Plagiarism

[ChloeTzang]

Stealing the Plot?

Question for you all. Putting outright plagiarism aside, do you think it's acceptable to "steal the plot." I've been reading a book on the subject, along with a few others on plotting because that's a big weak point for me. A straight forward linear story I'm okay with but the twists and turns and interweaving of a complex plot is a struggle.

Right now I've been reading a short story I really like and it occurred to me that the plot would make a great story for Literotica. So do you think it's acceptable to lift a plot and reuse it, where everything but the basic plot outline is your own?

Be interested to know what you all think on that one.

 

[oggbashan]

Question for you all. Putting outright plagiarism aside, do you think it's acceptable to "steal the plot." I've been reading a book on the subject, along with a few others on plotting because that's a big weak point for me. A straight forward linear story I'm okay with but the twists and turns and interweaving of a complex plot is a struggle.

Right now I've been reading a short story I really like and it occurred to me that the plot would make a great story for Literotica. So do you think it's acceptable to lift a plot and reuse it, where everything but the basic plot outline is your own?

Be interested to know what you all think on that one.

There are only a limited number of plots. Using one that someone else has already used is acceptable - Shakespeare did it.

 

[TANSTAAFL58]

There are only a limited number of plots. Using one that someone else has already used is acceptable - Shakespeare did it.

I was just thinking that very thing. And Shakespeare's plots have been endlessly recycled.

If imitation is the sincerest form of compliment, then plagiarism is the purest form of theft.

There are a lot of contemporary authors who either write lousy sex scenes (I'm lookat you, Mr.King) or write great seductions then stop, either from self-censorship or perhaps they are victims of censorship. I just re-read "Darker than Amber" by John D. MacDonald. At least three times in a 180 page book he writes a fantastic sex scene right up to the point where it has to get explicit, and the next thing you know he's showering and she's napping.

Argh!

There's a challenge: write a proper sex scene for a great hero from fiction:

James Bond?

Captain Kirk?

Han Solo?

Jack Sparrow?

Nick and Nora Charles? (I bet they're really kinky)

Tarzan?

Thelma and Louise (together or separately)

Batman and Catwoman? (There's a lot of that but we can use more)

Or, better yet, fix a truncated sex scene. I'd love to get McGee laid. It's the least you can do for an old friend. And if books aren't your friend, your doing it wrong.

Plagiarism is an ugly word. How about "homage"?

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

I'm sure it applies to books too, but there's one plot-line that I see a lot in movies that can be summarized thusly:
A self-absorbed narcissist falls down on this luck only to discover he's even more awesome than he thought before.
Off the top of my head, movies this can apply to include Fight Club, Iron Man, Dr.Strange, The Matrix, Wanted, and Groundhog Day.

 

[ausfet]

You click on "report story" on the actual story. Posting to feedback board will do nothing.

That second sentence is completely unnecessary.

'Welcome to AH. We like to be condescending cunts if you don't automatically know the Literotica rules'.

 

[Emirus]

Question for you all. Putting outright plagiarism aside, do you think it's acceptable to "steal the plot." Right now I've been reading a short story I really like and it occurred to me that the plot would make a great story for Literotica. So do you think it's acceptable to lift a plot and reuse it, where everything but the basic plot outline is your own?.

My latest story is about a female assassin. Recently, after writing my story, I read a story that gave me an idea for a future episode using my character, but retaining the same basic plot. I don’t see it as plagiarism if you take an idea and give it your own twist. It’s if you lift the story, or the majority of it, and don’t change anything except the names.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Thx everyone for the reassurance. I shall go ahead with the story, stealing the plot adapting to suit and in my own words. The original is quite a twisted little story in its own right considering it was written in the 1940s and by a female Chinese writer.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Right now I've been reading a short story I really like and it occurred to me that the plot would make a great story for Literotica. So do you think it's acceptable to lift a plot and reuse it, where everything but the basic plot outline is your own?

Be interested to know what you all think on that one.

There was an excitement over in the Feedback Forum a while ago where someone claimed "ownership" of a dystopian sci-fi theme. I pointed out that my paperback bookshelf had dozens of writers dabbling in that play ground, most of which were published before the writer was born.

