Plan B

[impressive]

Interesting article -- and the comments afterward are interesting, as well.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/04/why_the_wingnuts_hate_plan_b.php

 

[Guest]

its sad. i have no words really...
i wonder if this is piggy backed to another bill? i cant imagine this method would bother any one except some religions..hrm...
wow. food for fodder.
thanks impster.

 

[rgraham666]

I liked it. A simple explanation of how a particular contraceptive works along with a commentary on the morality of it and how this contraceptive should fit in the world view of the pro-lifers.

I liked the term 'rapturous right' to describe the foes of this contraceptive.

In my opinion, much of the opposition to birth control is based on the incipient Puritanism of contraception's opponents. People are not supposed to have fun as far as they're concerned, women especially.

But they always seem like hypocrites to me because they so obviously enjoy their making other people miserable.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I liked it. A simple explanation of how a particular contraceptive works along with a commentary on the morality of it and how this contraceptive should fit in the world view of the pro-lifers.

I liked the term 'rapturous right' to describe the foes of this contraceptive.

In my opinion, much of the opposition to birth control is based on the incipient Puritanism of contraception's opponents. People are not supposed to have fun as far as they're concerned, women especially.

But they always seem like hypocrites to me because they so obviously enjoy their making other people miserable.

It's repressed sado-masochism, turned outward and sublimated into politics and prudish morals.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I wonder, just how long it would take to approve plan b and Ru, if every woman in America told the man in her life, she was going lezzie until there was safe contraception for her, since she could still get sexual gratification and there was no chance of pregnancy that way?

I suspect if every woman in America tossed her boyfreid or husband an Acu-jack and a gift certificate for the local porn parlor and went "shopping" with her girlfreind from work that it would be passed before she got home.

 

[McKenna]

But they always seem like hypocrites to me because they so obviously enjoy their making other people miserable.

Priceless!




The article was clearly written, easy to understand, etc. If the material is presented to the House and Senate in such a way, I don't understand how a bill like this cannot get passed --which only reinforces the idea that the issue isn't Plan B, but maintaining control over women's bodies.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I wonder, just how long it would take to approve plan b and Ru, if every woman in America told the man in her life, she was going lezzie until there was safe contraception for her, since she could still get sexual gratification and there was no chance of pregnancy that way?

I suspect if every woman in America tossed her boyfreid or husband an Acu-jack and a gift certificate for the local porn parlor and went "shopping" with her girlfreind from work that it would be passed before she got home.

Now, now, I wouldn't care to be punished for other men's folly. Maybe just the politicians' wives and mistresses. Maybe they can fuck each other.

 

[McKenna]

Now, now, I wouldn't care to be punished for other men's folly. Maybe just the politicians' wives and mistresses. Maybe they can fuck each other.

Let's not forget the politician's dominatrix, either!

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Let's not forget the politician's dominatrix, either!

Yeah, well, mistress can mean either thing or both in DC....from what I hear...DC has a higher percentage of pro Doms than any other city in America. Wonder why? So many politicians with a need to submit and relax? I suspect that the more female politicians there are, the more same-sex businesses the Dominatrixes will have....and maybe some male Dominators in the future.

 

[McKenna]

Yeah, well, mistress can mean either thing or both in DC....from what I hear...DC has a higher percentage of pro Doms than any other city in America. Wonder why? So many politicians with a need to submit and relax? I suspect that the more female politicians there are, the more same-sex businesses the Dominatrixes will have....and maybe some male Dominators in the future.

Can you believe that guy who embezzled $250k to pay his dominatrix?!

I'm soooo in the wrong line of busines.



/threadjack

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Can you believe that guy who embezzled $250k to pay his dominatrix?!

I'm soooo in the wrong line of busines.



/threadjack

Tell me about it. Maybe I should top for a living too.

 

[cantdog]

The debate at the end of the thing is better than the ones we've had here on this topic, but I imagine it's because of the limited focus of it. Good one, imp. Thanks.

 

[sophia jane]

That was an excellent explanation of plan B. Thanks Imp.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

What if the girls all told their politician hubbies that they would only take it in the mouth and let them eat them out? Another scenario that would work. No matter how much a guy might like BJs and cunnilingus, he would want some PIV sex sooner or later. It might take more time than Colly's scenario or my other one, but it would work. Politicians like pussy too. Well, except for Barney Frank, but he wouldn't be affected by this.

