Plumbing Problem

[SweetErika]

Yeah, I have another home maintenance/improvement-type question. It's just that I always get such good info here!

One of our toilets has become exceedingly finicky and prone to getting clogged. The handle has to be held down for just the right amount of time when flushing, but even when it is, it often gets plugged up for what seems like no reason. We're not trying to flush too much and the other toilets of the same age work fine with the same amount.

As far as I know, the inner workings of the toilet are fine. I replaced the flapper with a sturdier one when it broke last year, and nothing looks weird (to my admittedly untrained eye).

Is it likely there's buildup somewhere in the toilet or pipe connected to it that can be solved with something like a pipe snake (or whatever is used to fix that problem...I really don't have any plumbing expertise)? Or is our best bet to go straight to replacing the whole toilet?

 

[PertPerth]

It is the toilet not working, or just not flushing away the contents?
If you're in an older suburb (like I am) you may have a tree/plan root problem. A lot of the old plumbing was done with ceramic pipes which the tree roots get into. There are options - get a plumber in to change to PVC pipes (costs $$ but the problem will be fixed 'forever'), get a plumber in to unblock the pipe (costs, but not much) or buy copper-sulphate crystals and use as directed on the packet. Basically you flush them down the toilet so they stay in the pipe over night - the plant roots hate it and it inhibits their growth.

Another thing I can think of is that it might be a partial blockage somewhere else in your house which slows down the water flow when you flush. Caustic soda is your friend! Disolve some crystals and pour them down each drain/sink you have...and reapeat in a week.

If it's the internal workings of the toilet, I suggest trying CRC spray (oil lub spray like you'd use on your car) as it might just be the parts not sliding like they used to. The older style toilets (with metal parts) are generally fixable...while the newer toilets (with plastic parts) aren't.

That's all I can think of without seeing your bathroom!

 

[SweetErika]

It is the toilet not working, or just not flushing away the contents?
If you're in an older suburb (like I am) you may have a tree/plan root problem. A lot of the old plumbing was done with ceramic pipes which the tree roots get into. There are options - get a plumber in to change to PVC pipes (costs $$ but the problem will be fixed 'forever'), get a plumber in to unblock the pipe (costs, but not much) or buy copper-sulphate crystals and use as directed on the packet. Basically you flush them down the toilet so they stay in the pipe over night - the plant roots hate it and it inhibits their growth.

Another thing I can think of is that it might be a partial blockage somewhere else in your house which slows down the water flow when you flush. Caustic soda is your friend! Disolve some crystals and pour them down each drain/sink you have...and reapeat in a week.

If it's the internal workings of the toilet, I suggest trying CRC spray (oil lub spray like you'd use on your car) as it might just be the parts not sliding like they used to. The older style toilets (with metal parts) are generally fixable...while the newer toilets (with plastic parts) aren't.

That's all I can think of without seeing your bathroom!

Well, it's just this one toilet that has an issue flushing the contents (anything more than liquid and a little paper). It seems like things are getting stuck somewhere, and there also might be a problem with how it flushes. I suppose part of the problem could be the lack of gravity, since this toilet is in the downstairs/basement, whereas the others are upstairs. But then it also seems like it's gotten worse in the 3 years we've lived here, so maybe not.

The house and toilets are from 1991. I'm sure we have PVC piping already, and I think there's only one tree that *might* have roots under the house (the rest of our big trees are all up on a hill, and we have a slab foundation, rather than a crawlspace).

 

[where]

sounds like there could be a blockage in the wastepipe away form the house. Is it a pumped system if it's in the basement? You may find that you can lift the manhole cover and blast through with a pressure hose. Also dual flush loos are terrible for getting blocked in the pipes. It's defo worth trying the caustic soda as well before getting an expensive plumber in.

I love this forum. Where else can you ask about plumbing, hard drives and how to fuck your sister all in the same place?

 

[Weird Harold]

Well, it's just this one toilet that has an issue flushing the contents (anything more than liquid and a little paper). It seems like things are getting stuck somewhere, and there also might be a problem with how it flushes. I suppose part of the problem could be the lack of gravity, since this toilet is in the downstairs/basement, whereas the others are upstairs. But then it also seems like it's gotten worse in the 3 years we've lived here, so maybe not.

The house and toilets are from 1991. I'm sure we have PVC piping already, and I think there's only one tree that *might* have roots under the house (the rest of our big trees are all up on a hill, and we have a slab foundation, rather than a crawlspace).

This would then be the lowest toilet in the house?

The upper toilets have the full llength of the internal plumbing to flush into and wouldn't encounter a partial blockage -- like roots, a collapsed pipe, or an accidentally flushed toy stuck sideways in the outside sewage pipe.