So in the context of broad brush, there's not a lot new, and plot-lifting probably happens a lot. But if you write an alien with wings and a remote sensing nervous system anytime soon, I'd call you on it .

I think it comes down to how unique the other piece was ("Oh no, another family trapped in a burning skyscraper, oh look, this rescuer's got a wooden leg, it was Bruce Willis last time.") and the amount of Tzang you bring to it. Mind you, with your long sex scenes, the skyscraper would be a smouldering wreck by the time you're done. "Shoulda picked a longer story, Chloe."

 

[SimonDoom]

A threshold question to ask is how recent the story is. If the story was published in the last 100 years there's a decent chance somebody owns the copyright to it. But if it was published before, say 1900, there probably is no copyright, so copy to your heart's content. You don't have to think twice, for example, if you want to write an X-rated version of Pride and Prejudice. You are perfectly free to do that.

If it's a relatively recent work, where the copyright might still exist, my advice would be not to copy the plot exactly. Mix it up a bit. Insert a few new plot points, reversals, etc. Don't make the ending exactly the same. And, of course, the characters, character names, dialogue, and setting should be different.

To give an example, if you were to write a story that exactly borrowed the plot of "Twilight", but you changed the setting, characters, and dialogue, that wouldn't be right. You would still be infringing upon the copyright of the author. You shouldn't do that. You can use the basic idea of the plot and some of the main plot points, but you should mix it up, add some new things, and make it your own.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Yes, it was written in 1943 I believe so it's a good 75 years old. What I'm planning is to reuse the basic plot outline. Different characters, I'll change the story, add my own little twists and the story will of course have lots of hot sex (no aliens tho). Anyhow it's a bit experimental for me, I want to see how well I can do it but at the same time making it my own story. I've written the ending now but it needs more work to get the feeling I'm looking for. And not to worry, EB. The sex is lengthy, varied and guaranteed to send the LW readers into a foaming frenzy. Not to mention First Tine, Interracial and whatever else I can work in there.

If anyone's interested, the story I'm looking at as the basis for the plot is Eileen Chang's "Aloeswood Incense" from the book "Love in a Fallen City." She's a marvellous writer. And now..... back to it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yes, it was written in 1943 I believe so it's a good 75 years old. What I'm planning is to reuse the basic plot outline. Different characters, I'll change the story, add my own little twists and the story will of course have lots of hot sex (no aliens tho). Anyhow it's a bit experimental for me, I want to see how well I can do it but at the same time making it my own story. I've written the ending now but it needs more work to get the feeling I'm looking for. And not to worry, EB. The sex is lengthy, varied and guaranteed to send the LW readers into a foaming frenzy. Not to mention First Tine, Interracial and whatever else I can work in there.

If anyone's interested, the story I'm looking at as the basis for the plot is Eileen Chang's "Aloeswood Incense" from the book "Love in a Fallen City." She's a marvellous writer. And now..... back to it.

A 2018 take on a 1943 plot is, almost by definition, going to be sufficiently different in terms of style and content, I would think, that you're going to be fine. Especially with Tzangster sex layered in your usual multiple layers. I'm guessing it's a 5,000 word short story that will become 50,000 words .

 

[TarnishedPenny]

There are only a limited number of plots. Using one that someone else has already used is acceptable - Shakespeare did it.

Precisely.

boy/girl meets girl/boy --> boy/girl becomes interested in girl/boy --> obstacle introduced to love succeeding --> major struggle (physical/financial/mental/time/ethical/etc) --> boy/girl proves himself/herself worthy of girl/boy --> love triumphs, fill in the details

Hit that and you've got 90% of Harlequin Romance plots nailed down. Actually, maybe not, because most of those are female protagonist only, but the principle holds. Outside of that dismal market, it's still 75%. Add zombies, sex scenes or talking pandas, depending on target audience.

The plot's only the skeleton on which characterization, description, etc get hung. It's what's done with the plot and how well the author makes it all hang together that matters. I am happy to get modestly favourable scores; John D MacDonald sold millions of books and retired wealthy; Dickens has entire library shelves of PhD theses written about his stuff. It would be the same if all three of us (had)worked off the same plot - somewhat amusing scribbling vs solid writing vs classic literature.

