Please read Chapter one and Chapter two first!

[KillerMuffin]

You know those author's notes. You click into chapter 5 and you get a cheerful little note telling you that you should read chapters 1 through 4 in order before you read chapter 5 if you already haven't so you know what's going on.

[sarcasm]I certainly never would have figured out on my own that I should read the story from the beginning first. I forgot that I was that stupid. Thanks for reminding me! [/sarcasm]

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

KillerMuffin,

Don't forget, writers have to deal with single digit IQ readers such as moi. But seriously folks, don't some writers set-up their multi-chapter stories so each chapter can stand alone?

RF

 

[Couture]

Other stupid things that get on my nerves...

The coffee and other hot liquids are extremely hot! Don't spill it on your crotch.

Do not put your child's head inside this plastic bag. It could fucking kill them.

 

[Guest]

 

[Dirty Slut]

What is a short story???? LOL

Mostly not, from my experience.

I am a believer that if someone is going to publish a multi-part story, they should do it all at once. That way, if I like it, I can read it all.

It is the extremely rare Part 1 that I read I even remember when Part 2 comes out. And when I see a story in the New listings that sounds intriguing, but is Part X and X not equals one, I tend to skip it.

I agree, in part that is. Or at least here at lit. Anyone who has writen a novel knows that it is simply filled with short stories that would stand on their own alone, save for character discriptions. They are called chapters in a book instead of given a name title, or subtitle, because each of the stories when put together in a book, in the order that they took place makes a much fuller, and completely detailed story. When I first started reading the stories posted here at lit I wrongfully assumed that each part was a story in, and of itself here as well. Once I realized that this site is both for novice, as well as experianced writers I stopped reading parts except for those writen by the more experianced writers on this site, such as Killermuffin.

DS

 

[Mhari]

I dunno. I kinda think the stupidest warning is on soda bottles: "Point away from face while opening."

The sad part is, you just know someone managed to put an eye out while opening a soda bottle...

 

[damppanties]

KillerMuffin,

As Rumple pointed out, many authors write stand alone chapters to their multi-chapter stories where reading any of them one first would not make a difference. In cases where the chapter 2, 3 or whatever are accessed from the top stories list or the new stories list, etc., readers might assume they are not a continuation and click on it. What's wrong with a pointer that the story needs to be enjoyed in the order in which it was written and posted?

 

[snooper]

Re: What is a short story???? LOL

Anyone who has writen a novel knows that it is simply filled with short stories that would stand on their own alone, save for character discriptions.

As the author of eleven published novels, may I say that this is exactly what a novel is not; a good novel, that is.

Like a good short story, a good novel has a beginning, a middle and and end; it has a plot running through it from start to finish, maybe with one or more sub-plots also.

Most importantly, any good story (short, long, novella, novel, or epic) has the right number of words in it to express what the author wishes the reader to know. The perfect story has exactly the right number of words in it. (Cf. Mozart and the number of notes in a piece of music.)

When editing other people's "short stories" I have been known to remark that what they have written is an incident which should be part of a longer piece.

NB. I make no claim that my novels are even good, let alone perfect, but none of them can be read as a series of short stories.

 

[Guest]

Re: What is a short story???? LOL

I agree, in part that is. Or at least here at lit. Anyone who has writen a novel knows that it is simply filled with short stories that would stand on their own alone, save for character discriptions. They are called chapters in a book instead of given a name title, or subtitle, because each of the stories when put together in a book, in the order that they took place makes a much fuller, and completely detailed story. When I first started reading the stories posted here at lit I wrongfully assumed that each part was a story in, and of itself here as well. Once I realized that this site is both for novice, as well as experianced writers I stopped reading parts except for those writen by the more experianced writers on this site, such as Killermuffin.

DS

What kind of novels have you read, DS? I mean printed, hardcopy, published novels?

Each chapter in a novel most certainly isn't a stand alone short story, it just isn't written that way.

Snooper's already said most of it, but I just want to add a couple of points. Each chapter in a novel is intricately woven into the ones preceeding it and hints at events to come in those after it. I don't know of any good novel where I could pick out just one chapter and read it as a short story with a beginning, middle and end. I wouldn't know who the characters were, why they were doing certain things, and how they would get out of a given situation.

Novice writers might write chapters of a novel as stand alone stories, but experienced writers do not.

