Please give me your opinions on this poem from a novice poet

[D A Stone]

I have never felt that I was cut out for writing poetry as most of my attempts have sounded to me like they belonged in sappy greeting cards, but a special lady friend of mine really liked this one that I wrote and I would appreciate any and all opinions on it. Feedback on my use of the sestina form would also be appreciated.

D A Stone (the male half)

P.S. I suck at choosing titles so this is simply called Dreams.

This poem is for my special lady, Kim

Dreams

My nights are filled with dreams
Dreams filled with love
In my soul you have set a fire
A burning passion
That fills me with desire
Testing the limit of my heart's strength

I sometimes fear that I lack the strength
To pursue my dreams
To follow my heart's desire
To risk all for love
To give into my passion
Afraid I will be consumed by your fire

I gaze into the fire
Seeking the strength
To give you my passion
And follow my dreams
So that we can grow in love
As we both so fervently desire

I truly desire
To pass through the fire
That will temper my love
Filling me with the strength
To live out my dreams
And release my hidden passion

You ask me what is my passion
What is my heart's desire
What are my dreams
What ignites my inner fire
Where do I draw my strength
The answer to all of these is your love

Yes, it is your love
That fills me with passion
That gives me strength
That fills me with desire
Your love is the fire
That fuels my dreams

I have wonderful dreams filled with your love
My love for you is a raging fire filling me with a burning passion
There is nothing more I desire than to share in your strength

 

[WickedEve]

I don't think you missed a single cliché in this one.
But if it's for a friend and she likes it, then you have won over your audience with your poem. If you want this to appeal to a more general audience, then it needs work. I hate to say this again: "show, don't tell" and watch out for those clichés.
As far as the form goes, it appears to be accurate.
I'd love to see a revision with fresher words to replace passion, desire, fire, love, heart. Though, I do believe certain forms of poetry seem to allow clichés to slip in. I just peeked at one of my poems that is terzanelle and sure enough it has love, lover and desire. It seems to be easier to get away from over using those words in free form, or perhaps, more practice with forms can help eliminate the problem.
Anyway, good luck with your poetry and welcome to the board.

 

[D A Stone]

I don't think you missed a single cliché in this one.
But if it's for a friend and she likes it, then you have won over your audience with your poem. If you want this to appeal to a more general audience, then it needs work. I hate to say this again: "show, don't tell" and watch out for those clichés.
As far as the form goes, it appears to be accurate.
I'd love to see a revision with fresher words to replace passion, desire, fire, love, heart. Though, I do believe certain forms of poetry seem to allow clichés to slip in. I just peeked at one of my poems that is terzanelle and sure enough it has love, lover and desire. It seems to be easier to get away from over using those words in free form, or perhaps, more practice with forms can help eliminate the problem.
Anyway, good luck with your poetry and welcome to the board.

Well, as I said, I've never claimed to be much of a poet, but my target audience of 1 really liked it. I may try again as you suggest with six different words. Thanks for the response.

D A Stone

 

[The_Fool]

I don't think you missed a single cliché in this one.
But if it's for a friend and she likes it, then you have won over your audience with your poem. If you want this to appeal to a more general audience, then it needs work. I hate to say this again: "show, don't tell" and watch out for those clichés.
As far as the form goes, it appears to be accurate.
I'd love to see a revision with fresher words to replace passion, desire, fire, love, heart. Though, I do believe certain forms of poetry seem to allow clichés to slip in. I just peeked at one of my poems that is terzanelle and sure enough it has love, lover and desire. It seems to be easier to get away from over using those words in free form, or perhaps, more practice with forms can help eliminate the problem.
Anyway, good luck with your poetry and welcome to the board.

Didn't you do a thread contest like that once?

 

[Senna Jawa]

Years ago a friend of mine asked me to write a valentine poem for his girl.

A few years later I participated in a poetic board (which I wish it would continue to exist). A challenge was thrown to write poems, perhaps love poems for and about the participants. Somehow participants kept writing very sexual and boring poems, so I was not interested. Then a shy girl also stepped forward and wanted a poem for her too.

In each case I knew nothing about the girl in question. Thus I could write a poem just as you did, a faceless one which can fit any girl. Except that such "poems" are meaningless, devoid of any authentic emotion, of any feeling, not to mention any artistic merit. You may love your Kim all you want but a generic poem is nothing.

