Plagiarism, the musical

[AwkwardMD]

Over on Youtube, there is a watershed video essay about plagiarism by H.Bomberguy:

I think everyone should see it. While the specifics of the cases in question are interesting and eye-opening, I thought the most important parts were the sections that discuss the motivations, excuses, and patterns of behavior that were common to plagiarists.

Some of us have seen these same things play out here in our own back yard. Isn't it neat that it would be the same across mediums?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Over on Youtube, there is a watershed video essay about plagiarism (link pre-emptively redacted because Lit and external links aren't friends) by H.Bomberguy, and I think everyone should see it. While the specifics of the cases in question are interesting and eye-opening, I thought the most important parts were the sections that discuss the motivations, excuses, and patterns of behavior that were common to plagiarists.

Some of us have seen these same things play out here in our own back yard. Isn't it neat that it would be the same across mediums?

Lit allows external links in the forums. People post links all the time.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

The video is freakishly long but it's enlightening. Also discouraging. Even those who do get caught, and I am betting that isn't a high percentage, don't suffer any real consequences other than the loss of their reputation on the internet, and even that only in the eyes of people who followed the whole thing. There is no incentive for anyone to not plagiarize because there is clearly no downside It is all so utterly fucked up.

 

[SyleusSnow]

Yeah, Hbomberguy's piece has been causing some drama on Youtube, thankfully. Won't make much difference on Youtube when "reaction video" channels like from Ssssniperwolf are nothing but stolen content. But they bring in the bucks so they're allowed, and allowed to get away with doxxing others.

Meanwhile, LA magazine covered has an article about a popular a ghost writer who has plagiarized for years (the article is from March, but I only saw it when BoingBoing covered it this week). It seems she used plagiarism checking software not to check whether her content was stolen, but whether the stolen content was detected by the checkers once altered!

(Kinda like how authors using AI assists for writing or just naturally set off the AI detector alarms will have to use AI writing "paraphrasers" like the one offered by contentatscale.ai to get their stories accepted to Literotica)

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Don't understand why people would do that, steal other peoples work, that is.
As for the video, I thought it was unusually long but offered good insight. Perhaps a little intimidating. Pretty sure the few who get caught never get punished. Probably not very many anyway...


@AwkwardlySet Wink, wink...

 

[AwkwardlySet]

@AwkwardlySet Wink, wink...

I am so not getting the winking part

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

I am so not getting the winking part

I plagiarized the hell out of your post.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I plagiarized the hell out of your post.

LOL. I soooo didn't notice. Well done, and what a great way to make a point.

 

[DustofFallenStars]

Yeah, I watched this when it came out (thankfully a slow work day, so managed it inbetween other duties).

It put me in a bit of a quandary as a creative as I feel a lot of those same insecurities in regards to my writing (as do many of us, based on how many threads we have about ratings and comment feedback), but at the same time I often read a passage or a hook and think 'ooh, how would I do that?'.

As T. S. Eliot once said: good writers borrow, great writers steal.

But where is the line between plagiarism and inspiration? Blatant copy is obviously wrong, as is the cursory sort of cut-paste-reorder highlighted in the video, but to an extent sometimes I feel everything I do is really only aping the work of better writers whose talent I admire (see: insecurities, above); if I liked a thing and create my own version of it, but still feel derivative and unoriginal, how creative have I actually been? How transformative does your own voice need to be to make it something new and not a knock-off of someone else's work?

To an extent the line is a bit subjective, I think. There's not a simple answer that everyone would agree too, although hopefully most fall into a relatively tight consensus. But in a community including fanfic, celebs, borrowed characters and cross-inspiration, I think the only person you can really satisfy is yourself.

 

[ElectricBlue]

But where is the line between plagiarism and inspiration? Blatant copy is obviously wrong, as is the cursory sort of cut-paste-reorder highlighted in the video, but to an extent sometimes I feel everything I do is really only aping the work of better writers whose talent I admire (see: insecurities, above); if I liked a thing and create my own version of it, but still feel derivative and unoriginal, how creative have I actually been? How transformative does your own voice need to be to make it something new and not a knock-off of someone else's work?

Plagiarism is easily identified - place two blocks of text side by side, and the answer is right in front of your eyes. If the words are the same or so similar that it's obvious Text B has copied Text A, that's plagiarism.

Inspiration, homage, tribute, they're different in my mind. If the new piece is clearly "written by a different writer", where's the problem? It might be the same or a similar idea, but if the voice is yours, then it's a fresh story.

But if you feel your own version is derivative and unoriginal, then there's the answer, surely? It might not be plagiarism in its dictionary sense, but derivative becomes the key word.

It always comes back to, "Write your own story, not someone else's."

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Plagiarism is easily identified -

Not always. See my interaction with @AwkwardlySet above.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Not always. See my interaction with @AwkwardlySet above.

Haha! But that's a reflection on AwkwardlySet, for not spotting his own work!

 

[bumpercars]

James Somerton (the main plagiarist in the video) has apparently deleted his Patreon, which had been bringing him $170k a year. It might not be fair consequences but it's something.

 

[XerXesXu]

James Somerton (the main plagiarist in the video) has apparently deleted his Patreon, which had been bringing him $170k a year. It might not be fair consequences but it's something.

So, plagiarism is more profitable than creative originality. Interesting, I see what I've been doing wrong, but I'm not too old to change course.

