photos with stories?

[Silverslacker70]

I would like to submit something which includes photos found on the web. Copyright issues would seem to me to be slight but I don't see it done. Is there any reason why not? And if not, what would be the best way to submit - make a Wordpress page?

 

[SimonDoom]

I would like to submit something which includes photos found on the web. Copyright issues would seem to me to be slight but I don't see it done. Is there any reason why not? And if not, what would be the best way to submit - make a Wordpress page?

You cannot assume copyright issues would be slight. You cannot publish photos on this site unless you have the legal right to do so.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I would like to submit something which includes photos found on the web. Copyright issues would seem to me to be slight

How do you figure that?

 

[ElectricBlue]

I would like to submit something which includes photos found on the web. Copyright issues would seem to me to be slight but I don't see it done. Is there any reason why not? And if not, what would be the best way to submit - make a Wordpress page?

It's not possible unless you own the copyright on the photos. The site is clear about that in its content policies:

https://www.literotica.com/faq/11022303.shtml

 

[Silverslacker70]

re copyright

Lots of porn models have complete films and photosets nicked all the time. It's not fair but it's clearly impossible to stop. Use of the odd sample photo, with attribution, could be defended as fair review and most of the copyright holders would be perfectly happy with it.

 

[HappySpouse]

Lots of porn models have complete films and photosets nicked all the time. It's not fair but it's clearly impossible to stop. Use of the odd sample photo, with attribution, could be defended as fair review and most of the copyright holders would be perfectly happy with it.

Your right that it could be done with in a way that could be defended as fair use in court. What people are telling you is that it will not make it through the process of being published on Literotica.

There are plenty of kinky people on the site. I bet with a post in the right area you could find someone willing to take custom photos that fit your story. It's happened before.

 

[SimonDoom]

Lots of porn models have complete films and photosets nicked all the time. It's not fair but it's clearly impossible to stop. Use of the odd sample photo, with attribution, could be defended as fair review and most of the copyright holders would be perfectly happy with it.

No it couldn't. There's no court in the US that would call that "fair use." It doesn't qualify in any sense as a fair use.

As a legal matter, it's not fair use just because a) it's not a big deal and nobody is going to complain and b) you're not making money off it. That doesn't make it a fair use. This most definitely is NOT a fair use.

Which is not to say you won't get away with it or that if you do it no one will complain. It's very possible nobody would complain. But if they did complain, and were willing to hire a lawyer and spend money and go to court, they would beat you.

 

[KeithD]

Your right that it could be done with in a way that could be defended as fair use in court.

Fair use is for school courses copying and library use, not for porn on the Internet. Good luck with fair use on this in court.

 

[Salacious_Scribe]

Fair use is for school courses copying and library use, not for porn on the Internet. Good luck with fair use on this in court.

Fair Use is not limited to Schools or Libraries. Anyone can claim Fair use, it's up to the court to determine the facts and decide. IF I have a Blog that reviews movies and TV shows, I can post clips and images of those works. I would not be allowed to post entire movies or episodes.

Fair use specifically states that it's purpose is too promote freedom of expression which means Porn can not be excluded.

US Copyright Office Fair Use

Fair use is a legal doctrine that promotes freedom of expression by permitting the unlicensed use of copyright-protected works in certain circumstances. Section 107 of the Copyright Act provides the statutory framework for determining whether something is a fair use and identifies certain types of uses—such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research—as examples of activities that may qualify as fair use. Section 107 calls for consideration of the following four factors in evaluating a question of fair use:

1- Purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes: Courts look at how the party claiming fair use is using the copyrighted work, and are more likely to find that nonprofit educational and noncommercial uses are fair. This does not mean, however, that all nonprofit education and noncommercial uses are fair and all commercial uses are not fair; instead, courts will balance the purpose and character of the use against the other factors below. Additionally, “transformative” uses are more likely to be considered fair. Transformative uses are those that add something new, with a further purpose or different character, and do not substitute for the original use of the work.

2- Nature of the copyrighted work: This factor analyzes the degree to which the work that was used relates to copyright’s purpose of encouraging creative expression. Thus, using a more creative or imaginative work (such as a novel, movie, or song) is less likely to support a claim of a fair use than using a factual work (such as a technical article or news item). In addition, use of an unpublished work is less likely to be considered fair.

3- Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole: Under this factor, courts look at both the quantity and quality of the copyrighted material that was used. If the use includes a large portion of the copyrighted work, fair use is less likely to be found; if the use employs only a small amount of copyrighted material, fair use is more likely. That said, some courts have found use of an entire work to be fair under certain circumstances. And in other contexts, using even a small amount of a copyrighted work was determined not to be fair because the selection was an important part—or the “heart”—of the work.

4- Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work: Here, courts review whether, and to what extent, the unlicensed use harms the existing or future market for the copyright owner’s original work. In assessing this factor, courts consider whether the use is hurting the current market for the original work (for example, by displacing sales of the original) and/or whether the use could cause substantial harm if it were to become widespread.

