Pms?

[Selena_Kitt]

I seem to have pissed off the female population in regards to menstruation and the possibility that maybe we should actually honor the feminine for this instead of shame her?

I've never had such a reaction... and the interesting thing is, MEN are responding in huge numbers to say they thing it's a great idea... while women are biting my head off!

The essays here: Moon Time: Curse or Blessing?

it's probably a good thing I'll drop off the top of the "new" list tomorrow!

 

[LadyAria]

I seem to have pissed off the female population in regards to menstruation and the possibility that maybe we should actually honor the feminine for this instead of shame her?

I've never had such a reaction... and the interesting thing is, MEN are responding in huge numbers to say they thing it's a great idea... while women are biting my head off!

The essays here: Moon Time: Curse or Blessing?

it's probably a good thing I'll drop off the top of the "new" list tomorrow!

It this is a topic that interests you. You should check out Museum of Menstruation

 

[3113]

I think the problem was tone. I can see where some might feel that you were chastizing them for not wanting to do what you suggest. On the one hand, you're clearly urging women who may have a hard time of the month to not make it so hard on themselves--to relax and meditate, and re-discover themselves as women. To be willing to admit that there is this time of the month and they need to pamper themselves when it comes around.

BUT, there is the flip side, which is women who view this as biology, pure and simple. I think, tone wise, they might have felt that you were telling them to be ashamed of themselves for using tampons and going on with their lives, for not putting on the breaks and viewing this time of the month as special. Your tone does imply a certain superiority in your view, and a distain of those who just want to wear a tampon and forget about it. You imply that those who go on with their lives are giving into the "lonliness" and shame of menstruation established in the past--that's kind of a sweeping assumption there.

The blood flows because a baby isn't gestating in the womb and the womb has to eject it. Some might ask: "In what way is that anything special enough to deserve my valuable time?" And if they do feel that way, why should they be lectured and told that they're thinking of this all wrong? Likely they're being overly sensitive, but women get a lot of advice these days on how to be right-thinking about themselves and their bodies. They can be put on the defensive very quickly, even if the intent was sincere, well thought out and from the heart.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

wow, that's a really a good point!

That is definitely my bias... probably should have just said that up front

 

[Sex and Death]

I think the problem was tone. I can see where some might feel that you were chastizing them for not wanting to do what you suggest. On the one hand, you're clearly urging women who may have a hard time of the month to not make it so hard on themselves--to relax and meditate, and re-discover themselves as women. To be willing to admit that there is this time of the month and they need to pamper themselves when it comes around.

BUT, there is the flip side, which is women who view this as biology, pure and simple. I think, tone wise, they might have felt that you were telling them to be ashamed of themselves for using tampons and going on with their lives, for not putting on the breaks and viewing this time of the month as special. Your tone does imply a certain superiority in your view, and a distain of those who just want to wear a tampon and forget about it. You imply that those who go on with their lives are giving into the "lonliness" and shame of menstruation established in the past--that's kind of a sweeping assumption there.

The blood flows because a baby isn't gestating in the womb and the womb has to eject it. Some might ask: "In what way is that anything special enough to deserve my valuable time?" And if they do feel that way, why should they be lectured and told that they're thinking of this all wrong? Likely they're being overly sensitive, but women get a lot of advice these days on how to be right-thinking about themselves and their bodies. They can be put on the defensive very quickly, even if the intent was sincere, well thought out and from the heart.

I agree that she is advocating a deeper and "less unexamined" perspective on women's menstrual cycles.

I think women should be lectured on the deeper aspects of being a woman. Men and women devalue the feminine (and masculine) in this culture. The superficiality and mediocrity of the majority is offensive, tiresome and ugly.

As a man, I find a woman who finds value, beauty and depth in all the apsects of her femininity more attractive, sexy and sensual than a woman who ignores or denies reality. If contemporary science and technology is aimed at ridding women of aspects of their feminine nature becuase those aspects are seen as inconveniences to "modern" life, then such science and technology is doing us a disservice. Just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should.

Only women can redeem the deeper aspects of the feminine. I want my daughters to have more women like Kittyn in their lives.

S&D

Addendum: I suppose I should state my bias. I appreciate women who are more feminine than masculine and who embrace their feminine nature without apology. I feel Kittyn's essay is more deeply grounded in the feminine heart and soul than the views of any of her detractors so far.

