Please... please... Stop the Insanity!

[elsol]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10247946/

My favorite is

“People are definitely going to notice it,” Fernandez said. “We want that shock. We want that awe. But at the same time, we don’t want people to feel their rights are being threatened. We need them to be our eyes and ears.”

Okay... am I the only one that this sounds patently ridiculous to?

We really ARE getting dumber, aren't we?

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[amicus]

ElSol... They are doing about the same thing in New York City, so said the news several weeks ago. The report seemed to imply that people on the mass transit systems appreciated the presence of armed policemen.

It is now cliche' to say that 9/11 changed not just New York City, but changed the entire nation and the world.

For those who have read the history of world war two, the blackouts, food rationing, no automobile manufacturing, no appliances, meatless Friday's, shortages of all kinds, restrictiions on ethnic groups, (Germans and Japanese).

That is what war does to a people, puts them on the defensive.

Islam has declared war on the western world and nations are reacting in different ways in their own best interests.

England, France and Spain have all initiated many anti-terrorist programs and they as well as we here in the U.S. await the next terror attack, hoping to defer it or prevent it if possible.

Rather than criticize a nation for trying to protect its people, I might suggest a query as to the motives of a Jihad culture.

amicus...

 

[SummerMorning]

Well ... a critical theory perspective would actually argue something else.

A fringe group managed to pull off a successful attack with a couple of airliners which was used as an excuse to introduce repressive measures by capitalist governments intent on maintaining the status quo.

Far as I can tell, Al Qaida is not the legal representative of the Islamic World ... and I doubt any such representative could even exist.

Salutara.

 

[amicus]

Well ... a critical theory perspective would actually argue something else.

A fringe group managed to pull off a successful attack with a couple of airliners which was used as an excuse to introduce repressive measures by capitalist governments intent on maintaining the status quo.

Far as I can tell, Al Qaida is not the legal representative of the Islamic World ... and I doubt any such representative could even exist.

Salutara.

SummerMorning.... I assume you have access to cable television and are aware of the ongoing debate all over the world concerning your flippant, 'fringe group' Al Quaida that has sponsored thousands of Islamic terror attacks in dozens of countries all around the globe.

The current crop of Muslim terrorists began with the creation of Israel in about 1947 when the 'muslim' Arabs bonded together and attacked Israel to 'drive them into the sea.'

Since that time there have been tens of thousands of suicide bombings, kidnappings, hijackings and mass murder of innocents, all in the name of Allah.

Pull your head out of the sand.


amicus...

 

[matriarch]

Al Quaida does not represent the millions of law abiding muslims going about their normal, peaceful lives all over the world, any more than any other extremist group is acting on behalf of the individuals who makes up the [insert whichever religious movement, environmental group, animal protection organisation, breakaway state] they purport to represent.

I would suggest you pull your head out of the sand....or maybe's its just easier to ignore the truth in there.

 

[amicus]

Al Quaida does not represent the millions of law abiding muslims going about their normal, peaceful lives all over the world, any more than any other extremist group is acting on behalf of the individuals who makes up the [insert whichever religious movement, environmental group, animal protection organisation, breakaway state] they purport to represent.

I would suggest you pull your head out of the sand....or maybe's its just easier to ignore the truth in there.

Matriarch, I sense you err on the point.

Not all Germans were Nazi's, not all Russians belonged to the Communist Party. I know that...you know that.

Not all Muslims are radical fundamentalists, that goes without saying.

Your point was?

amicus...

 

[matriarch]

Matriarch, I sense you err on the point.

Not all Germans were Nazi's, not all Russians belonged to the Communist Party. I know that...you know that.

Not all Muslims are radical fundamentalists, that goes without saying.

Your point was?

amicus...

You just made it.
Thank you for confirming it.

 

[amicus]

No, you missed (or ignored) the point.

The Nazi's still invaded Poland and the Communist's still occupied much of Eastern Europe.

The stated goals of the Koran and of the religion in general, is to re-occupy the entire middle east and recreate the glory of past Arab grandeur.

The entire civilized world, through the United Nations, stands in the way of Muslim domination.

