Plot vs. Storyline

[starscape]

What is the difference between plot and storyline? I've been trying to Google it but I keep getting conflicting answers. They include:

1. Storyline is the same as plot.

2. Plot is the backbone of the story and storyline has the details that get you there. The plot contains the primary sequence of events. Here's a probably bad example based on my understanding of what that means:

Billy is a nerd and has a crush on the popular girl he's been tutoring in math. His goal is to win her over and take her to the prom. Her boyfriend, the jerky football captain who, unbeknownst to them, is two-timing on her, as well as his own insecurities stand in his way. The primary steps he has to take to get to that goal, including the obstacles he faces, is the plot. So it might include him finding out the boyfriend is a cheater and he must use his superior intellect to expose him, he builds his confidence by his philosophical discussions with a elderly, recently-widowed astronomer he befriends. Meanwhile the popular girl sees his kindness and realizes she wants to be with someone who treats her with respect.

The storyline would be the details like what he actually does to expose the boyfriend, the actual conversations with the astronomer and how they influence him to take a chance, the ways the popular girl grows to see him in a different light, etc. So it's things that happen to further the plot but it's also character development and, presumably, other things I can't think of because I'm confused.

3. Plot is the entire series of events, the actual story itself. Storyline is the overarching theme of what it's about. So everything in point #2 would be the plot and the storyline might be "What goes around comes around" or "A person's character is more important than who they are on the outside."

4. Some other weird, confusing combination of the above.

I'm truly flummoxed and even with #2 and #3 I don't even know if I interpreted the explanation correctly. And if it's #2 I'm still not clear on the difference between "major steps" and "details".

Can someone please explain the difference in plain English? Help!

P.S. I know the example is lame, but I'm working on seven hours of sleep over three days so cliches were the best I could do.

 

[jomar]

The plot is more general and the storyline is the specifics of how the plot plays out. Like there are a gazillion stories with the same plot but they differ in the particular storyline. Think buddy movies and everything since Shakespeare.

 

[starscape]

Hi jomar.

I really think my brain is not functioning properly right now because I'm still confused.

I'll use The Lord of the Rings for an example to see if I'm understanding what you're saying. Is the plot:

Frodo goes on a quest to destroy the One Ring before its evil destroys the world?

An individual goes on a quest to defeat evil?

Something else?

I guess I'm thinking if a plot is only something general, then what's a plot twist?

If I'm totally off base here, could you please provide an example?

 

[sr71plt]

I see no difference and none has ever been made in discussion I've had in mainstream publishing.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

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[3113]

I agree that for the most part the two are synonomous. However, to explain Jomar's example:

Plot: Man falsely accused of killing his wife must avoid capture by finding the real killer.

Now you probably immediately thought I was describing The Fugitive. But that's also the "plot" for the Hitchcock movie Frenzy. The two have the same general plot, but different storylines. In The Fugitive, the storyline would be: Doctor comes home to find his wife dead and the evidence points to him. As he's being taken to jail...

In Frenzy, the storyline would go: There is a serial killer in London and everyone is wondering who it might be. After visiting his wife to borrow money, a man is accused of being the killer when she is found strangled in her office...

Two different storylines, same plot. Lord of the Rings plot would simply be: A great evil is trying to take over the land and the forces of good must stop it by destroying it's ultimate weapon. The storyline would tell us that this plot involves a magic ring and a hobbit picked to destroy it by taking it to Mount Doom.

Get it?

 

[JackLuis]

That was lovely James. Very good example and I found it most illuminating.

It helps me on a story in progress.

 

[Boxlicker101]

All stories have a story line, even mine. It might be something like: She comes over to see me; I eat her pussy and we fuck. However, there is no plot to speak of, since tyhere is no conflict to be resolved.

 

[Verdad]

The way I've read it, story is the overall story, in chronological order, and plot is the concrete sequence of events in which it's revealed.

On the example of Lord of the Rings, it could be said the story begins when the ring is forged, or even earlier, and follows its fate to its destruction. That's not the way the story is told, though—the plot begins with everyday life in Shire and fills us in on the relevant events in a specific dramatic order.

Since the movie handles it a bit differently than the book, it could be said the plot of the movie differs although the story is the same.