Thus in each case I asked about the person in question. First my friend told me a bit about his girlfriend, then in the later case the girl herself shared a few bits about herself. That allowed me each time to go ahead with the project. The poems each time were truly about the girl in question and not about any girl, "one fits all".

I'll have to find the valentine poem; right now you may read, if you like to, the series for the other young and unknown to me woman:

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp willow girl

(Literotica has changed the formatting, messed it up, sorry for that, I don't have energy to fight Literotica's negligent ways).

Your project is much easier since you know your object so well. And you lived through many situations which were involving her. Take advantage of it in your writing or forget it. Observe how even little knowledge about the object makes a huge difference.

Good luck,

 

[Angeline]

Hiya DA

and welcome to the poetry board. (Those roses are cause you wrote poetry for your sweetheart, which is very cool in my opinion. Hell, you may have cliches in there, but this poet gives you points for being a charming guy )

I see you have met the inimitable Wicked Eve. She's all she says she is and more (whatever that means), and she eats cliches for breakfast. She also knows her poetry (having written some wicked good poems), and I generally agree with her comments.

I'm impressed with anyone who can write a sestina; it is a very difficult poetic form to master. As Eve points out, you and your friend are no doubt happy with it, which is great. It can be improved though.

The problem I see in the poem is that you aren't being specific; your ideas and images are too general to give it impact. Poems really grab you when they offer very specific imagery. Here are a few specific suggestions if you decide to revise.

My nights are filled with dreams
Dreams filled with love
In my soul you have set a fire
A burning passion
That fills me with desire
Testing the limit of my heart's strength

Do this exercise--

1. Write down three specific things you and Kim have done or said to each other that fit what you have generally described in the stanza.

2. For each of the three things, write down a few details that relate to each of the five senses. Say one of the three things were a trip to the beach--

sight--ocean (or a specific shell, or her in a bathing suit , anything that really struck you)

sound--waves, sound in a shell, seagulls

smell--salt air, tanning lotion

taste--ice cream, saltwater

touch--sand, beach towel, skin

3. When you're done, you'll have ample specific details; rewite your poem around them. If you come up with a common phrase, it's probably a cliche (and Eve'll get you ), so try to think of fresh ways to say things.

If you try to revise and you want feedback, just post it in this thread. Good luck if you do, and nice to meet you either way.

Angeline

 

[D A Stone]

thanks for all the comments

I'm glad I'm not sensitive to criticism or I would be feeling pretty crushed right now. Just kidding. I appreciate all of you who have responded and like I said, my target audience of 1 for this poem has already told me how much she loves it (probably because I am the only person who has ever even tried to write poetry to her before).

I will work on the suggestions offered here, because I do feel that if I am going to write her poetry, then it should be better and that it should be truly special, and not 'generic' as one of you pointed out.

As for the use of the sestina form, the reason I chose it was that my son had to write one for school as an assignment and it struck me as an interesting literary form. I had never seen one (at least not that I recognized as one) and I was intrigued.

Again, thanks for all of your comments. I will try to get away from the cliches and hopefully my next offering will be a bit better.

Thanks,

D A Stone

 

[Angeline]

I'm glad I'm not sensitive to criticism or I would be feeling pretty crushed right now. Just kidding. I appreciate all of you who have responded and like I said, my target audience of 1 for this poem has already told me how much she loves it (probably because I am the only person who has ever even tried to write poetry to her before).

I will work on the suggestions offered here, because I do feel that if I am going to write her poetry, then it should be better and that it should be truly special, and not 'generic' as one of you pointed out.

As for the use of the sestina form, the reason I chose it was that my son had to write one for school as an assignment and it struck me as an interesting literary form. I had never seen one (at least not that I recognized as one) and I was intrigued.

Again, thanks for all of your comments. I will try to get away from the cliches and hopefully my next offering will be a bit better.

Thanks,

D A Stone

Don't be crushed; you should see what the old-timers do to each others' poems!