 

[sophia jane]

What if the girls all told their politician hubbies that they would only take it in the mouth and let them eat them out? Another scenario that would work. No matter how much a guy might like BJs and cunnilingus, he would want some PIV sex sooner or later. It might take more time than Colly's scenario or my other one, but it would work. Politicians like pussy too. Well, except for Barney Frank, but he wouldn't be affected by this.

That would rely on the assumption that politicians are only fucking their wives.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

That would rely on the assumption that politicians are only fucking their wives.

Actually, I meant mistresses too pulling that. If a Senator went to his mistress, complaining that his wife wouldn't do it, but she tells him the same thing his wife did, well then, he'd KNOW it was serious business. Hell, this sounds like the Lysistrata from Aristophanes, somewhat.

Oops, guess I shouldn't have said "hubbies" then, should I? So part of me was assuming that most of them didn't cheat. The rest of me (most of me) knows better.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

My comment was very tongue in cheek. Sadly, there are as many anti-abortion, fundy women as men.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

My comment was very tongue in cheek. Sadly, there are as many anti-abortion, fundy women as men.

Hmmm....my comments were tongue-in-cheek, too, Colly. But I HAD to reply to it. And, of course, the sort of people who would vote against it are the sort who probably have spouses who agree with them. Otherwise, it is a fun scenario. On the other side of the coin, for example. What if, hypothetically, some right-wing woman pol's more libertarian hubby threatened to fuck only men until she changed her mind?

 

[Guest]

 

[elfin_odalisque]

That would rely on the assumption that politicians are only fucking their wives.

And I thought all your pervy thoughts had escaped you. Go write the classic DC Loving Wives story

Seriously, I never knew how Plan B worked, so thanks Imp for the article.

We've now reached the stage where a Catholic cardinal can accept condoms (in certain circumstances) and the politicos recoil from Plan B. What exactly is the moral difference between egg suppression and spermicidal cream?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Y aknow, we blame the politicos, but they are really not the problem. They are whores, not prostitues or escorts or any of the higher class. They are simply whores. They roll over for anyone willing to donate and they put their ankles behind their ears at the slightest change in public opinion.

If the average person in the population they represented held intelligent, informed opinions, they would seem a lot smarter. As is, plan b isn't something the average person knows or cares about. This becomes a win/win for a politican. He can show his moral righeteousness to his far right supporters, without alienating his more centrist supporters.

Politcos aren't dumb. At least, they aren't ignorant tot he effects of PR for the most part. If they cast plan B as another form of abotrion and come out strongly against it, they satisfy their fundy supporters and don't alienate anyone else.

 

[impressive]

What exactly is the moral difference between egg suppression and spermicidal cream?

Only one of them can prevent the next virgin birth.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Only one of them can prevent the next virgin birth.

Imp, wish I'd thought of that.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Feel free, of course, to ignore all of the below.

I liked the term 'rapturous right' to describe the foes of this contraceptive.

In my opinion, much of the opposition to birth control is based on the incipient Puritanism of contraception's opponents. People are not supposed to have fun as far as they're concerned, women especially.

But they always seem like hypocrites to me because they so obviously enjoy their making other people miserable.

I enjoy making others happy. Human misery gives me no pleasure and much distress. Perhaps you can see that that might lead some people, in good conscience, to be concerned about the prospect of killing a human being. I don't mind that we disagree on what may or may not be a human being; reasonable people can. If they couldn't, this debate would not exist. I do think it unfortunate that while I can accept that those who wish to support abortion and related medications and procedures are not murderers, they apparently cannot accept that I too have honest reasons for believing what I believe.

It's repressed sado-masochism, turned outward and sublimated into politics and prudish morals.

Or possibly a hesitancy to kill. Does that appear thoroughly impossible to you?

My comment was very tongue in cheek. Sadly, there are as many anti-abortion, fundy women as men.

And there are many of both genders who are not fundamentalists at all.