If it is just the lowest t oilet in the house hving problems -- and especially having problems after something upstairs is flushed or drained (up to as much as a half-hour after) -- the problem is most likely a partial blockage outside of the house.

One thing you can do to check the toilet's function is to color the water in the tank and watch to see if the water flows evenly from around the rim and the "starter jet" -- (the hole near the very bottom of the toilet that shoots a strong stream directly intot he bottom of the S-Trap to start the siphon effect.)

It's possible that you have a scale buildup or mold/algae blockage inside the toilet's internal water channels and replacing the toilet will fix the problem, but the symptoms sound like a partial blockage in the outflow from the house and this particular toilet only shows the symptoms because it has the least amount of space in the pipes between it and the blockage.

 

[SweetErika]

sounds like there could be a blockage in the wastepipe away form the house. Is it a pumped system if it's in the basement? You may find that you can lift the manhole cover and blast through with a pressure hose. Also dual flush loos are terrible for getting blocked in the pipes. It's defo worth trying the caustic soda as well before getting an expensive plumber in.

I love this forum. Where else can you ask about plumbing, hard drives and how to fuck your sister all in the same place?

If it was a problem away from the house, wouldn't we have problems with our other toilets as well, though?

I'll see if I can find caustic soda. A lot of harsh chemicals have been taken off the market here because people can use them to make drugs and bombs, but maybe that's not one of them.

If that doesn't work, maybe we'll try replacing the whole toilet. It's not all that difficult or expensive, and I wouldn't mind having a better one, given the amount we use this particular toilet.

 

[Weird Harold]

If it was a problem away from the house, wouldn't we have problems with our other toilets as well, though?

Nope, a partial blockage works like filling a funnel with water -- the taller the funnel, the more you can pour faster than the funnel lets out. Being in the basement this toilet is working with a very shallow "funnel" while the upstairs tolets are working with tall funnels.

 

[SweetErika]

This would then be the lowest toilet in the house?

Yep, and the only one downstairs, so we have no comparison.

It doesn't seem to be related to what we do upstairs (I spend most of my time downstairs).

The upper toilets have the full llength of the internal plumbing to flush into and wouldn't encounter a partial blockage -- like roots, a collapsed pipe, or an accidentally flushed toy stuck sideways in the outside sewage pipe.

If it is just the lowest t oilet in the house hving problems -- and especially having problems after something upstairs is flushed or drained (up to as much as a half-hour after) -- the problem is most likely a partial blockage outside of the house.

One thing you can do to check the toilet's function is to color the water in the tank and watch to see if the water flows evenly from around the rim and the "starter jet" -- (the hole near the very bottom of the toilet that shoots a strong stream directly intot he bottom of the S-Trap to start the siphon effect.)

It's possible that you have a scale buildup or mold/algae blockage inside the toilet's internal water channels and replacing the toilet will fix the problem, but the symptoms sound like a partial blockage in the outflow from the house and this particular toilet only shows the symptoms because it has the least amount of space in the pipes between it and the blockage.

I'll have to have Hubby decipher this and check when he gets home in a few weeks. I can survive with my upgraded plunger (that's the other thing...it takes an awful lot of plunging to clear the clog) until then.

It's kind of like there's not enough water pressure to flush everything. Part of it will usually go down, but then sometimes it comes back up.

There could be buildup somewhere. We have hard water that dirties the bowls in under a week.

Have you seen caustic soda or some other effective toilet-clearing stuff in the hardware stores? Is the chemical route worth a try in your opinion, or should I try a snake (does that even work for toilets?) first?

 

[Weird Harold]

There could be buildup somewhere. We have hard water that dirties the bowls in under a week.

Have you seen caustic soda or some other effective toilet-clearing stuff in the hardware stores? Is the chemical route worth a try in your opinion, or should I try a snake (does that even work for toilets?) first?

The chemical route is a definite possibility -- if you have very hard water, you might want to go with CLR -- a commercial brand of muriatic acid --as a first attempt; flush about half a bottle of CLR just before you leave the house for a couple of hours -- that will let the muriatic acid soak into any scale buildup in the pipes.

Repeat the next day with the other half bottle.

A snake is probably going to be the solution, but not the short handcranked type. You'' need to hire a plumber or to rent a powered "roto-rooter type powered snake.

I suspect the problem is within a foot of where the sewer pipe exits the building through the foundation. You'll need a snake that can reach at least that far.