 

[Verdad]

Or, in other words, from Janet Burroway, Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft:

"Humphry House, in his commentaries on Aristotle, defines story as everything the reader needs to know to make coherent sense of the plot, and plot as the particular portion of the story the author chooses to present—the "present tense" of the narrative. The story of Oedipus Rex, for example, begins before Oedipus' birth, with the oracle predicting that he will murder his father and marry his mother. It includes his birth, his abandonment with hobbled ankles, his childhood with his foster parents, his flight from them, his murder of the stranger at the crossroads, his triumph over the Sphinx, his marriage to Jocasta and his reign in Thebes, his fatherhood, the Theban plague, his discovery of the truth, and his self-blinding and self-banishment. When Sophocles set out to plot out a play on this story, he began at dawn of the very last day of it. All the information about Oedipus' life is necessary to understand the plot, but the plot begins with the conflict: How can Oedipus get rid of the plague in Thebes? Because the plot is so arranged, it is the revelation of the past that makes up the action of the play, a process of discovery that gives rise to the significant theme: Who am I? Had Sophocles begun with the oracle before Oedipus' birth, no such significance and no such theme would have been explored."

 

[jomar]

I agree that for the most part the two are synonomous. However, to explain Jomar's example:

Plot: Man falsely accused of killing his wife must avoid capture by finding the real killer.

Now you probably immediately thought I was describing The Fugitive. But that's also the "plot" for the Hitchcock movie Frenzy. The two have the same general plot, but different storylines. In The Fugitive, the storyline would be: Doctor comes home to find his wife dead and the evidence points to him. As he's being taken to jail...

In Frenzy, the storyline would go: There is a serial killer in London and everyone is wondering who it might be. After visiting his wife to borrow money, a man is accused of being the killer when she is found strangled in her office...

Two different storylines, same plot. Lord of the Rings plot would simply be: A great evil is trying to take over the land and the forces of good must stop it by destroying it's ultimate weapon. The storyline would tell us that this plot involves a magic ring and a hobbit picked to destroy it by taking it to Mount Doom.

Get it?

Nice elaboration! And I agree as well that they are probably mostly seen as the same thing - even dictionary.com has them as synonymous.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

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[Verdad]

In yet other words, in the language of narratology:

"Fabula refers to the chronological sequence of events in a narrative; sjuzhet is the re-presentation of those events (through narration, metaphor, camera angles, the re-ordering of the temporal sequence, and so on). The distinction is equivalent to that between story and discourse, and was used by the Russian Formalists, an influential group of structuralists."

'Sujet' is equivalent to plot—it's what's actually written/filmed, the actual words on the paper or images on the screen.

Fabula is equivalent to story, and it's that which emerges from sujet/plot.

 

[Weird Harold]

I guess I'm thinking if a plot is only something general, then what's a plot twist?

Like most of the other answers, I think they're generally the same thing, except where a distinction between the general plot and the precise storyline. Unfortunately, the distinction, when made, seems to be context sensitive where sometimes "Plot Elements" are subservient to the "Storyline" and other times, the Storyline has to support the Plot. I don't think there is a standardized hierarchy of distinction.

A Plot Twist is when a Plot/storyline starts out as a generic or formulaic plot tolead the reader to expect a generic or formulaic flow to the story but then twists plot elements around to take the story in a different direction than the expectation raised by the initial setup.

For example, a story here at Lit might start out in a first person perspective that looks like a standard boy-meets-girl romance and go several pages or chapters before revealing the first person Narrator as a girl and twisting the story into a girl-meets-girl romance.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Like most of the other answers, I think they're generally the same thing, except where a distinction between the general plot and the precise storyline. Unfortunately, the distinction, when made, seems to be context sensitive where sometimes "Plot Elements" are subservient to the "Storyline" and other times, the Storyline has to support the Plot. I don't think there is a standardized hierarchy of distinction.

A Plot Twist is when a Plot/storyline starts out as a generic or formulaic plot tolead the reader to expect a generic or formulaic flow to the story but then twists plot elements around to take the story in a different direction than the expectation raised by the initial setup.

For example, a story here at Lit might start out in a first person perspective that looks like a standard boy-meets-girl romance and go several pages or chapters before revealing the first person Narrator as a girl and twisting the story into a girl-meets-girl romance.

On this site, that wouldn't be much of a plot twist, since there are so many girl meets girl stories here. A better example might have been the better known works of O. Henry, many of which feature a surprise ending.

 

[starscape]

Sorry I posted and ran. I was starting to hallucinate () from lack of sleep and couldn't process. I read once that can happen. I've had a few trippy experiences over the years, so I remember thinking at the time, "That might be kind of fun, actually." ...Yeah, no so much. I was far too confused and (literally) tripping all over myself for it to be fun. Damn insomnia...

Thankfully I finally fell asleep and am feeling much better now. Now:

STARSCAPE

Think of the plot as the schedule of critical events within the story...

Disturbance: At the end of their 90 day enlistments, and during a campaign, militiamen petition their general for discharge from active service.

1st Point of No Return: The general arrests and executes the militia ringleader.

2nd Point of No Return: The brother of the ringleader confronts & humiliates the general into accepting a duel.