Lou

P.S. Snooper, eleven published novels! Good on you!

 

[Icingsugar]

Re: Re: What is a short story???? LOL

Novice writers might write chapters of a novel as stand alone stories, but experienced writers do not.

Then of course, there are some brilliant exceptions to this, where a few chapters are standalone stories only closely related to the novel's main plot.

Just wanted to say that.

 

[Guest]

You are right Ice, I realise mine was a very general and sweeping statement. There are always exceptions to the rule.

I was actually thinking of novels that were written by successful authors and are, or have been, in mass production: those which can be bought in bookshops. I was in no way doing down the talent of any writers here at Lit. I was merely disagreeing with the fact that only 'novice' writers write novels in which each chapter doesn't work as a stand alone story. This is the case for the vast majority of novels ever written, and published.

Lou

 

[oggbashan]

I wrote my NaNo work as chapters, the first time that I have broken my stories up as chapters.

It worked. I would prefer people to read chapter 1 first and chapter 12 last but chapters 2 to 11 could be read in any order.

I tried to make all the chapters stand alone short stories in their own right. It seemed to work but I wouldn't do it if I were writing a novel. In a novel, each chapter should be an entity but should only work as part of the whole. That works in hard copy. I'm not sure that it is a good idea in Literotica because your work gets broken up into Lit pages anyway.

For Literotica it is probably better to write a novel as stand alone chapters of no more than two Lit pages, and each chapter should be self-sufficient even if that means a scene-setting introduction to each one.

Never over-estimate the intelligence of your readers. Some are incredibly dumb as some of our feedback demonstrates.

Og

 

[Icingsugar]

You are right Ice, I realise mine was a very general and sweeping statement. There are always exceptions to the rule.

I was actually thinking of novels that were written by successful authors and are, or have been, in mass production: those which can be bought in bookshops. I was in no way doing down the talent of any writers here at Lit.

Neither was I. I was thinking of novels by successful, acclaimed published, even award-winning authors. I think my main point is that writing a short story in the midst of a novel - and get away with it - is pretty damn hard. It takes an experienced and talented writer to pull off.

But I agree with you that generally a chapter is not really doing it's job unless it's a cliffhanger to the next one, and that that is the way it most often is done.

 

[OldnotDead]

Thanks for the suggestions

Yes, KM, I have seen those comments, but didn't quite think of them as brainless as some warnings. You are right, though, with titles having 'Ch . . .' in them, it shouldn't require a warning.

I do like it when an author points out that a story without chapter headings is part of a series about some characters and let's me know the chronological order, in case I want to read more.

I have a multi parter which I am doing to keep the chapters to digestible portions. Yes, Pierce, I've tried to write it so each part will stand alone, but I will think about that more carefully.

There are a couple of multi parters where authors have put in synopsis of either character or action so that you don't have to go back to earlier pieces unless you want. I'm going to think about doing that.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

I was actually thinking of novels that were written by successful authors and are, or have been, in mass production: those which can be bought in bookshops. I was in no way doing down the talent of any writers here at Lit.

Lou,

Check out Chapter Three, "The Grapes of Wrath," by John Steinbeck. It manages to be both stand-alone and integrated. But then Steinbeck was a great writer who received the ultimate author's accolade--being spotlighted on Oprah.

Rumple

 

[LorriLove]

hiya

hmm yes i see km's point with the pointless comment thingie from her viewpoint, (wow what a lot of points), but then km's a highly educated lass as most who frequent this hangout are, (sept me). but what we mustn't forget as rumple already said is that a large number of literotica readers aren't even into joined up writing yet let alone joined up reading.

is a bloody silly thing to put though, read chap one first, i wonder about the ability of such an author feeling the need to point that out.

there are a lot of silly sounding warnings about the world aren't there, my favourite is the fireworks, you go buy a fucking great explosive device that shoots fire balls 2 hundred feet up and it says in very innocent looking words on the side, 'do not hold'.

 

[Guest]

Lorri, love,

I understand what you say, but I must say you are one of the better educated women I've ever known. Trust me on that, I've been working at universities more than 15 years (plus I'm older than you ).

You often have astute observations and a unique expression of them, all the more to add to my expectations of your own first "chapter".

regards, Perdita

 

[Weird Harold]

You click into chapter 5 and you get a cheerful little note telling you that you should read chapters 1 through 4 in order before you read chapter 5 if you already haven't so you know what's going on.