 

[packersfan]

Recently, I had to adjust the position of the float pipe because the float was hitting the flapper sometimes. After I adjusted the level screw for the pipe, I started having trouble with flushing. Your toilet's internal level and drainage parts are tuned pretty precisely, to be plastic and rubber.

Has anyone bent the bar, or adjusted the float or level? I am looking at replacing the entire float assembly now. It is not that expensive, and you can find duplicate or similar assemblies at most home improvement or general hardware stores.

 

[Hoosier262]

I would question rather the flush/inlet valve is allowing enough water into the tank to force the waste down and out of the toilet. Is the water level in the tank up to the line inside the tank?? If it is not it will not carry the waste out of the tolilet.

The water level can be adjusted on the flush/inlet valve. Most have a screw or some other way of allowing more water into the tank. just becareful that yu do not allow in so much that it runs out the overflow tube.

 

[SweetErika]

I would question rather the flush/inlet valve is allowing enough water into the tank to force the waste down and out of the toilet. Is the water level in the tank up to the line inside the tank?? If it is not it will not carry the waste out of the tolilet.

The water level can be adjusted on the flush/inlet valve. Most have a screw or some other way of allowing more water into the tank. just becareful that yu do not allow in so much that it runs out the overflow tube.

Good question. I'll check that, since I may have screwed something up when I replaced the flapper months ago. I think I bought one of those flapper assemblies that allow the water level to be adjusted.

 

[SweetErika]

The water in the tank stops short of the line by about 3/4". I think that's probably low enough to cause partial-flush problems, given the toilet's in the basement. I tried adjusting the screws on the float thingy and made sure the floaty piece on my newish flapper wasn't causing the problem, but neither of these things affected the waterline.

I'll be posting some crappy pics of the inner workings as soon as I charge my camera batteries (hopefully that's why the camera just stopped working!), and maybe you guys can spot the problem or tell me where the float level adjustment screw is on those.

 

[webber1998]

Slow toilet

Two things that I have had trouble with in the past and pretty easy fixes.

Scale can build up in the toilet and in the water passages within the toilet fixture. It is pretty easy to clean the scale on the bowl itself, but I used the muriatic acid to clean the inside passageways. Be sure to read all instructions carefully and take proper precautions, such as wearing goggles and protective gloves. Turn of the water supply and empty the tank of water by flushing it. Pour a little acid in the overflow. A couple ounces should do it and then pour a few more ounces in the bowl. Let it sit over night. See if that takes care of the problem. Cost is about $5. Really, if you haven't used muriatic acid before, I would probably pass on this one. But it REALLY does work great.

The inlet holes under the lip of the bowl help to build the swirl in the toilet for easier flushing. These holes commonly become clogged by the buildup of mineral deposits over time. Fixing this problem is as simple as cleaning out the holes. Often, prodding them with something hard or sharp will do the trick. One of my toilets had not been flushing right after I moved in. This cleared the problem completely.

 

[gvalschief]

To determine if the problem is the water in the tank...pour a bucket ful of water into the bowl quickly. If the toilet flushes properly the problem is the water in the tank not getting into the bowl quickly enough. If the bowl fills up with water then drains slowly the problem is in the bowl or the drain pipe. If plunging the toilet improves the situation temporarily the there is something stuck in the reverse trap. Toothbrush, hairbrush, cell phone pager, vibrator which accumulates paper or other debris causing recurrance of the sluggish behavior. Closet auger is most likely tool to use.

 

[NippleMuncher]

All good advice thus far, though before resorting to chemical digesters in an attempt to correct the situation, it will be far faster and easier to do three things.

1. Auger the toilet. If something is stuck in the goose neck, this might get it to break loose and come out. I've had instances where a toilet auger doesn't work. Ok, I've never been able to get an auger to clear a toothbrush or other mechanical obstruction. All an auger is good for is breaking through bio-waste and paper.
2. Check the vent stack for blockages. When using other drains or toilets in the house, does the water level in the bowl drop in this toilet? If so, it could be a blocked vent stack. Birds, rodents, and other things can find their way down a stack, even corrosion build-up. This will require going on the roof with a flashlight and possibly the garden hose. The only reason that I place this above the next item is because it's a non-invasive means to cure the situation.
3. Pull the toilet and flip it upside down and reverse flush it with a hose in the yard. I've found this the best means to clear obstructions in a toilet, and for me it's faster than buying/renting a toilet auger. If you go this route, you'll need a new set of hold down bolts and a new wax ring. Pulling a toilet isn't difficult, it's just a little heavy/awkward to lift and move around. If you decide to pull the toilet, I can walk you through the easiest method I know of for pulling and resetting.