I also find the defensive criticism he ressay has received, and she personally has received, to be interesting. She has certainly touched a nerve of her detractors.

 

[amicus]

SelenaKittyn]I seem to have pissed off the female population in regards to menstruation and the possibility that maybe we should actually honor the feminine for this instead of shame her?

I've never had such a reaction... and the interesting thing is, MEN are responding in huge numbers to say they thing it's a great idea... while women are biting my head off!

The essays here: Moon Time: Curse or Blessing?

it's probably a good thing I'll drop off the top of the "new" list tomorrow!

[/I]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Excellent essay and Post, Selena, thank you. I think a lot of people do not like to be reminded that we are basically animal by nature. I think they prefer to think of humans as all equal automatons who function with machine like precision and are not subject to emotions and bodily functions.

Also, I think you may, in a way, be telling 'women's secrets', admitting to a liability, or a perceived liability and perhaps they don't want to hear that it can be managed.

Well done!

amicus...

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I seem to have pissed off the female population in regards to menstruation and the possibility that maybe we should actually honor the feminine for this instead of shame her?

I've never had such a reaction... and the interesting thing is, MEN are responding in huge numbers to say they thing it's a great idea... while women are biting my head off!

The essays here: Moon Time: Curse or Blessing?

it's probably a good thing I'll drop off the top of the "new" list tomorrow!

Oh damn, my dsylexia kicked in...I thought the topic of the thread was PM's...

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I think they prefer to think of humans as all equal automatons who function with machine like precision

Thanks, Ami... I guess that was part of my point... we so don't have "time" for something as "annoying" as menstruation in our lives... but we aren't machines...

you guys have been so sweet to go RCV it...

 

[Norajane]

I agree with 3113 - it was the tone of the essay, like if women didn't see it your way there's something wrong with them and their views.

*shrug*

I've been using a menstrual cup for the last year or so because it's even more convenient than pads or tampons, and certainly much less expensive over time. I haven't really felt any differently about my period, though, in any sort of spiritual, mystical, or connected to the earth sense.



And frankly, now after reading amicus's view and your reply, I'm offended where your essay didn't offend. That I don't revel in my period each month, water my plants with blood, or take two days off each month to rest and reflect has absolutely nothing to do with my not wanting to be reminded of body functions or that I prefer to think of myself as an automoton without emotion. WTF?


Edit to add: SelenaKytten, I've bumped our menstrual hut thread, ladies welcome.

 

[Sex and Death]

[/I]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Excellent essay and Post, Selena, thank you. I think a lot of people do not like to be reminded that we are basically animal by nature. I think they prefer to think of humans as all equal automatons who function with machine like precision and are not subject to emotions and bodily functions.

Also, I think you may, in a way, be telling 'women's secrets', admitting to a liability, or a perceived liability and perhaps they don't want to hear that it can be managed.

Well done!

amicus...

Amicus,

Yes.

Our basic animal nature helps to remind us of the incredible differences between men and women, masculine and feminine, and decries the hidden danger and agenda of "equality."

Our culture is trying to find cures for menstruation, childbirth and wombs as if they were diseases or pathological anomalies. Our culture is aslo trying to cure the aggressive soul of boys as if it were a plague, too. This culturally sanctioned defeminization of women and emasculation of men has lead to a culture of women who have become masculinized and men who have become feminized.

The repercussions of our cultural gender agendas are so much deeper than birth control, equal pay, maternity leave for dads and metrosexual men.

S&D

 

[Norajane]

I think women should be lectured on the deeper aspects of being a woman.

Lectured? You really think we don't talk and learn and empathize and laugh and cry about every detail of being a woman? We need someone else to tell us how meaningful it is to be a woman?


https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=376799&page=1&pp=25


But, hey, thanks for your concern.

 

[cloudy]

I think women should be lectured on the deeper aspects of being a woman.

WTF?

I'm sorry, but this is got to be one of the most offensive things I've ever seen. I suppose you can tell me how to be a woman??????

I don't need to be "lectured," thankyouverymuch.

 

[Sex and Death]

Lectured? You really think we don't talk and learn and empathize and laugh and cry about every detail of being a woman? We need someone else to tell us how meaningful it is to be a woman?


https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=376799&page=1&pp=25


But, hey, thanks for your concern.

You're welcome. I feel appreciated.