If the average person in the population they represented held intelligent, informed opinions, they would seem a lot smarter. As is, plan b isn't something the average person knows or cares about. This becomes a win/win for a politican. He can show his moral righeteousness to his far right supporters, without alienating his more centrist supporters.

Politcos aren't dumb. At least, they aren't ignorant tot he effects of PR for the most part. If they cast plan B as another form of abotrion and come out strongly against it, they satisfy their fundy supporters and don't alienate anyone else.

I must take issue with this. I have formed my own opinions on careful examination of the facts. Nothing else could possibly convince me to oppose something that would give so much joy and freedom to people everywhere. In fact, what causes me to object to Plan B is, interestingly, something never mentioned in the article cited - which I find intriguing given that the information is freely available on the website for Plan B. I cannot help but think the omission deliberate:

Plan B® works like a regular birth control pill. It prevents pregnancy mainly by stopping the release of an egg from the ovary, and may also prevent the fertilization of an egg (the uniting of sperm with the egg). Plan B® may also work by preventing it from attaching to the uterus (womb). It is important to know that Plan B® will not affect a fertilized egg already attached to the uterus; it will not affect an existing pregnancy.

Plan B makers have carefully defined "pregnancy," and I don't dispute that there are many ways in which one might define it. However, it's clear from their own description that it can work by preventing a fertilized egg (post-conception) from attaching to the uterus. This is the source of much of the opposition to its use. For those who believe that conception is the beginning of life, the use of this drug must be seen as at least having the potential of killing an independent living being.

I recognize that many do not believe that life begins at conception. I'm not really trying to convince anyone that it does. I would, however, be immensely cheered - if also deeply surprised - if we might consider the possibility that others might have differing opinions for honest and sincere reasons, and not out of a satanic desire to inflict misery on others.

Shanglan

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Feel free, of course, to ignore all of the below.



I enjoy making others happy. Human misery gives me no pleasure and much distress. Perhaps you can see that that might lead some people, in good conscience, to be concerned about the prospect of killing a human being. I don't mind that we disagree on what may or may not be a human being; reasonable people can. If they couldn't, this debate would not exist. I do think it unfortunate that while I can accept that those who wish to support abortion and related medications and procedures are not murderers, they apparently cannot accept that I too have honest reasons for believing what I believe.



Or possibly a hesitancy to kill. Does that appear thoroughly impossible to you?



And there are many of both genders who are not fundamentalists at all.



I must take issue with this. I have formed my own opinions on careful examination of the facts. Nothing else could possibly convince me to oppose something that would give so much joy and freedom to people everywhere. In fact, what causes me to object to Plan B is, interestingly, something never mentioned in the article cited - which I find intriguing given that the information is freely available on the website for Plan B. I cannot help but think the omission deliberate:



Plan B makers have carefully defined "pregnancy," and I don't dispute that there are many ways in which one might define it. However, it's clear from their own description that it can work by preventing a fertilized egg (post-conception) from attaching to the uterus. This is the source of much of the opposition to its use. For those who believe that conception is the beginning of life, the use of this drug must be seen as at least having the potential of killing an independent living being.

I recognize that many do not believe that life begins at conception. I'm not really trying to convince anyone that it does. I would, however, be immensely cheered - if also deeply surprised - if we might consider the possibility that others might have differing opinions for honest and sincere reasons, and not out of a satanic desire to inflict misery on others.

Shanglan

Fair enough. I once believed that life begins at conception myself, so I know that, Shang. But most of this isn't about abortion. It's about opposition to birth control, period. Which is what I consider rather sadistic. Opposition to abortion is a principled thing. I'm still not too keen on abortion myself, though I am weighing all of the evidence before coming to a viewpoint on mid-term abortions. However, I have a hard time seeing Plan B as an "abortion" pill. It's the "morning after" pill, right? Generally, that would suggest it as a primarily contraceptive medication, not an abortion pill, given the length of time that I understand that it takes to even conceive after sex. That's just my take on it.

And facts don't seem to support the anti-abortion viewpoint on first-trimester anyway. So why not leave that to personal opinion and get the law out of the way?

Coercion, as I have said before, is an instrument that should be seldom and cautiously employed. And legislation IS coercion. Government is coercion.