 

[SweetErika]

All good advice thus far, though before resorting to chemical digesters in an attempt to correct the situation, it will be far faster and easier to do three things.

1. Auger the toilet. If something is stuck in the goose neck, this might get it to break loose and come out. I've had instances where a toilet auger doesn't work. Ok, I've never been able to get an auger to clear a toothbrush or other mechanical obstruction. All an auger is good for is breaking through bio-waste and paper.
2. Check the vent stack for blockages. When using other drains or toilets in the house, does the water level in the bowl drop in this toilet? If so, it could be a blocked vent stack. Birds, rodents, and other things can find their way down a stack, even corrosion build-up. This will require going on the roof with a flashlight and possibly the garden hose. The only reason that I place this above the next item is because it's a non-invasive means to cure the situation.
3. Pull the toilet and flip it upside down and reverse flush it with a hose in the yard. I've found this the best means to clear obstructions in a toilet, and for me it's faster than buying/renting a toilet auger. If you go this route, you'll need a new set of hold down bolts and a new wax ring. Pulling a toilet isn't difficult, it's just a little heavy/awkward to lift and move around. If you decide to pull the toilet, I can walk you through the easiest method I know of for pulling and resetting.

I did scrub the filling holes under the rim today. I don't think they were clogged, but they're way under there and I'm not sure when that part was scrubbed really well last.

It flushed successfully last time there was anything significant in there (after I screwed with the flapper float and loosened the screws on the float arm), so I'm going to wait to do anything else until I see how it behaves with more than liquid next time.

I *know* there's no mechanical obstruction, like a toothbrush, because it didn't have this problem when we moved in and we haven't dropped anything in there. So, that leaves paper, biowaste, mineral/algae, and tampons. Maybe I'll try the chemicals first, then the auger (might be good to have an inexpensive one on hand, anyway) if it's still problematic. Beyond that, I wouldn't mind getting a whole new toilet that's more comfortable and looks better, unless the newer ones try to save so much water that they don't flush.

I'll post the pic of the inside first, when I get a chance though, since I have a feeling having the water up to the line would help matters and be a quick fix.

Who knew our toilets vented on the roof? That's so bizarre!

And I actually have replaced a toilet before, though it's been about a decade. My mom and I did it together out of necessity, and I think we went through about 5 wax rings before we got it seated correctly. Yes, FIVE! Those rings are tricky fuckers!

If this one gets removed or replaced, it likely won't be until fall, since we'll be gone most of the summer. Fortunately, it'll be pretty easy to get out of the house (we can basically put it on a tarp or something and slide it right out), and Hubby is far stronger and not as plumbing-challenged as I am.

 

[Weird Harold]

I did scrub the filling holes under the rim today. I don't think they were clogged, but they're way under there and I'm not sure when that part was scrubbed really well last.

A few drops of (red) food coloring in the tank will show you whether the holes under the rim are clogged -- use enough food coloring to get a good contrast but not enough to stain the toilet permanently and watch to see if there are gaps in the pretty red spiral when you flush.

 

[sircumvent]

Two things that I have had trouble with in the past and pretty easy fixes.

Scale can build up in the toilet and in the water passages within the toilet fixture. It is pretty easy to clean the scale on the bowl itself, but I used the muriatic acid to clean the inside passageways. Be sure to read all instructions carefully and take proper precautions, such as wearing goggles and protective gloves. Turn of the water supply and empty the tank of water by flushing it. Pour a little acid in the overflow. A couple ounces should do it and then pour a few more ounces in the bowl. Let it sit over night. See if that takes care of the problem. Cost is about $5. Really, if you haven't used muriatic acid before, I would probably pass on this one. But it REALLY does work great.

The inlet holes under the lip of the bowl help to build the swirl in the toilet for easier flushing. These holes commonly become clogged by the buildup of mineral deposits over time. Fixing this problem is as simple as cleaning out the holes. Often, prodding them with something hard or sharp will do the trick. One of my toilets had not been flushing right after I moved in. This cleared the problem completely.

Sometimes it is the simple things. About a month ago our toilet was backing up and I was in there plunging and plunging. It would work for a couple of flushes and then it would back up again. We finally called a plumber and he told us the solid toilet bowl disinfectant things my S/O put in the tank was stopping up the water passages in the toilet bowl and that was causing the back up. She took those little blue things out and life is good.
This was a simple solution, but if SweetErika is not using these tablets I suggest getting your lines cleaned out.