 

[SimonDoom]

Precisely.

boy/girl meets girl/boy --> boy/girl becomes interested in girl/boy --> obstacle introduced to love succeeding --> major struggle (physical/financial/mental/time/ethical/etc) --> boy/girl proves himself/herself worthy of girl/boy --> love triumphs, fill in the details

Hit that and you've got 90% of Harlequin Romance plots nailed down. Actually, maybe not, because most of those are female protagonist only, but the principle holds. Outside of that dismal market, it's still 75%. Add zombies, sex scenes or talking pandas, depending on target audience.

The plot's only the skeleton on which characterization, description, etc get hung. It's what's done with the plot and how well the author makes it all hang together that matters. I am happy to get modestly favourable scores; John D MacDonald sold millions of books and retired wealthy; Dickens has entire library shelves of PhD theses written about his stuff. It would be the same if all three of us (had)worked off the same plot - somewhat amusing scribbling vs solid writing vs classic literature.

It all depends on the level of detail that you borrow.

Nobody has an exclusive right to Boy Meets Girl.

But if you were to write a story with the following plot:

1. Girl moves to new town and new high school and meets boy she's attracted to, and he's a vampire.

2. He saves her life, exhibiting superhuman strength.

3. She does some sleuthing and figures out he's a vampire and tells him.

4. They fall in love.

5. He takes her home to meet the whole vampire family.

6. He has to protect her from rogue vampires, and he does.

7. Oh yeah, and other guys she knows are werewolves, and they don't like the vampires.

8. Family plays vampire baseball.

9. His family saves her from the rogue vampires.

That would be infringement, even if you changed all the names, all the dialogue and narrative, and the setting. And that's because no human on earth familiar with Twilight would deny that you ripped off the plot from Twilight. Even though it's only 8 bullet points, it's unique enough that you would be wrong to rip it off.

 

[Bramblethorn]

A threshold question to ask is how recent the story is. If the story was published in the last 100 years there's a decent chance somebody owns the copyright to it. But if it was published before, say 1900, there probably is no copyright, so copy to your heart's content.

Under US law, you're probably safe with anything published before 1923.

UK is a bit trickier, since it applies a "life + 70" rule. I saw one example of an author who was born in 1842, published a poem in 1859, and died in 1940, so her work was in copyright all the way up to the end of 2010, i.e. 151 years after publication!

USA also introduced "life + 70" from 1978 onwards, but unlike UK they didn't apply it retroactively to material published before that date. This leads to some texts being public domain in US but still under copyright in the UK.

To give an example, if you were to write a story that exactly borrowed the plot of "Twilight", but you changed the setting, characters, and dialogue, that wouldn't be right. You would still be infringing upon the copyright of the author.

If you borrow it exactly, yeah, likely to be copyright violation. There was a 1993 case which ruled that an excessively detailed summary of "Twin Peaks" episodes was a violation.

On the other hand, broad plots are unlikely to be protected. The first half of "Eragon" is basically Star Wars with dragons, and AFAIK nobody got sued over that. Nobody owns "teenage girl has unhealthy relationship with vampire boy".

 

[Handley_Page]

I was just thinking that very thing. And Shakespeare's plots have been endlessly recycled.


There's a challenge: write a proper sex scene for a great hero from fiction:

James Bond?
Captain Kirk?
Han Solo?
Jack Sparrow?

Nick and Nora Charles? (I bet they're really kinky)

Tarzan?
Thelma and Louise (together or separately)
Batman and Catwoman? (There's a lot of that but we can use more)

Or, better yet, fix a truncated sex scene. I'd love to get McGee laid. It's the least you can do for an old friend. And if books aren't your friend, your doing it wrong.

Plagiarism is an ugly word. How about "homage"?

who?

Thx everyone for the reassurance. I shall go ahead with the story, stealing the plot adapting to suit and in my own words. The original is quite a twisted little story in its own right considering it was written in the 1940s and by a female Chinese writer.

Chloe, I would suggest that, if you are not too sure, you acknowledge the basic author in a suitable Note.

To give an example, if you were to write a story that exactly borrowed the plot of "Twilight", but you changed the setting, characters, and dialogue, that wouldn't be right. You would still be infringing upon the copyright of the author. You shouldn't do that. You can use the basic idea of the plot and some of the main plot points, but you should mix it up, add some new things, and make it your own.

