Plotters v Pantsers: pick a side!

[M_K_Babalon]

For those who think that plotting takes the surprise and fun out of writing, I would just analogize it to painting. When Leonardo painted the Last Supper, he didn't just put brush to canvas and ask, "I wonder who's going to show up in this painting?" He knew. But there was still a huge artistic challenge before him. It's the same for a plotter. I like knowing the overall purpose and shape of my story, and outlining and crafting it before I start. But there are still many surprises once I start writing. I write with an end in mind, and figuring out just how I want to get there is part of the fun and the challenge. Plotting means knowing where you want to go but not necessarily how you're going to get there.

Yeah, this. Panster will say I just write what comes to mind. That's how plotting works, too. I don't always know how a story is gonna end, until I get to it. I don't know how other plotters plot, but me; I have an idea, I think about it, from there I have scenes, and pieces of dialog, cliff notes. Then when I actually write, I expand, detail, or fill in blank spots. That's why I say plotting is pantsing. The process is esentially the same, just with an extra step.

I'm not sure how great an example this is, but it was the easiest layout to find in my phone for the story Subway Ride

 

[KittyOfSteele]

Hey! Who you calling an IT girl ?

Your avatar, obviously! I'm always fond of that pun though; it makes me smile to think about an IT who actually works at IT. That was kinda my first story here, so I'm fond of that vibe.

I actually sat on my pants for that, and didn't like the result. I'm plantsing a rewrite now.

 

[old_prof]

Plant-based porn? Like triffids?

I do have a plot bunny chattering something about a plant-based story for non-human (Think the fisherman's wife with vines instead of tentacles)

Or maybe they just want more greens to eat. I'm not sure which.

 

[StillStunned]

A plotter walks into a bar. The barman says, "Finally! You've been standing outside for ages!"

 

[EmilyMiller]

Your avatar, obviously! I'm always fond of that pun though; it makes me smile to think about an IT who actually works at IT.

I seem to be caught in IT’s gravity well to be fair. Now Business Product Owner for the system my dept uses AND a more general data repository. I should buy a pocket protector, right ?

 

[JuanSeiszFitzHall]

A bratty cat girl dominated by a flower girl and an IT girl. Hey, @anthrodisiac , I found a sapphic story for you!

Clara Bow? That's before even my time.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

Clara Bow? That's before even my time.

Same. I'm more into the film noir era.

 

[SimonDoom]

I couldn't write an outline if you paid me. Because I don't know to do one. But I'm learning.

1. It's not that difficult.
2. You can set it up in Word so it's automatic.
3. Just keep telling yourself that if there isn't a bullet number in front of it, it doesn't count.
4. Go back to 1.

 

[txblush]

@SimonDoom I'm still trying to figure out how to quote yours and the other writers' posts!

But to answer yours.... Easy for you to say, sir. My apologies, I couldn't stop laughing, after reading it. Edited to include these.

 

[Carnevil9]

No insults from me. I respect and admire anyone who can write a cohesive, interesting, and logically consistent story without planning it out in advance. To me, that sounds like trying to build a house without so much as a floor plan to start with.

I can't even begin to do that, so I always plan my plot arcs in broad strokes before I start writing. Usually around six or seven bullet items of key scenes that have to occur and in what order. So, yeah, I'm a plotter. But we all have to do what we have to do.

PS - this thread should have a poll.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Eh... I don't like choices. Except 'either vs and'.

Either I start with some characters and a vague scenario,.and just write - pantsing it. Or I have an idea for a story, figure out the key scenes and then write them and the joining up bits - plotting.

I suppose it's more common that I write something and then realise I need to write down the key paragraphs or scenes and note those down, than writing that list first.

 

[anthrodisiac]

As someone with an ND brain, the idea of simply letting the story evolve and seeing where it ends up is frankly terrifying. For me, much more fun to have a structured (but still malleable) approach.

As someone with an ND brain, the sheer joy of pantsing is that it evolves and turns into something unexpected. Structure's great, sure, but there's something so damn intoxicating about the unexpected meanders of a river rather than the straight line of a plotter.

 

[AStrangeDesire]

OK, finally caught up on this thread (and managed not to get 'spritzed' which is good? Or is it bad? I don't know)

My question is, do people evolve into plotters? Like for you plotters, did you start as pantsers and then realize there is a something you were missing?

Or is it more of a personality thing?

 

[anthrodisiac]

OK, finally caught up on this thread (and managed not to get 'spritzed' which is good? Or is it bad? I don't know)

My question is, do people evolve into plotters? Like for you plotters, did you start as pantsers and then realize there is a something you were missing?

Or is it more of a personality thing?

*spritzes you*

I started out life as a plotter, but my plotlines sucked and disintegrated like so much wet toilet paper five minutes in.* So I went pants and haven't looked back. It's been 15 years since I tried to seriously plot anything beyond, "Okay, start here, these people, end up... probably there? Seems legit. Do it!"

*Probably from all the spritzing, now that I think about it...

 

[old_prof]

I assumed I would be a plotter, because I usually plan things out carefully. My first story I had a pretty good idea what was happening when; not hard core plotter, but pretty much. Then it turned into a series unexpectedly. 200K+ words into completely pantsing it, I realized I needed to plan out an ending . I was pantsing it sufficiently that I had no idea a major plot point was going to happen until the line I typed where it did. And it's not like I paused. It just emerged on teh screen, much to my shock,

Nowadays, I'm somewhat of a hybrid. For my novels, I tend to know what is going to happen in the next 10K or so, always defining a sliding window in front of me. But it is easily broken and reformed. I did have to plan my New Years's Eve party story more cerefully, because in interleaved five conversations involving fourteen characters, followed by an orgy with four different groups of 2-4 people (totally 12 people), all interleaved and watching each other. That needed some choreography,.

