it). Personally, I don't want to be seen as dependable 3/4 weeks of the month. I want to be respected all the time, and if that means I have to use tampons and go on my way, so be it.

 

[Samandiriel]

I have a vagina.
I don't need a lecture on how to be a woman.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Still, in general terms, and for most, is S 'on the money' (according to your experience) in holding that there's an opportunity, at 'moon time,' for personal, particularly, inner gains? Would you encourage your daughter to have this approach?

thanks for trying, Pure...