Doesn't that assume that the programme has been readily availably (such as on the main-stream TV schedules) and everyone has a reasonable chance of watching it ?

 

[ChloeTzang]

Chloe, I would suggest that, if you are not too sure, you acknowledge the basic author in a suitable Note.

Now that I was planning to do, HP. A 20k word story, EB, but with the added Tzangesque sex, 50k for sure. One good hot "Chinese girl loses virginity" scene is 20k by itself, but I see no way to work altars into this one. The possibility is there of course.

As far as plot goes, it's the basic story I'm looking at rather than a bullet point by bullet point adherence to the original. Some of the little nuances are great but they're also Time and place specific so it won't follow the original plot to closely and I've decided to transpose time and place as well.

 

[oggbashan]

Georgette Heyer used the same plot several times in her novels, and used almost identical characters.

What she did with those basic elements makes the stories readable.

 

[TANSTAAFL58]

Nick and Nora Charles are the protagonists in "The Thin Man" novel by Dashiell Hammett, and the movies from the 30s and 40s. They are a married couple, deeply in love and into each other, but restrained by the morality of Hollywood in the era. Nick (William Powell) is suave, witty and somewhat sarcastic. Nora (Myrna Loy) is smouldering sexuality in slinky silk gowns, and clearly the smarter of the pair.

It's a great movie. The sequel(s) are pretty good. It might havemade a good TV series. It kind of did in the form of "Hart to Hart" in the 80s. (Speaking of plagiarism/homage).

 

[SimonDoom]

Doesn't that assume that the programme has been readily availably (such as on the main-stream TV schedules) and everyone has a reasonable chance of watching it ?

Chloe's question assumed that she was directly borrowing from another work, so whether or not there was borrowing isn't an issue.

But no, it doesn't matter whether everyone has a chance of watching it. The infringer has to have access to it in some way.

 

[AwkwardMD]

There was an excitement over in the Feedback Forum a while ago where someone claimed "ownership" of a dystopian sci-fi theme. I pointed out that my paperback bookshelf had dozens of writers dabbling in that play ground, most of which were published before the writer was born.

Don't drag me into things and get the detaila wrong. Someone else copied my work and then pretended otherwise by claiming they were nothing alike. The difference between that and the stories your shelf is that the author in question read my work, but I haven't read the books you're talking about. I learned to write by reading non-fiction periodicals, not classics.

The point here is, give credit. There's no money involved in Literotica, so if you're going to copy/derive/rebrand/re-envision something then say so. Don't be shitty and pass it off as entirely your own.

 

[ElectricBlue]

but I see no way to work altars into this one. The possibility is there of course.

Now you know I'm disappointed; no altars?

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Now you know I'm disappointed; no altars?

No altars probably means no virgin sacrifices, either, right?

In three, in two, in one...

 

[ChloeTzang]

Now you know I'm disappointed; no altars?

Okay okay for you and TP I'll throw in an altar and some catholic girls school uniforms. This is definitely different.

 

[KeithD]

If you want to add dimension by inviting comparison to another treatment of the plot, it's fine to include a note. Otherwise, unless you are using large blocks of text written by another, there's no need to both indexing it.

 

[SimonDoom]

Now that I was planning to do, HP..

This can be a tricky choice to make.

On the one hand, you may feel obligated morally to give credit to a story that provided ideas for your story. That's a nice thing to do. But it's not necessary if all you're borrowing is the basic plot ideas, because chances are the author doesn't have any exclusive right over those.

The downside of giving credit if that you may tip off the author about what you've done, and the author may disagree with you and believe you've infringed the copyright. Giving credit doesn't relieve you of an infringement claim by the author, if one exists.

So, don't give credit unless you are very clear in your mind that you are not infringing anyone's copyright. If you DO think you might be infringing, ask permission. Giving credit isn't enough.

I did some sleuthing online and found a case that discussed copyright infringement of plot ideas, and the court said there was no infringement. But it also made clear that if there's enough plot similarity there could, possibly, be infringement. It's a helpful read for the basic concepts of this issue. https://www.scribd.com/doc/20700124/Court-decision-re-copyright-infringement-analysis