Actually I'm kidding. We're all just trying to help each other here--it's never a judgment against the writer, but an attempt at support. Everyone here uses cliches--they're pretty hard to avoid, but the more you write, of course, the easier they are to spot and edit out.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: thanks for all the comments

Originally posted by D A Stone I will try to get away from the cliches

There is also the other side of the coin. On one hand, yes, provide nothing but concrete images. On the other hand they should induce a reflection/emotion in a reader (but don't tell reader a word like joyful or sorrow ). It follows that you should avoid anything which serves no purpose, which would only distract or be boring. This kind of discipline is crucial to an artist. Well, it's not easy but then, as we say in Polish: it's not the saints who make pottery. Good luck again,

 

[SpiceCake]

I thought it was a beautiful tribute to your love. I have visions of lovers conversations and of intimate thoughts during the day.

Keep writing, please. You will be more comfortable with yourself as as writer with each poem. You will also develop your own style and become strong in that.

Peace!

 

[D A Stone]

I thought it was a beautiful tribute to your love. I have visions of lovers conversations and of intimate thoughts during the day.

Keep writing, please. You will be more comfortable with yourself as as writer with each poem. You will also develop your own style and become strong in that.

Peace!

I truly appreciate your kind words. As I said before, I write for an audience of one and she loves my poetry, but it is nice that you liked it as well. My primary objective in posting here was to see what other's thought so that I can make my poetry better for her.

On a slightly different note, I would ask the critics here the following question.

Isn't the quality of a poem, especially a romantic poem, measured by whether or not the person for whom it was written responds to it emotionally? For example, if the person for whom I wrote this poem felt so touched by it that it brought tears of joy to her eyes and made her hands tremble, then does not that make this a great poem (regardless of the fact that it may have made you want to gag yourself with a spoon after reading it)?

Please don't take my question the wrong way. I asked for feedback and opinions here. I take the good with the bad and hopefully I can learn something that will make my poetic efforts for my lady better.

D A Stone (the wannabe poet half)

 

[HomerPindar]

Isn't the quality of a poem, especially a romantic poem, measured by whether or not the person for whom it was written responds to it emotionally? For example, if the person for whom I wrote this poem felt so touched by it that it brought tears of joy to her eyes and made her hands tremble, then does not that make this a great poem (regardless of the fact that it may have made you want to gag yourself with a spoon after reading it)?

D A Stone (the wannabe poet half)

Yep, absolutely.....if the words have the desired effect, then those words were effective, there's really no other way to define it. Having said that - consider, the next time you have to be MORE effective. She's seen the first poem, now you'll want to impress her with a better poem next time, and so on. Likewise, if you want to impress yourself, you'll keep doing better. You are, after all, you're harshest critic. Or you're not taking your poetry seriously enough ...

My (not so) humble opinions here,

editing to add another thought here, if what you write is a demonstration of your love then the extent to which you will go to learn to write (forms, styles, vocabulary, etc) will further demonstrate you're love in ways which just using words won't. She might never understand what a iambic pentameter Shakespearen rhyme scheme sonnet is, but I assure you, you pull it off and she'll know you put alot of effort into demonstrating your love.

HomerPindar

 

[Senna Jawa]

Isn't the quality of a poem, especially a romantic poem, measured by whether or not the person for whom it was written responds to it emotionally?

Nope. It is more meaningful when you get such a reaction from strangers.

if the person for whom I wrote this poem felt so touched by it that it brought tears of joy to her eyes and made her hands tremble, then does not that make this a great poem

It means that this person cares about you, or is affectionous, perhaps naive, possibly psychologically imbalanced... It may mean a million of things unrelated to the quality of the poem.

(regardless of the fact that it may have made you want to gag yourself with a spoon after reading it)?

Somehow you are trying hard to justify poor pretenses for poems. I don't understand it. Either you want an acceptance from the person for which you've written your text (and that satisfies you) or you want to write good poems. But you want too much. What do you need my approval for? Be happy that the intended person likes your text and leave it at this, don't force me to call a text to be a good poem regardless of its (lack of the) artistic virtues.

 

[D A Stone]

Senna Jawa,

This is the "A" half of the D A Stone. I am the female for whom this poem was written. I have been reading his feedback and I know how hard he is working to improve his writing. He is a gifted writer and he knows how much I enjoy his poetry. I am not a poetry connoisseur by any shake of the imagination. What most people rave about I usually don’t see the point. I admire people who can write poetry, I for one do not have the talent for it. But I do know what I like and what I don’t like.

It means that this person cares about you, or is affectionous, perhaps naive, possibly psychologically imbalanced... It may mean a million of things unrelated to the quality of the poem.