Actually, I kind of appreciate those "I'm too lazy to add a few reminders of who is who to the story I started three years ago," comments. They let me know that I'm likely to get totally lost in this chapter unless I C&P all the little pieces into a single Word Doc to read as it should have been posted -- one single piece.

Stories that are written and posted as separate chapters over a long period should have a synopsis or at least a few reminders scattered around to remind the reader of what happened in the preceding episode.

Unfortunately, there are very few Saturday Morning Serial fans left who understand the concept of serialized stories from direct experience. Serialized stories are different from novels, but they're out of fashion in the Publishing Industry so the techniques for making them readable aren't well remembered.

 

[Dirt Man]

Cliff hangers vs. short stories in a novel.

Neither was I. I was thinking of novels by successful, acclaimed published, even award-winning authors. I think my main point is that writing a short story in the midst of a novel - and get away with it - is pretty damn hard. It takes an experienced and talented writer to pull off.

But I agree with you that generally a chapter is not really doing it's job unless it's a cliffhanger to the next one, and that that is the way it most often is done.

The idea of making the end of each chapter a cliff hanger is so that they keep reading, but it is still a short story in and of itself.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[raphy]

Most good stories can't be broken down into self-contained smaller stories. They may contain separatable incidents, but that's not even a guarantee. A good tale has a number of threads running through it that overlap with one another.

Just look at Babylon 5 - probably the best writing TV's ever seen.

 

[The_old_man]

Just a minor question. If the story / Novelia is too long to fit on one entry form page, should you: a. rewrite to fit? b. break it into equal length parts with 'stand alone rewrite on each? c. give the parts chapter numbers?

The one story I submited in parts was choice c.

 

[Guest]

Lou,

Check out Chapter Three, "The Grapes of Wrath," by John Steinbeck. It manages to be both stand-alone and integrated. But then Steinbeck was a great writer who received the ultimate author's accolade--being spotlighted on Oprah.

Rumple

Thanks, Rumple.

I was going to ask for some suggestions of well known works, and they don't get much more well known than that!

I had a think last night, if there were any books I'd read which did contain a stand alone chapter, and I remembered one. It's by Richard Laymon, and it's called "Amara" ("To Wake The Dead" in the US). The middle section of the novel is a short story in and of itself. I'd actually read the very same short story in one of his anthologies a few months previously, the ending had been altered slightly, but that was all. As part of the novel it was also seemlessly woven into the plot.

I doubt very much Laymon would ever get spotlighted by Oprah. He was a damn good writer, but not quite 'mainstream' enough.

Lou

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Just a minor question. If the story / Novelia is too long to fit on one entry form page, should you: a. rewrite to fit? b. break it into equal length parts with 'stand alone rewrite on each? c. give the parts chapter numbers?

The one story I submited in parts was choice c.

There's always
D. Submit as an attachment instead. That way there is no word limit...

 

[Guest]

Re: Cliff hangers vs. short stories in a novel.

The idea of making the end of each chapter a cliff hanger is so that they keep reading, but it is still a short story in and of itself.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

What about preceeding events in the novel the author presumes the reader will know about? What about the characterization and plot development that has gone on in earlier chapters? What about the cliffhanger from the previous chapter?

As has already been said, by Snooper, I think, every story has a beginning, middle and end. Whether it takes 3,000, 30,000 or 300,000 words to tell the complete story doesn't matter. A novel is a long story, sometimes a very long story, not a series of short stories lumped together.

Lou

 

[Dirt Man]

Re: Re: Cliff hangers vs. short stories in a novel.

What about preceeding events in the novel the author presumes the reader will know about? What about the characterization and plot development that has gone on in earlier chapters? What about the cliffhanger from the previous chapter?

As has already been said, by Snooper, I think, every story has a beginning, middle and end. Whether it takes 3,000, 30,000 or 300,000 words to tell the complete story doesn't matter. A novel is a long story, sometimes a very long story, not a series of short stories lumped together.

Lou

You are right, of course, but I suppose it depends on what our perception of a short story is, don't you think? To me every chapter deals with something that would make a great short story if done slightly differently. Just my thoughts. For instance I've written a 2 part story for Christmas but each would be a short story in and of itself. Since they fit on four lit pages Laurel kept them together as one submission for me.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man