Plagiarism, the musical

[DDX84]

The video is freakishly long but it's enlightening. Also discouraging. Even those who do get caught, and I am betting that isn't a high percentage, don't suffer any real consequences other than the loss of their reputation on the internet, and even that only in the eyes of people who followed the whole thing. There is no incentive for anyone to not plagiarize because there is clearly no downside It is all so utterly fucked up.

This is absolutely correct.

Around a year ago, a successful author here on the forum was caught plagiarising from another writer. They were only caught because they boasted about what they'd done in some kind of extended author's note, which they posted to the forum.

If memory serves, there were only a handful of authors on the forum who challenged the theft of another writer's work. All of whom I greatly admire for the strength they demonstrated in doing so. Whether that was because there were only 4-5 people who cared, or whether it was because others were scared to speak out, is interesting. Some who lurk, like me, were horrified, but bemused as to why more published authors kept silent.

Where AwkwardlySet is 100% correct is that Literotica did nothing about it. They took no action against the theft of their contributor's work. The author who plagiarised left their stories up for approximately 3-4 weeks before they deleted them all, in the form of a tantrum, while Literotica did nothing.

Now, that author has since rejoined the website and is under no form of penalty. The author has also publicly stated that they believe that there's nothing wrong with what they did, so is free to repeat the offence.

I am betting that isn't a high percentage, don't suffer any real consequences other than the loss of their reputation on the internet, and even that only in the eyes of people who followed the whole thing.

Exactly. I think there are less than ten people who condemned it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I hope so, but I'm pessimistic. Jones' fondness for the company of significantly younger men, from a position of power, is one of Australia's worst-kept secrets; this article was published almost 20 years ago alongside a biography that discussed the issue. I hadn't previously encountered allegations of physical assault but I think many of the people who managed to ignore the previous stuff will find ways to ignore this too or claim he's been set up by his enemies.

I'll be happy if proved wrong, though!

Could be. I've always thought Jones was a Class A sized prick because of his politics, so never paid any attention, and kept away from his shock-jock radio stuff. I never even knew he liked "younger men", so there you go!

 

[ElectricBlue]

Where AwkwardlySet is 100% correct is that Literotica did nothing about it. They took no action against the theft of their contributor's work. The author who plagiarised left their stories up for approximately 3-4 weeks before they deleted them all, in the form of a tantrum, while Literotica did nothing.

Now, that author has since rejoined the website and is under no form of penalty. The author has also publicly stated that they believe that there's nothing wrong with what they did, so is free to repeat the offence.

That's not strictly true. The Mod of the Feedback Forum gave 8letters the choice: either you delete the plagiarized stories yourself, or the site will take them down. The author took them down "voluntarily", and then chucked a hissy fit, saying he was hounded out by the forum, and deleted everything else as well. He never once acknowledged any fault, and thought he was the one sinned against.

But you're right, there were quite a few loudmouths who tried to defend his actions, saying give the guy a hall pass because he writes popular content.

 

[Omenainen]

This is absolutely correct.

Around a year ago, a successful author here on the forum was caught plagiarising from another writer. They were only caught because they boasted about what they'd done in some kind of extended author's note, which they posted to the forum.

If memory serves, there were only a handful of authors on the forum who challenged the theft of another writer's work. All of whom I greatly admire for the strength they demonstrated in doing so. Whether that was because there were only 4-5 people who cared, or whether it was because others were scared to speak out, is interesting. Some who lurk, like me, were horrified, but bemused as to why more published authors kept silent.

Where AwkwardlySet is 100% correct is that Literotica did nothing about it. They took no action against the theft of their contributor's work. The author who plagiarised left their stories up for approximately 3-4 weeks before they deleted them all, in the form of a tantrum, while Literotica did nothing.

Now, that author has since rejoined the website and is under no form of penalty. The author has also publicly stated that they believe that there's nothing wrong with what they did, so is free to repeat the offence.



Exactly. I think there are less than ten people who condemned it.

“I, of course, did nothing, but I’m appalled that nobody else did.”

Yeah, that’s a real moral high ground you have there.

I personally find it awfully convenient that he pulled all his stories, in a bout of “woe is me, the meanies don’t like it when I steal their sex scenes and present them as my own”, and now he’s re-posting after “editing” them. He’s been vocal and proud of his “process”, which at least this one time included a step in which he copy-paste-harvested other people’s highly regarded works for his own benefit. Combine this with the attitude he had, openly talking about it and being all confused that people weren’t impressed with him, and… well, make what you will out of it. I know what conclusions I draw with this data.

What I found maybe even more distasteful is that he’s back as if nothing ever happened.

 

[lovecraft68]

This is absolutely correct.

Around a year ago, a successful author here on the forum was caught plagiarising from another writer. They were only caught because they boasted about what they'd done in some kind of extended author's note, which they posted to the forum.

If memory serves, there were only a handful of authors on the forum who challenged the theft of another writer's work. All of whom I greatly admire for the strength they demonstrated in doing so. Whether that was because there were only 4-5 people who cared, or whether it was because others were scared to speak out, is interesting. Some who lurk, like me, were horrified, but bemused as to why more published authors kept silent.

Where AwkwardlySet is 100% correct is that Literotica did nothing about it. They took no action against the theft of their contributor's work. The author who plagiarised left their stories up for approximately 3-4 weeks before they deleted them all, in the form of a tantrum, while Literotica did nothing.

Now, that author has since rejoined the website and is under no form of penalty. The author has also publicly stated that they believe that there's nothing wrong with what they did, so is free to repeat the offence.



Exactly. I think there are less than ten people who condemned it.