 

[Wifetheif]

That video is well worth your time. Thank you for finding it. I've had several of my stories stolen from L.Com which is why I post here a lot less than I used to. Self publishing with Amazon doesn't solve the problem but it does make theft a bit harder. One of my stories was turned into a movie by an "amature porn star" I found out about this when he agent had the audacity to email me and ask if I would be interested in writing a sequel! At no point did he offer me either money or a screen credit. I politely turned him dowm They didn't even give me a copy of the porno in question. I had to obtain it from a "grey" source. Damn if it didn't include whole snatches of my dialogue. ALL authors dream about movie adaptations. Those dreams however come with financial renumeration and credit.

 

[bumpercars]

So, plagiarism is more profitable than creative originality. Interesting, I see what I've been doing wrong, but I'm not too old to change course.

Marketing is a separate skill from writing or research, and Somerton was good at marketing. You're fine; this is all capitalism's fault.

 

[DustofFallenStars]

I don't think it's as simple as 'does the text match', either. Where does something like Pride & Prejudice & Zombies fall? The text, side by side, is large portions identical; but the origin text is commons by reason of age, and the addition is transformative on the overall work.

Is it a plagiarism? I think 'yes, but...' - it's the kind of exception to illustrate when to break that rule ethically.

 

[bumpercars]

I don't think it's as simple as 'does the text match', either. Where does something like Pride & Prejudice & Zombies fall? The text, side by side, is large portions identical; but the origin text is commons by reason of age, and the addition is transformative on the overall work.

Is it a plagiarism? I think 'yes, but...' - it's the kind of exception to illustrate when to break that rule ethically.

I think the distinguishing characteristic of plagiarism is that someone is trying to create confusion about who the creators were or how much they did. Jane Austen gets the first author credit on the front of P&P&Z, so it's not like Grahame-Smith is concealing her contribution. Besides, we can tell which parts are hers and which are his by comparing the books.

 

[CyranoJ]

Where does something like Pride & Prejudice & Zombies fall?

In non-plagiarism. It announces the source text in the title and all of the marketing makes clear that the ultimate source is Jane Austen with additions from the more recent author. That was openly the premise.

Everything the video talks about is about stealing text without attribution, and/or with half-assed after-the-fact attempts to make it look like attribution had happened upfront when that was not the case. James Somerton, Harris' primary target, was caught dead to rights. He's not an edge case, nor is anyone else who's mentioned in the video. Somerton's open attempts to shelter behind his "co-writer" are especially scurrilous, over and above all of the plagiarism and accompanying dishonest shenanigans.

(It's especially telling just how quickly Somerton faded away when confronted by a YouTuber and Internet personality who had a bigger fanbase than he did, and couldn't be shouted down by his Patreon audience.)

 

[Bramblethorn]

James Somerton (the main plagiarist in the video) has apparently deleted his Patreon, which had been bringing him $170k a year. It might not be fair consequences but it's something.

Yep, though bad pennies have a way of coming up again. Wouldn't be surprised if a few months down the road he pops up with a token apology and goes back to business as usual, maybe being a little more careful who he steals from.

Marketing is a separate skill from writing or research, and Somerton was good at marketing. You're fine; this is all capitalism's fault.

That, and if you don't have to write your own content, so much more time left over for the marketing.

 

[CyranoJ]

Yep, though bad pennies have a way of coming up again. Wouldn't be surprised if a few months down the road he pops up with a token apology and goes back to business as usual, maybe being a little more careful who he steals from.

I suspect the accuser is too high-profile to make that possible this time out. He was able to thrive previously b/c none of his adversaries had the kind of viewership that Harris does.

 

[Bramblethorn]

It's not just a problem with new media and self-published stuff. Alan Jones was one of the most powerful voices in Australian media - talk radio, newspaper columns etc. - and was repeatedly busted for plagiarism over the years, including commentary on Middle-East politics lifted straight out of a Frederick Forsyth novel. Occasionally he'd lose a gig for it but it never made much of a dent in his career.

 

[CyranoJ]

It's not just a problem with new media and self-published stuff. Alan Jones was one of the most powerful voices in Australian media - talk radio, newspaper columns etc. - and was repeatedly busted for plagiarism over the years, including commentary on Middle-East politics lifted straight out of a Frederick Forsyth novel. Occasionally he'd lose a gig for it but it never made much of a dent in his career.

I expect if you're someone with a major media platform instead of a Patreon-supported YouTube channel, it would take a much bigger shift in the Zeitgeist to mess with your income. Jeremy Clarkson ran onto the rocks, for example, only when British society finally worked out the general misogyny inherent in his screeds against the Duchess of Sussex and decided he was no longer worth countenancing.

 

[ElectricBlue]

It's not just a problem with new media and self-published stuff. Alan Jones was one of the most powerful voices in Australian media - talk radio, newspaper columns etc. - and was repeatedly busted for plagiarism over the years, including commentary on Middle-East politics lifted straight out of a Frederick Forsyth novel. Occasionally he'd lose a gig for it but it never made much of a dent in his career.

Although yesterday's indecent assault claims may go further to dent it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Although yesterday's indecent assault claims may go further to dent it.

I hope so, but I'm pessimistic. Jones' fondness for the company of significantly younger men, from a position of power, is one of Australia's worst-kept secrets; this article was published almost 20 years ago alongside a biography that discussed the issue. I hadn't previously encountered allegations of physical assault but I think many of the people who managed to ignore the previous stuff will find ways to ignore this too or claim he's been set up by his enemies.

I'll be happy if proved wrong, though!