Perhaps you are the last person on earth to recognize that?

amicus...

 

[TheEarl]

The current crop of Muslim terrorists began with the creation of Israel in about 1947 when the 'muslim' Arabs bonded together and attacked Israel to 'drive them into the sea.'

Amicus: Before we get too black and white on the issue, might I remind you that Israel was actually created by fiat. Land which was owned solely by the Palestinians was annexed by the Great Powers to create a new country.

If a bigger country than the US came along and announced that your state was now a new Palestinian republic, not part of the USA anymore and then proceeded to arm that new republic with high-tech weaponry to prevent you taking it back, then you'd probably be a bit upset.

Before you attack me for supporting terrorism, or whatever misconception you want to foist on me, I'm not supporting their methods at all. Terrorists are mass-murdering fuckheads. However, the issues that started and fuel the whole thing are not as black and white as you would purport.

The Earl

 

[TheEarl]

No, you missed (or ignored) the point.

The Nazi's still invaded Poland and the Communist's still occupied much of Eastern Europe.

The stated goals of the Koran and of the religion in general, is to re-occupy the entire middle east and recreate the glory of past Arab grandeur.

The entire civilized world, through the United Nations, stands in the way of Muslim domination.

Perhaps you are the last person on earth to recognize that?

amicus...

Amicus: The stated goals in the bible are for Israel to regain her past borders and then for the rapture to come, leaving everyone who isn't Christian to burn in hellfire.

Sometimes, it's wise to look at things from several points of view, before forming a dead set opinion.

The Earl

 

[amicus]

"...Before you attack me for supporting terrorism, or whatever misconception you want to foist on me, I'm not supporting their methods at all. Terrorists are mass-murdering fuckheads. However, the issues that started and fuel the whole thing are not as black and white as you would purport..."

The Earl
__________________


Amicus: "...The stated goals in the bible are for Israel to regain her past borders and then for the rapture to come, leaving everyone who isn't Christian to burn in hellfire.

Sometimes, it's wise to look at things from several points of view, before forming a dead set opinion..."

The Earl


I enjoy reading history. Not just the history of nations, but the history of religions, or science, of man in general. It is a long and tedious history of conflict as far back as we have records and accounts. The rise of the Dynasties in China is fascinating, as is the history of the sub-continent of India.

There are many, many things I do not know nor fully understand about the nature of human history throughout time. But I know rather more than most and thus, when I present a point of view, it is not without some thought and consideration.

I have thought to go beyond or beneath the actual history and consider the motivations of those people who lived and died in those historical movements.

That, of course, requires a smattering of Philosophy (my major) and many other things, geography, geology, global weather, et cetera.

For example, I have created a fictional civilization, some 10 thousand years ago, placed in the pacific northwest of the United States.

They most likely will be slow in developing into the iron age as metal deposits in that part of the world are scarce.

They most likely will be slow in developing astronomy because of the mountainous terrain and cloudy weather for nine months of the year. They simply can't see enough of the stars to fix the patterns of the sun and moon on a consistent basis.

So that in addition to the particular religion or form of government a civilization has, it is also in large part other factors that guide development.

Most early civilizations formed along waterways, for transportation and agriculture and then moved inland.

While most of what I have said does not directly reply to your comments, I do consider other points of view, always.

I also take into consideration the passage of time. I wonder, for example, when all the oil is finally pumped out of the ground in the middle east, and that day will come, what then?

I have no great love for Christianity or Islam, I personally think religion is a refuge for those who don't have the ability to think. I also, however, recognize the importance of ritual and consistency in the early development of mankind, and religion played that role.

amicus...



__________________

 

[SummerMorning]

SummerMorning.... I assume you have access to cable television and are aware of the ongoing debate all over the world concerning your flippant, 'fringe group' Al Quaida that has sponsored thousands of Islamic terror attacks in dozens of countries all around the globe.

The current crop of Muslim terrorists began with the creation of Israel in about 1947 when the 'muslim' Arabs bonded together and attacked Israel to 'drive them into the sea.'