I took no offense to what you said until your comment regarding the reader’s mental state this is totally uncalled for. Yes, I care for him, yes maybe I am naive. How dare you suggest that someone is psychologically imbalanced because they felt emotion for something that was written for them. Who the "L" do you think your are?

Somehow you are trying hard to justify poor pretenses for poems. I don't understand it. Either you want an acceptance from the person for which you've written your text (and that satisfies you) or you want to write good poems. But you want too much. What do you need my approval for? Be happy that the intended person likes your text and leave it at this, don't force me to call a text to be a good poem regardless of its (lack of the) artistic virtues.

We appreciate good honest constructive criticism it is the only way to improve your self. Keep your criticism constructive and not attack someone who asks an honest question. I don’t recall anyone forcing you to make a comment. It’s comments like this, that make me wonder why anyone would want to risk asking for feedback. Perhaps you need to attend an AA (attitude adjustment) meeting.

This is just my opinion, and does not reflect my partners opinions.

D A Stone (female half)

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Hello, D (and A)

I think that, this time, Senna wasn't deliberately attacking you. It was a generalization. His point was that emotional responses like tears of joy and trembling hands (while proving the poem effective if its objective was to touch one particular person) can't be an objective method to evaluate the intrinsic quality of a given piece. It's a measure of your affection for him, your love, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the poem in itself.

My earliest poems were written for my lover. They'll always be special and amongst my favourites. But if it was today, I wouldn't have written them the same way. As love letters to her, they are perfect. As poems, they're not. But that's OK.

 

[SpiceCake]

I have been following this thread very closely. D A Stone, you are indeed brave for putting yourself out there like this. Kudos!!! It's interesting - the feedback. And, it's why I waited until I was secure in myself and my writing before attempting to submit to Lit again. My first time was a disaster for me personally. The feedback was harsh, and I was devastated!

However, I continued to write at the encouragement of friends who liked my poetry and short stories. I have my own style and I write it as it flows from my heart, spirit, soul and mind. It's raw.

And now, I could really give a flying f*ck what anyone says about it. I do appreciate feedback, and it's always nice to hear that someone likes what I have written or that it has touched them in some way. It's mine, I own it and no amount of criticism can take it away...they either like it or they don't. I can look back on my own work over the last 6 years and see my own improvement; that's all I need.

If you want to improve your writing, then take a class at the local college or a workshop at the local bookstore. Challenge yourself to improve, but do it for YOU in the beginning. Don't let others be your harshest critics; do that for yourself. It will be more rewarding and less devastating. The love for writing poetry is there within you, so don't give up!

 

[Angeline]

Hello, D (and A)

I think that, this time, Senna wasn't deliberately attacking you. It was a generalization. His point was that emotional responses like tears of joy and trembling hands (while proving the poem effective if its objective was to touch one particular person) can't be an objective method to evaluate the intrinsic quality of a given piece. It's a measure of your affection for him, your love, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the poem in itself.

My earliest poems were written for my lover. They'll always be special and amongst my favourites. But if it was today, I wouldn't have written them the same way. As love letters to her, they are perfect. As poems, they're not. But that's OK.

I disagree. I think Senna crossed the line--which he may or may not realize. I understand his conviction about what constitutes good poetry. I respect it and for the most part I agree with it. And technically he is correct--any of us could respond to a poem in a certain way for any number of reasons, up to and including mental imbalance. But I fail to see what purpose pointing that out serves other than to be cruel to someone.

Having been a teacher, I understand that negative reinforcement doesn't work. You can coerce me to do things your way or insult or embarrass me, but in the end I'll probably just hate you for it. I won't learn what you want me to learn, for sure, I'll be too caught up in my anger or whatever for that.

Do I think D's poetry can improve? I do. I think mine can, too, as can everyone else's who posted in this thread. I think we all learn better with a little kindness. And you know, I could question the mental balance of people--some in this (gasp) very thread, including (gasp) myself--for lots of actions; then we could all feel bad and agonize over the next poem that much more. So, nah...not worth it.


And I think, Lauren, those first few poems--I know which you mean--remain among your best.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I disagree. I think Senna crossed the line--which he may or may not realize. I understand his conviction about what constitutes good poetry. I respect it and for the most part I agree with it. And technically he is correct--any of us could respond to a poem in a certain way for any number of reasons, up to and including mental imbalance. But I fail to see what purpose pointing that out serves other than to be cruel to someone.