I think, culturally speaking, you need women and men who understand femininity more deeply than our culture reflects to teach that deeper, more meaningful perspective. I think the inverse is true for men in our culture.

 

[Sex and Death]

WTF?

I'm sorry, but this is got to be one of the most offensive things I've ever seen. I suppose you can tell me how to be a woman??????

I don't need to be "lectured," thankyouverymuch.

There are men who could teach women how to be more congruent with their feminine nature, yes. And women who could teach men how to be more true to their masculine nature.

Based on your response, I don't imagine you would be open to such a possibility, though, Cloudy.

As a Native American woman, you have more access than most to cultural contexts of undilluted femininity and masculinity.

 

[cloudy]

There are men who could teach women how to be more congruent with their feminine nature, yes. And women who could teach men how to be more true to their masculine nature.

Based on your response, I don't imagine you would be open to such a possibility, though, Cloudy.

As a Native American woman, you have more access than most to cultural contexts of undilluted feminity and masculinity.

You're right, I don't think there is a man alive who could teach me a damn thing about being a woman - how could they?

Native American: Roles were much more blurred than you think they were. Besides, here's a hint: THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO. They even have electricity on the rez now.

I'm glad I'm female, wouldn't want to be a man. Don't get me wrong. If Selena feels the way she does, good and well, but it's awfully presumptuous to assume that one way is the only right way.

 

[Guest]

There are men who could teach women how to be more congruent with their feminine nature, yes. And women who could teach men how to be more true to their masculine nature.

Based on your response, I don't imagine you would be open to such a possibility, though, Cloudy.

As a Native American woman, you have more access than most to cultural contexts of undilluted femininity and masculinity.

Excuse me.

I don't believe I could teach my husband anything about getting in touch with his masculine side. Nor do I believe he has a handle on aiding me in dealing with feminine issues.

And your previous statement is indeed one of the most offensive things I have ever read. Even including ami's usual drivel.

I look forward to other women reading and commenting. You just may be surprised at the level of distaste you are about to earn.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

If Selena feels the way she does, good and well, but it's awfully presumptuous to assume that one way is the only right way.

If no one takes a stand, then nothing ever changes.

In a world where everything and everyone is PC, where no one wants to step on anyone else's toes, and we're all very careful to make sure it's all equal and fair... something gets lost. "It's all good" is a slippery slope...

Someone has to decide not to ride in the back of the bus anymore.

One of Maya Angelou's quotes always struck me about this: "When you know better, you do better." There is a qualitative difference, or can be, in our lives when it comes to cultural mandates... this one clearly hits close to home for many, at least from the feedback I've gotten so far... menstruation is far more taboo, a "dirty little secret," than people would believe...

which makes our cultural view of it even more insidious, really. We don't even realize what we're missing, and even when someone points it out, we either turn a blind eye... or we defend our cultural position, because it's the only one we know.

 

[Guest]

If no one takes a stand, then nothing ever changes.

In a world where everything and everyone is PC, where no one wants to step on anyone else's toes, and we're all very careful to make sure it's all equal and fair... something gets lost. "It's all good" is a slippery slope...

Someone has to decide not to ride in the back of the bus anymore.

One of Maya Angelou's quotes always struck me about this: "When you know better, you do better." There is a qualitative difference, or can be, in our lives when it comes to cultural mandates... this one clearly hits close to home for many, at least from the feedback I've gotten so far... menstruation is far more taboo, a "dirty little secret," than people would believe...

which makes our cultural view of it even more insidious, really. We don't even realize what we're missing, and even when someone points it out, we either turn a blind eye... or we defend our cultural position, because it's the only one we know.

Selena, believe that if you wish, but that isn't the case here.

 

[cloudy]

If no one takes a stand, then nothing ever changes.

In a world where everything and everyone is PC, where no one wants to step on anyone else's toes, and we're all very careful to make sure it's all equal and fair... something gets lost. "It's all good" is a slippery slope...

Someone has to decide not to ride in the back of the bus anymore.

One of Maya Angelou's quotes always struck me about this: "When you know better, you do better." There is a qualitative difference, or can be, in our lives when it comes to cultural mandates... this one clearly hits close to home for many, at least from the feedback I've gotten so far... menstruation is far more taboo, a "dirty little secret," than people would believe...

which makes our cultural view of it even more insidious, really. We don't even realize what we're missing, and even when someone points it out, we either turn a blind eye... or we defend our cultural position, because it's the only one we know.