 

[gvalschief]

Did you get this problem fixed? Been putting my hands in other peoples toilets for near 30 years be happy to offer further guidance

 

[SweetErika]

Did you get this problem fixed? Been putting my hands in other peoples toilets for near 30 years be happy to offer further guidance

Honestly, I'm not sure! It seems like it's been doing better since I tried to raise the water level in the tank, but I'm not sure if my adjustment attempts did anything, and maybe I've just had good luck. I guess I'll have to keep an eye on it and let you know.

I DID learn that we've been using the wrong type of plunger for years, though! A couple of months ago I couldn't get the clog to clear, and I yelled at Hubby to go buy a better plunger (we had the cheap, small, flat type). He was able to clear it, so he didn't get a new one, but I bought a much sturdier one with a sleeve (the proper type; the flat one is for flat drains, like sinks and tubs!). Then, when I was reading about augers, I learned about the differences and confirmed I was right about wanting a better one with a sleeve all along. I've only used it a couple of times, but maybe that had something to do with the toilet's current better behavior; I suppose it could have broken up a clog that the flat plunger was unable to clear.

 

[gvalschief]

Good Luck, if I can be of any help just ask

 

[In Anticipation]

All good advice thus far, though before resorting to chemical digesters in an attempt to correct the situation, it will be far faster and easier to do three things.

1. Auger the toilet. If something is stuck in the goose neck, this might get it to break loose and come out. I've had instances where a toilet auger doesn't work. Ok, I've never been able to get an auger to clear a toothbrush or other mechanical obstruction. All an auger is good for is breaking through bio-waste and paper.
2. Check the vent stack for blockages. When using other drains or toilets in the house, does the water level in the bowl drop in this toilet? If so, it could be a blocked vent stack. Birds, rodents, and other things can find their way down a stack, even corrosion build-up. This will require going on the roof with a flashlight and possibly the garden hose. The only reason that I place this above the next item is because it's a non-invasive means to cure the situation.
3. Pull the toilet and flip it upside down and reverse flush it with a hose in the yard. I've found this the best means to clear obstructions in a toilet, and for me it's faster than buying/renting a toilet auger. If you go this route, you'll need a new set of hold down bolts and a new wax ring. Pulling a toilet isn't difficult, it's just a little heavy/awkward to lift and move around. If you decide to pull the toilet, I can walk you through the easiest method I know of for pulling and resetting.

This is good advice.

I've come late to this thread but if the flushing performance is OK then it's likely a blockage in the drain. The reason you wouldn't notice in the toilets higher up is either that it is in the bit before they all join together or because the pipe from the higher ones is longer and the water can back up in it, also the pipe from a higher one is probably vertical for a while so will 'fill' more easily.

You can try chemical unblockers, if that doesn't work then you will need to get someone to rod it out, i.e put something physical through to the first manhole. Have you lifted the manhole and got someone to flush while you watch? You can compare the flushes from the different toilets and work out if there is a blockage that way. The upstairs ones will come through faster though after a drop.

I'm not sure if I'd advise flushing tampons. A tampon and a wad of paper can form a block, if the 'fall' (angle of drop) of the drain is not adequate, as you get sediment in the bottom of the pipe.

I've cleared blockages by backwashing with an ordinary garden hose, it isn't very pleasant to do though!

If you shop around you ought to be able to get someone in without spending a fortune, given that they can do it at a time to suit them, rather than as an emergency. I'd get it fixed before it becomes an emergency.

 

[SweetErika]

Still no clogging problems! I would have thought it would have happened again at least a couple of times by now, but nope.

Either something I did (fiddling with the float arm & flapper float or using the proper plunger or scrubbing the holes in the bowl [least likely]) worked, or the Porcelain Gods have been smiling down on me!

Now I have a ton of great advice in case the curse comes back or any of the three have issues in the future. See? Plumbing and porn really can go hand in hand!

Thanks so much to everyone who took the time to share their knowledge. I really did learn a lot! Bit by bit, I'm becoming a better homeowner, and many of you have played a big role in that.

 

[In Anticipation]

Still no clogging problems! I would have thought it would have happened again at least a couple of times by now, but nope.

Either something I did (fiddling with the float arm & flapper float or using the proper plunger or scrubbing the holes in the bowl [least likely]) worked, or the Porcelain Gods have been smiling down on me!

Now I have a ton of great advice in case the curse comes back or any of the three have issues in the future. See? Plumbing and porn really can go hand in hand!

Thanks so much to everyone who took the time to share their knowledge. I really did learn a lot! Bit by bit, I'm becoming a better homeowner, and many of you have played a big role in that.

I imagine that there was a minor blockage and it either cleared of its own volition or your efforts with the plunger were sucessful. Improving the flush won't have done any harm either.

I guess a blockage isn't sentient so 'volition' was a bad word choice, but you'll understand what I mean.