[...]

And I think, Lauren, those first few poems--I know which you mean--remain among your best.

I never said he wasn't an ass-hole. Just that this time he didn't do it on purpose. Probably. I could be wrong.

And thank you.

 

[Angeline]

Yes, darling. Whatever you say.

 

[D A Stone]

editing to add another thought here, if what you write is a demonstration of your love then the extent to which you will go to learn to write (forms, styles, vocabulary, etc) will further demonstrate you're love in ways which just using words won't. She might never understand what a iambic pentameter Shakespearen rhyme scheme sonnet is, but I assure you, you pull it off and she'll know you put alot of effort into demonstrating your love.

HomerPindar

This is exactly why I posted here. As I have said before, I make no claims to be a good or even mediocre poet, just that she likes them. Because I think that I could do better with the input and opinions of other people who write poetry, I asked and will do my best to incorporate the suggestions I have received so far. I am also looking into taking a few classes at the local community college in creative writing and poetry.

As for criticism, I think it is like toilet paper. Use it for it's intended purpose and flush it. If I held onto it after I had used it, it would just stink.

D A Stone (the D half)

P.S. Senna, I can take criticism, but your personal attack on Kim was the work of a rude prick. To suggest that she might be mentally unbalanced is just low. As for my poem invoking a similar response from a stranger being the measure of a good poem, then I guess it is a good poem, because it has done that already (several of her friends responded very much as she did.)

 

[Icingsugar]

Ah well. There seems to have been alot said already about this opem, as well as the feedback it have recieved, so I'm not going to be long-winded here. I'll just say what my spontaneous reactions to your effort are:

First of all, if written for an audience of one, and that one reacted as you hoped, then yay, you did right.

But...
You did put it up here, for public reading, soI'll give you a reply from someone who is not that audience.

I think that the reaction does not have to do that much with the poem's content that the fact that you wrote a poem to her. I once painted a portrait of a girlfriend. I could't paint a technically good picture even if my like depended on it, but the intention was rewarded with both tears and kisses. Same thing when I was seven years old and frote a cheezy birthday poen for my grandma.

My reaction to your poem is just that. (except that I don't need a hankie or will come over and make out with you) I can look at your words and lines they tell me that you love her. And that's touching in itself, that you have put that in a poem. However, that's about as far as my reaction as a reader went. If you do want me, as an outsider, to understand, you'll need to be a little bit more inventive than by stacking superlatives on top of eachother.

I have no good suggestions about what to work on other than what has already been suggested. Anyone can say 'I love you', but it takes a good poet to say it with words that normally would mean something completely different.

Ok, that got a bit long winded after all.

 

[Angeline]

(except that I don't need a hankie or will come over and make out with you)

Well, I'm sure he appreciates *that.* lol.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Anyone can say 'I love you', but it takes a good poet to say it with words that normally would mean something completely different.

The way she looks right now, you have to think about multiple car pile-ups. Imagine two bloodmobiles colliding head on. The way she looks, you'd have to think of mass graves to even log thirty seconds in the saddle.

Think of spoiled cat food and ulcerated cankers and expired donor organs.

That's how beautiful she looks.

You mean something like this?

 

[Rybka]

I never said he wasn't an ass-hole. Just that this time he didn't do it on purpose. Probably. I could be wrong.

And thank you.

S.J. will always be S.J. I must agree with Lauren this time. This was Senna "Lite".

Senna Jawa is a poet who can write far above the average poster on this site. Besides here on Literotica, some of his work can be read at: http://republika.pl/wh_poetry/en/index.html
Unfortunately, his social skills often seem below average, at least concerning subjects that really interest him. I think, that at times, he confuses the world of mathematics (where "true" may be provable) with real life. - Unfortunately, things are not so structured in the day-to-day world. My best recommendation is to forget that you don't like him and to go read and learn from his poetry. - He is good! It took me awhile to learn/admit that, but I would like to think that my scribblings have improved after having read his works, digesting, and then excreting what must pass. Don't discount Senna Jawa as merely an obnoxious asshole. He is an excellent poet of a certain style. But please remember that his views/statements are only that of one person.

Regards, Rybka

 

[Icingsugar]

You mean something like this?

Maybe it's just me and the fact that it's 2:30 over here, but that made me laugh until I cramped.