Crisis: The brother and general duel

Resolution: The general shoots the brother, but uses all his shots to do it. Wounded but alive, the brother crawls toward the general with 4 loaded pistols, kills him with one bullet, and collapses.

With the plot you can make an outline of the story. Then use your story-craft for characterization, description, dialogue, etc. Maybe add sub-plots like...the brother's sweetheart is the general's daughter, and the general once saved the life of the brother. You get the idea. Fill it angst and complications.

The plot aims your story in the right direction and eliminates many of the problems writers create with dull middles, loose associations, and tangential points.

Thank you! That was a very clear example and makes a lot of sense. I appreciate that you added subplot to the explanation as well. That was another thing I was curious about.

I agree that for the most part the two are synonomous. However, to explain Jomar's example:

Plot: Man falsely accused of killing his wife must avoid capture by finding the real killer.

Now you probably immediately thought I was describing The Fugitive. But that's also the "plot" for the Hitchcock movie Frenzy. The two have the same general plot, but different storylines. In The Fugitive, the storyline would be: Doctor comes home to find his wife dead and the evidence points to him. As he's being taken to jail...

In Frenzy, the storyline would go: There is a serial killer in London and everyone is wondering who it might be. After visiting his wife to borrow money, a man is accused of being the killer when she is found strangled in her office...

Two different storylines, same plot. Lord of the Rings plot would simply be: A great evil is trying to take over the land and the forces of good must stop it by destroying it's ultimate weapon. The storyline would tell us that this plot involves a magic ring and a hobbit picked to destroy it by taking it to Mount Doom.

Get it?

Indeed I do. I appreciate the comparison of Frenzy and The Fugitive as well as the clarification on Lord of the Rings. One of ways I learn best is through seeing examples, so I appreciate that you approached it from two different angles.

All stories have a story line, even mine. It might be something like: She comes over to see me; I eat her pussy and we fuck. However, there is no plot to speak of, since tyhere is no conflict to be resolved.

That was so cheeky, and yet a perfect example of the difference between storyline and plot!

The way I've read it, story is the overall story, in chronological order, and plot is the concrete sequence of events in which it's revealed.

On the example of Lord of the Rings, it could be said the story begins when the ring is forged, or even earlier, and follows its fate to its destruction. That's not the way the story is told, though—the plot begins with everyday life in Shire and fills us in on the relevant events in a specific dramatic order.

Since the movie handles it a bit differently than the book, it could be said the plot of the movie differs although the story is the same.

Or, in other words, from Janet Burroway, Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft:

"Humphry House, in his commentaries on Aristotle, defines story as everything the reader needs to know to make coherent sense of the plot, and plot as the particular portion of the story the author chooses to present—the "present tense" of the narrative. The story of Oedipus Rex, for example, begins before Oedipus' birth, with the oracle predicting that he will murder his father and marry his mother. It includes his birth, his abandonment with hobbled ankles, his childhood with his foster parents, his flight from them, his murder of the stranger at the crossroads, his triumph over the Sphinx, his marriage to Jocasta and his reign in Thebes, his fatherhood, the Theban plague, his discovery of the truth, and his self-blinding and self-banishment. When Sophocles set out to plot out a play on this story, he began at dawn of the very last day of it. All the information about Oedipus' life is necessary to understand the plot, but the plot begins with the conflict: How can Oedipus get rid of the plague in Thebes? Because the plot is so arranged, it is the revelation of the past that makes up the action of the play, a process of discovery that gives rise to the significant theme: Who am I? Had Sophocles begun with the oracle before Oedipus' birth, no such significance and no such theme would have been explored."

Hmm, a different twist. I like it though. I wonder if this factors into why plot and storyline might be viewed as interchangeable? A lot of stories travel in a chronological fashion, so according to this, if I'm understanding it correctly, the storyline and the plot could indeed be the same depending on how the story itself is structured.

***

I can see from the responses there is a lot room for interpretation. No wonder I couldn't find any definitive answers!

What prompted my question was getting some feedback where the reader said, "This was a great story with an excellent plot and a generally well thought out storyline." I interpreted that as there were a few things in the storyline he thought could have been better. I asked for clarification but didn't get a response, so I looked the two up to see if I could get an idea of how storyline differs from plot, and thereby a possible hint into what the reader might have been referring to. Mostly I want to learn from my mistakes and getting constructive criticism from readers is pretty rare for me.

If he meant storyline/plot similar to the way JBJ described, he might have been saying the premise/overall framework of the story was excellent. The execution of that framework had a couple of shaky moments.

Based on what (little) he said, that's the closest interpretation I can get to what he might have been getting at. I'm not sure in this particular case if he could have been looking at it through the other lenses?