If you read through that thread you'd see where I posted that what that author did wasn't right in anyway way. However, you'll also see me say that in comparison to what I've seen done here in the past, and some of that by one of the people beating on that author with the most indignation, I felt there was a lot hypocrisy in that thread.

This is the net, and many times when someone does something wrong, the ones that jump on them aren't doing so just because it was wrong, but for "Look at me" and that applied to a couple of the people there. Again, I wouldn't do what that author did, I would never condone it, and I'd be upset if it were my story they took something from, but compared to what's going on here now? I'd rather deal with that.

Ironically, this ever growing issue with AI now has the site pretty much accusing people of plagiarism because in the end that's what letting AI write even parts of your story is, because its pulling its information from the vast sea of previously published material available on the internet.

 

[Wifetheif]

That's not strictly true. The Mod of the Feedback Forum gave 8letters the choice: either you delete the plagiarized stories yourself, or the site will take them down. The author took them down "voluntarily", and then chucked a hissy fit, saying he was hounded out by the forum, and deleted everything else as well. He never once acknowledged any fault, and thought he was the one sinned against.

But you're right, there were quite a few loudmouths who tried to defend his actions, saying give the guy a hall pass because he writes popular content.

That is one of the weirdest things about plagiarists -- try stealing their stolen stuff and they squeal like stuck pigs! They act as though the greatest offense in the history of the world has been done them through "theft" of thier "Work." Whereas most folks whose work is stolen mostly want proper citation and recognition as well as financial recompense if justified, plagiarists want to call down the wrath of God on their "offenders" It is really, really weird. They want to be hailed as geniuses for committing acts of vandalism and theft. It's worse than the getaway driver whining that he got a smaller cut of the loot from the bank robbery because he was in no danger of being shot by the guards. They are guys that steal from the bank robbers and then whine that their isn't enough cash in the bag!

 

[lovecraft68]

That is one of the weirdest things about plagiarists -- try stealing their stolen stuff and they squeal like stuck pigs! They act as though the greatest offense in the history of the world has been done them through "theft" of thier "Work." Whereas most folks whose work is stolen mostly want proper citation and recognition as well as financial recompense if justified, plagiarists want to call down the wrath of God on their "offenders" It is really, really weird. They want to be hailed as geniuses for committing acts of vandalism and theft. It's worse than the getaway driver whining that he got a smaller cut of the loot from the bank robbery because he was in no danger of being shot by the guards. They are guys that steal from the bank robbers and then whine that their isn't enough cash in the bag!

This has all been discussed in the original thread, but I think what stuck with me was that person not thinking they did anything wrong. Keep in mind they outed themselves because they saw no issue with it. Sad thing is all they had to do was give the author they lifted some lines from a nod in the disclaimer and it might have made a difference? Or maybe not.

In the past I have read stories with a fetish or act I wasn't familiar with, and taken some ideas from them, but those ideas were then written by me in my words, even if I was envision what I read(or a porn clip with that action) nothing is original when you think about it, but we do what we can to make it ours, they took something verbatim.

I suppose the fact this is a free site might make it less of a transgression then when someone takes a story from here and tries to sell it, or copying someone in the paid market. I have had that happen several times, so maybe I'm using perspective here.

 

[Wifetheif]

There are the odd ducks who simply don't understand that what they are doing is wrong. There was a case in the 1970s of a man who paraphrased a novel by another SF author. He submitted his book and it was published (Why not? It was good!). Then someone compared the novels. When confronted our offender claimed innocence. He actually thought ALL books were written that way. That we had been paraphrasing since the dawn of literature from some Ur tome! He simply did not get the concepts of "inspiration" and "originality." You can write about robots but don't make them too close to Asimov's robots. You can write about a galaxy wide federation but don't make it too close to Star Trek.
Something similar happened recently with a Dan Koontz novel. In this case it was a mother and daughter team who had simply repackaged an earlier Koontz novel to become published authors. The problem with that, of course, is that Kootz has like a gazillion fans who read similar books so the chicanery did not go undiscovered for long. Again, they thought that was how books were written. Plagiarism is a gateway drug. Once people tell you you are a "great" writer you start to believe it even if the words aren't yours.

 

[CyranoJ]

That's not strictly true. The Mod of the Feedback Forum gave 8letters the choice: either you delete the plagiarized stories yourself, or the site will take them down. The author took them down "voluntarily", and then chucked a hissy fit, saying he was hounded out by the forum, and deleted everything else as well. He never once acknowledged any fault, and thought he was the one sinned against.

I somehow missed the whole 8letters episode when it happened. Wow. At least James Somerton can say he didn't go around just straight-up telling people that plagiarism was part of his vaunted "process." That's so astonishingly goddamned stupid I can't help but laugh... and I had not previously held 8letters' intellect in the highest esteem.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Something similar happened recently with a Dan Koontz novel. In this case it was a mother and daughter team who had simply repackaged an earlier Koontz novel to become published authors. The problem with that, of course, is that Kootz has like a gazillion fans who read similar books so the chicanery did not go undiscovered for long. Again, they thought that was how books were written. Plagiarism is a gateway drug. Once people tell you you are a "great" writer you start to believe it even if the words aren't yours.

A few years back there was a romance novelist named Cristiane Serruya who got caught plagiarising from several other authors in the genre.

It was amazingly stupid because she took material from bestsellers, guaranteeing she'd be caught out (like those Dan Koontz copycats) and because of who she took it from. One of her victims was a former professor in intellectual property law who was also President of the Romance Writers of America (main US romance authors' professional association) at the time; another was one of the most famous romance novellists in the world who had already successfully sued another plagiarist. It was the Romancelandia equivalent of killing John Wick's dog.