Since that time there have been tens of thousands of suicide bombings, kidnappings, hijackings and mass murder of innocents, all in the name of Allah.

Pull your head out of the sand.


amicus...

Have you ever been to the "Muslim world"? Have you lived in places you would call Islamic for years?

No?

I wonder who's head is in the sand.

Oh ... and the Creation of Israel? In that case, might I assume you are actually suggesting the Muslim extremists might have a defendible case? Namely fighting for their rights and so forth?

 

[SummerMorning]

Ah. I see I replied before I saw Earl's mention of the israelite fiat.

PS - I really don't see the point of your fascination for early civilizations to the debate in this thread. I share that fascination, but ... the point?

 

[Boxlicker101]

ElSol... They are doing about the same thing in New York City, so said the news several weeks ago. The report seemed to imply that people on the mass transit systems appreciated the presence of armed policemen.

It is now cliche' to say that 9/11 changed not just New York City, but changed the entire nation and the world.

For those who have read the history of world war two, the blackouts, food rationing, no automobile manufacturing, no appliances, meatless Friday's, shortages of all kinds, restrictiions on ethnic groups, (Germans and Japanese).

That is what war does to a people, puts them on the defensive.

Islam has declared war on the western world and nations are reacting in different ways in their own best interests.

England, France and Spain have all initiated many anti-terrorist programs and they as well as we here in the U.S. await the next terror attack, hoping to defer it or prevent it if possible.

Rather than criticize a nation for trying to protect its people, I might suggest a query as to the motives of a Jihad culture.

amicus...

Ami, I don't very often agree with you, but I do here, except that you should have referred to "Radical Islam" or "Fundamental Islam" or other such modifier. Most Muslims, like most people everywhere, would rather be left in peace to do their own thing.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

The stated goals of the Koran and of the religion in general, is to re-occupy the entire middle east and recreate the glory of past Arab grandeur.

The stated goals of the Koran is to re-occupy the entire middle east and recreate of the glory of what past Arab grandeur? Before the Koran was written, no one had ever occupied the entire middle east (so, re-occupy what?) and there had been no glory of past Arab grandeur. In fact, there had been no Arab grandeur at all, with or without glory. That only came after the Koran. So, the only question is "stated by whom?"

You're so full of shit it's funny.

 

[Boxlicker101]

The stated goals of the Koran is to re-occupy the entire middle east and recreate of the glory of what past Arab grandeur? Before the Koran was written, no one had ever occupied the entire middle east (so, re-occupy what?) and there had been no glory of past Arab grandeur. In fact, there had been no Arab grandeur at all, with or without glory. That only came after the Koran. So, the only question is "stated by whom?"

You're sort of right but some empires came close to conquering the entire Middle East. The Persian Empire, the empire of Alexander, the Roman empire and the Ottoman Empire.

 

[amicus]

Have you ever been to the "Muslim world"? Have you lived in places you would call Islamic for years?

No?

I wonder who's head is in the sand.

Oh ... and the Creation of Israel? In that case, might I assume you are actually suggesting the Muslim extremists might have a defendible case? Namely fighting for their rights and so forth?

No, I have not lived in an Arab country for any length of time. I have also not lived in Russia when it was the USSR, nor in Germany under the Nazi's or in Japan under the Emporer.

It is not emperical evidence to which I address my thoughts, but concepts and ideas such as freedom as opposed to slavery.

amicus...

 

[SeaCat]

No, you missed (or ignored) the point.

The Nazi's still invaded Poland and the Communist's still occupied much of Eastern Europe.

The stated goals of the Koran and of the religion in general, is to re-occupy the entire middle east and recreate the glory of past Arab grandeur.

The entire civilized world, through the United Nations, stands in the way of Muslim domination.

Perhaps you are the last person on earth to recognize that?

amicus...