So, what makes YOUR way the right way?

It may be right for you. Good. Fine. Doesn't mean it's right for everyone else.

Comparing yourself to Rosa Parks? Such arrogance is astounding.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I don't believe I could teach my husband anything about getting in touch with his masculine side. Nor do I believe he has a handle on aiding me in dealing with feminine issues.

well I think we should be careful about differentiating between "masculine" and "male" and "feminine" and "female."

I know a lot of women who animate a lot more masculine energy and vice versa. I don't think men are the only ones who can teach about what it is to be masculine, and I don't think women are the only ones who can teach about what it is to be feminine.

I know a great many men who have a wealth of knowledge about the feminine... and a great many women who have a wealth of knowledge about the masculine. Should we not hear them, simply because of their gender? (where's the horsie when I need him? lol)

We all have these qualities within us... masculine and feminine, both...

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Comparing yourself to Rosa Parks? Such arrogance is astounding.

That's what they said to Rosa Parks.

What makes ANY stand any less important than that one?

 

[BlackSnake]

Oh damn, my dsylexia kicked in...I thought the topic of the thread was PM's...

HAHAHAHA! I did too...

 

[Guest]

well I think we should be careful about differentiating between "masculine" and "male" and "feminine" and "female."

I know a lot of women who animate a lot more masculine energy and vice versa. I don't think men are the only ones who can teach about what it is to be masculine, and I don't think women are the only ones who can teach about what it is to be feminine.

I know a great many men who have a wealth of knowledge about the feminine... and a great many women who have a wealth of knowledge about the masculine. Should we not hear them, simply because of their gender? (where's the horsie when I need him? lol)

We all have these qualities within us... masculine and feminine, both...

Well, no shit, Sherlock.

When did you discover this information? High school? Junior high? For heaven's sake, so did the rest of the world.

You need to drop the superior tone when you deal with me, sweetheart. I'm not interested in being lectured to on this topic by anyone.

And yes, I'm in a rather rotten mood this evening. But I cannot handle the patronizing tone of voice from a soul who believes that they (and only they) hold the answers for the rest of the citizens of the world. And if ONLY the rest of us would open our minds, we'd be able to grasp it for ourselves.

That's bullshit, darling. Everyone has an opinion. That doesn't make it right.

You keep yours, and I'll keep mine.


(edited to remove references to higher ed)

 

[Norajane]

well I think we should be careful about differentiating between "masculine" and "male" and "feminine" and "female."

I know a lot of women who animate a lot more masculine energy and vice versa. I don't think men are the only ones who can teach about what it is to be masculine, and I don't think women are the only ones who can teach about what it is to be feminine.

I know a great many men who have a wealth of knowledge about the feminine... and a great many women who have a wealth of knowledge about the masculine. Should we not hear them, simply because of their gender? (where's the horsie when I need him? lol)

We all have these qualities within us... masculine and feminine, both...

That's very true. The thing is, a man has no way of truly, madly, deeply understanding what it is to be a woman. And the same goes for women about men.

No matter what each knows about masculine and feminine energies, the core of the male and female experience, the essence, is impossible for the other sex to really know. In my opinion, that's why we are so fascinating to each other.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I'd argue that the most insidious of all cultural assumptions is that there is one right way to approach the art of living. Beyond whatever individual idea we think right, there lies that most ridiculous of all culturally ingrained beliefs: that we can find the one thing that always works, and that if everyone would only do what works for one person individually, they would all be equally happy in it.

Yes, some people's awareness of self is very rooted in the body. I am happy for them, and certainly would not want them to feel shamed about that. It's a wonderful thing to celebrate. But not everyone is that way, and - I think this the key point - those who aren't don't necessarily need to be taught to be, any more than those who are need be taught otherwise. Similarly, different people have different ideas about what it means to be masculine or feminine. Some see these as distinct in special ways, and prize that in themselves and in others; may they have much joy of it. Some do not, and they too find joy in themselves and in others based on that feeling. None of these ideas is vicious or wrong in itself. What is both dangerous and silly at once, and what is likely to frustrate and annoy other people, is the assumption that whichever one of these works for the speaker must work for everyone. What are the odds of finding any topic on which six billion people are likely to agree, or any one thing that will make all of them happy?

Shanglan