 

[EmilyMiller]

As someone with an ND brain, the sheer joy of pantsing is that it evolves and turns into something unexpected. Structure's great, sure, but there's something so damn intoxicating about the unexpected meanders of a river rather than the straight line of a plotter.

There are different types of ND within the multidimensional word-salad of ‘conditions.’

I prize control and a degree of predictability. Others crave chaos and freedom. Neither is wrong or right.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

OK, finally caught up on this thread (and managed not to get 'spritzed' which is good? Or is it bad? I don't know)

My question is, do people evolve into plotters? Like for you plotters, did you start as pantsers and then realize there is a something you were missing?

Or is it more of a personality thing?

I evolved into plantsing due to perfectionism. Plotting is an unavoidable pitfall for me in which I end up doing everything possible in the story, except the most important thing: writing the fucking story. It gave me a terrible case of worldbuilder's disease that lasted for years, and it was all for nothing because I ended up losing all that material during the Great Ransomware Purge of 2014, when my computer somehow got hit by a ransomware pretending to be an antivirus and asking me for a credit card. Whatever. ADHD that was undiagnosed back then got me into that.

Pantsing I've done with better ease, but I always end up planning stuff up at some point, so it's not like I'm on a driverless car anymore; my hands are on the wheels instead.

So I do plantsing. Either I outline just enough to start, or start right away but cook on vibes and correct course. I prefer to call it the Dungeon Master method: I don't outline stories, I create problems as puzzles, and it is up to my characters to do their asspulls to solve them.

 

[Britva415]

do people evolve into plotters?

I'm sure some do.

I'm sure some don't.

I'm sure some plotters evolve into pantsers.

Everyone's different.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I actually do both.

Updated.

 

[AStrangeDesire]

I'm sure some do.

I'm sure some don't.

I'm sure some plotters evolve into pantsers.

Everyone's different.

Fair.

I was more asking about general experiences.

Context: I'm finding myself plotting more. But I'm still drifting from the plot I'd laid out. Not saying that's bad either. More... curious

 

[anthrodisiac]

I prize control and a degree of predictability. Others crave chaos and freedom. Neither is wrong or right.

It's funny how much of a pantser I am. I deeply crave control and predictability in my life. Unpredictability unsettles me in a lot of cases. But for writing, I'm happy to give that up, because to me it's almost like reading a book — I have a general idea where it's heading, but the journey is unknown, the details are new and interesting, and the beauty is in watching it unfold in real time.

Maybe that craving for control is what strangles all my plotting. I have too much rigidity in my thinking at a high level, I impose my will upon something that needs breathing room to unfurl on its own, to be able to take the directions it needs to take in order to be told properly. The control shifts, and the high-level plotter takes a backseat to the pantser, who is the one who lives in the world, who greets the people in it, who rolls around in the mud, while the plotter sips tea and directs the action from afar, all the players faceless names with little meaning or emotional connection. That's how my plotter seemed to work, and I guess I need that connection to the characters and events in order to truly bring a story to life.

Obviously, other people aren't me, this is strictly a psychoanalysis of my own being, and not a blanket statement about plotters or pantsers. How other people (neurospicy or otherwise) approach writing is somewhat to entirely different, which is fantastic, because it'd be boring as hell otherwise.

 

[EmilyMiller]

It's funny how much of a pantser I am. I deeply crave control and predictability in my life. Unpredictability unsettles me in a lot of cases. But for writing, I'm happy to give that up, because to me it's almost like reading a book — I have a general idea where it's heading, but the journey is unknown, the details are new and interesting, and the beauty is in watching it unfold in real time.

Maybe that craving for control is what strangles all my plotting. I have too much rigidity in my thinking at a high level, I impose my will upon something that needs breathing room to unfurl on its own, to be able to take the directions it needs to take in order to be told properly. The control shifts, and the high-level plotter takes a backseat to the pantser, who is the one who lives in the world, who greets the people in it, who rolls around in the mud, while the plotter sips tea and directs the action from afar, all the players faceless names with little meaning or emotional connection. That's how my plotter seemed to work, and I guess I need that connection to the characters and events in order to truly bring a story to life.

Obviously, other people aren't me, this is strictly a psychoanalysis of my own being, and not a blanket statement about plotters or pantsers. How other people (neurospicy or otherwise) approach writing is somewhat to entirely different, which is fantastic, because it'd be boring as hell otherwise.

Once again, it’s all your brain doing the evolving. Unless you are possessed by a demon meerkat tribe.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Once again, it’s all your brain doing the evolving. Unless you are possessed by a demon meerkat tribe.

Once again, it is the demon meerkat tribe. The archaeopteryx can't be arsed to stop them anymore.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Once again, it is the demon meerkat tribe. The archaeopteryx can't be arsed to stop them anymore.

I know it’s tempting to say that our fingers at controlled by some unseen power. It’s called your cerebrum. I know it’s tempting to say our characters have a life of their own. It’s called your inventiveness. Writing is a brain-centric activity (like most everything else human).

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Let's put it this way: in a current WIP, a story about a retail Karen getting seduced and very much attitude-fixed by resentful but sexy clerks (and enjoying it) became the story of a clerk with autism in desperate lust for the customer who isn't a Karen after all, and her friends (who are not, not according to my original plan, characters who have appeared in other stories) shipping the couple and meddling.