 

[Weird Harold]

On this site, that wouldn't be much of a plot twist, since there are so many girl meets girl stories here. A better example might have been the better known works of O. Henry, many of which feature a surprise ending.

IIRC, O Henry didn't write porn, so using him as an example isn't as relevant as using Lit stories.

How much of a plot twist any particular "suprise" might be depends a great deal on how well the author sets up/conceals the "surprise" before revealing it. If the author foreshadows the twist or does a poor job of setting it up, it isn't really a 'twist', just as poorly told joke doesn't support the punchline -- or a dumb punchline can ruin a well told joke.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I was going to comment on this last night.

I started off by thinking of a bare-bones "boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl."

Then I started to write out a more detailed specific; "postman meets a reclusive girl on his route..."

And I ended up writing out a rather promising horror story premise, instead of answering your thread!

 

[sr71plt]

On this site, that wouldn't be much of a plot twist, since there are so many girl meets girl stories here. A better example might have been the better known works of O. Henry, many of which feature a surprise ending.

Oh, a lot of my Lit. stories take twists straight from O'Henry. (Look at my first "Seconds" story from last Christmas. It's OK it's not only straight, it's nonerotic.)

You gotta read a good sample of Lit. stories to give sweeping generalizations on what "Lit. stories" do/don't do.

But, back on this plot/storyline thing. At least with the writers and publishing people I encounter, there is so little differentiation made between these, that it really makes no difference when they are discussed. They are pretty much discussed like they are synonymous. On that basis, I don't see making a distinction much more than as avoidance from sitting down and writing--or perhaps as some sort of smoke screen to appear as an intentional writer without really having to be one.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

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[sr71plt]

Well, sure. I have no idea what you are addressing that to. But sure. It would be nice for you to show rather than tell, though, JBJ. Of course to show that you don't write them all alike, you'd have to write at least two, and there's no evidence you've ever written even one.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

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[sr71plt]

I didn't see that you had a point, JBJ. Certainly nothing in relation to any points I made, and you posted after one of my postings.

I know where I want all of my stories to go. I've said so more than once on these boards. I've got lots and lots of full-blown stories, with plots and everything, posted on Lit.

I'm not really interested in your points on writing. You have shown no stories to prove that you even have an oar in these waters.

 

[starscape]

Like most of the other answers, I think they're generally the same thing, except where a distinction between the general plot and the precise storyline. Unfortunately, the distinction, when made, seems to be context sensitive where sometimes "Plot Elements" are subservient to the "Storyline" and other times, the Storyline has to support the Plot. I don't think there is a standardized hierarchy of distinction.

But, back on this plot/storyline thing. At least with the writers and publishing people I encounter, there is so little differentiation made between these, that it really makes no difference when they are discussed. They are pretty much discussed like they are synonymous.

I think this is what tripped me up. I pretty much have been operating by the assumption they are one and the same. When I got that feedback that distinguished between them I was thrown off, especially since he didn't provide any details which would help me suss out what he considered to be one or the other.

A Plot Twist is when a Plot/storyline starts out as a generic or formulaic plot tolead the reader to expect a generic or formulaic flow to the story but then twists plot elements around to take the story in a different direction than the expectation raised by the initial setup.

This is my understanding of what it is as well. That's why I was a little confused by the idea that a plot is only a general statement of what the story is about then. Why would a detail/event that unexpectedly changes the direction of the story be called a plot twist if a plot is, for example, "A man wrongly accused of murder must find his wife's killer"?

I suppose I considered stuff like "A man wrongly accused of murder must find his wife's killer" to be a summary, or maybe the theme? And what JBJ described, for me, I had always assumed to be the outline maybe?

I'm finding I know a lot less of the jargon than I thought. I suppose like everyone else, I utilize a lot of literary devices in my writing. Although there are certainly things I'm aware of like foreshadowing, cliffhangers, symbolism, etc., most of the time I don't think about it. I'm just trying to tell a good story. It isn't until someone makes a reference to a term when commenting on my work that it comes to my attention.

I was going to comment on this last night.

I started off by thinking of a bare-bones "boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl."

Then I started to write out a more detailed specific; "postman meets a reclusive girl on his route..."

And I ended up writing out a rather promising horror story premise, instead of answering your thread!

I'm glad this thread inspired your creative efforts. Never let a forum posting keep you from inspiration!

 

[Stella_Omega]

When I got that feedback that distinguished between them I was thrown off, especially since he didn't provide any details which would help me suss out what he considered to be one or the other.

it's probable that your commenter isn't sure of the difference either.

I have the feeling that he meant " a good plot and good narrative," you know? You told the story well. Which is of the good