What? Did I just read this right? Ami, take yourself down to the local bookstore and buy yourself a copy of the Quaran please. (If you can find a copy that is.) Then sit yourself down and read it, read it from cover to cover. I want you then to tell me where in there it says to take over the world. Then, once you have done so please take yourself down to the nearest Mosque and talk with the Imam or Holy Man there. Ask all sorts of questions I'm sure he will be happy to answer you. You will learn and notice that there is nothing in the Muslim religeon that states their goal is to take over the world. (It is only a "few" fundamentalists who think this way.) Please as you tell so many of us here. Educate yourself!

Cat

p.s. I would offer to loan you my copy of the Quaran but I don't know if I would get it back, not to mention it was given to me as a gift.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

That's pitiful.

In the days after 9/11, the city fathers of Chicago were falling all over each other in their concern that Chicago would be next. Surely the terrorists would hit Sears Tower or the John Hancock building next. Surely they wouldn't ignore a great metropolitan center like Chicago, Illinois. You could almost feel their chagrin and disappointment when nothing happened

These cops in Florida are suffering from the same thing--terror envy.

George Bush swore that we wouldn't let the terrorists change our way of life, and then he did it for them. History will show that what Americans fought and died for for over 200 years was surrendered to 19 suicidal Arab maniacs in 2001 without a fight.

 

[Gi_Venus]

Our only victory will be to live life as we always have, without fear and with an open mind. That is something that would render all acts of terror impotent and useless. To make major changes as a reaction to their acts is to encourage them.

 

[SeaCat]

Our only victory will be to live life as we always have, without fear and with an open mind. That is something that would render all acts of terror impotent and useless. To make major changes as a reaction to their acts is to encourage them.

Shhhhhh, don't let Uncle George hear you say that. He'll have you imprisoned for seditious thoughts.

Cat

 

[amicus]

What? Did I just read this right? Ami, take yourself down to the local bookstore and buy yourself a copy of the Quaran please. (If you can find a copy that is.) Then sit yourself down and read it, read it from cover to cover. I want you then to tell me where in there it says to take over the world. Then, once you have done so please take yourself down to the nearest Mosque and talk with the Imam or Holy Man there. Ask all sorts of questions I'm sure he will be happy to answer you. You will learn and notice that there is nothing in the Muslim religeon that states their goal is to take over the world. (It is only a "few" fundamentalists who think this way.) Please as you tell so many of us here. Educate yourself!

Cat

p.s. I would offer to loan you my copy of the Quaran but I don't know if I would get it back, not to mention it was given to me as a gift.

Hey, Cat, cable television is a great thing. On a good day I can surf from Ancient Chinese History to a live shot on the space station. I can watch and listen to the recently departed Carl Sagan and his Cosmos series and even visit a channel that has Arab scholars debating the very issue you brought up.

I am not and do not wish to be, either a bible scholar nor a 'Quaran' scholar as you put it. But I have listened to and heard, as you apparently have not, readings from the Koran, direct quotes where-in the impetus is to eliminate the unholy by all means, including the entire family.

So maybe you can snow some of the people here into thinking that Muslims are a peaceful lot, but history and the actual words of guidance indicate that you either do not know the truth or you do not post the truth.

 

[amicus]

Our only victory will be to live life as we always have, without fear and with an open mind. That is something that would render all acts of terror impotent and useless. To make major changes as a reaction to their acts is to encourage them.

How female that sounds....and how silly.

The reaction to the act of Hitler invading Poland brought a declaration of War by the Brits.

I suppose your advice would be to sit back and await your destiny to arrive dressed in a Swastika?

egads...

 

[elsol]

'shock and awe'!

They're going to stage 'suprise' shows of force to scare the terrorist.

Let me explain this to you in an easy to understand equation

More cops = More meaningful victims

If I'm a terrorist... and I'm ALREADY on site... I'm going to cum my pants when I see the cops coming.

That's why the hit the Pentagon and Twin Towers... nothing so fucking beautiful as watching 'shocked and awed' cops as they are carried away on stretchers.

If you're going to do this shit... you don't fucking ADVERTISE it.

Step 1.

a) THINK LIKE A FUCKING TERRORIST!

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Step 1.

a) THINK LIKE A FUCKING TERRORIST!

That's what they're doing. "If no one comes terrorise us, we'll terrorise ourselves, damn it."