 

[TxRad]

There is no fair use in a court at Lit. Laurel is her own court and if you don't have the copyright, it does not get published. End of discussion as far as she is concerned. Her site, her law.

 

[SimonDoom]

Fair Use is not limited to Schools or Libraries. Anyone can claim Fair use, it's up to the court to determine the facts and decide. IF I have a Blog that reviews movies and TV shows, I can post clips and images of those works. I would not be allowed to post entire movies or episodes.

Fair use specifically states that it's purpose is too promote freedom of expression which means Porn can not be excluded.

US Copyright Office Fair Use

Fair use is a legal doctrine that promotes freedom of expression by permitting the unlicensed use of copyright-protected works in certain circumstances. Section 107 of the Copyright Act provides the statutory framework for determining whether something is a fair use and identifies certain types of uses—such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research—as examples of activities that may qualify as fair use. Section 107 calls for consideration of the following four factors in evaluating a question of fair use:

1- Purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes: Courts look at how the party claiming fair use is using the copyrighted work, and are more likely to find that nonprofit educational and noncommercial uses are fair. This does not mean, however, that all nonprofit education and noncommercial uses are fair and all commercial uses are not fair; instead, courts will balance the purpose and character of the use against the other factors below. Additionally, “transformative” uses are more likely to be considered fair. Transformative uses are those that add something new, with a further purpose or different character, and do not substitute for the original use of the work.

2- Nature of the copyrighted work: This factor analyzes the degree to which the work that was used relates to copyright’s purpose of encouraging creative expression. Thus, using a more creative or imaginative work (such as a novel, movie, or song) is less likely to support a claim of a fair use than using a factual work (such as a technical article or news item). In addition, use of an unpublished work is less likely to be considered fair.

3- Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole: Under this factor, courts look at both the quantity and quality of the copyrighted material that was used. If the use includes a large portion of the copyrighted work, fair use is less likely to be found; if the use employs only a small amount of copyrighted material, fair use is more likely. That said, some courts have found use of an entire work to be fair under certain circumstances. And in other contexts, using even a small amount of a copyrighted work was determined not to be fair because the selection was an important part—or the “heart”—of the work.

4- Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work: Here, courts review whether, and to what extent, the unlicensed use harms the existing or future market for the copyright owner’s original work. In assessing this factor, courts consider whether the use is hurting the current market for the original work (for example, by displacing sales of the original) and/or whether the use could cause substantial harm if it were to become widespread.

This would mean, for instance, that if you had a blog that reviewed porn videos, you might be on OK ground if you posted a low resolution still photo from the video along with your review. In that case you would be using it for criticism purposes, you would be using only a small portion of the whole work reviewed, and your use would have no negative impact on the copyright owner.

This is not at all like somebody ripping off a copyrighted photo from the Internet and putting it in their story. You're ripping somebody off for your own creative work. You are using the entire copyrighted work -- the photo. It's not commentary. There's no decent argument that it's fair use.

People do this sort of thing all the time and they get away with it all the time, but they shouldn't convince themselves that the law allows it.

 

[Salacious_Scribe]

This would mean, for instance, that if you had a blog that reviewed porn videos, you might be on OK ground if you posted a low resolution still photo from the video along with your review. In that case you would be using it for criticism purposes, you would be using only a small portion of the whole work reviewed, and your use would have no negative impact on the copyright owner.

This is not at all like somebody ripping off a copyrighted photo from the Internet and putting it in their story. You're ripping somebody off for your own creative work. You are using the entire copyrighted work -- the photo. It's not commentary. There's no decent argument that it's fair use.

People do this sort of thing all the time and they get away with it all the time, but they shouldn't convince themselves that the law allows it.

Where did I say that using a photo in a story was okay?

I was directly responding to KeithD about his comment on fair use.

 

[KeithD]

Fair Use is not limited to Schools or Libraries. Anyone can claim Fair use, it's up to the court to determine the facts and decide. IF I have a Blog that reviews movies and TV shows, I can post clips and images of those works. I would not be allowed to post entire movies or episodes.

Fair use specifically states that it's purpose is too promote freedom of expression which means Porn can not be excluded.

US Copyright Office Fair Use

Fair use is a legal doctrine that promotes freedom of expression by permitting the unlicensed use of copyright-protected works in certain circumstances. Section 107 of the Copyright Act provides the statutory framework for determining whether something is a fair use and identifies certain types of uses—such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research—as examples of activities that may qualify as fair use. Section 107 calls for consideration of the following four factors in evaluating a question of fair use:

1- Purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes: Courts look at how the party claiming fair use is using the copyrighted work, and are more likely to find that nonprofit educational and noncommercial uses are fair. This does not mean, however, that all nonprofit education and noncommercial uses are fair and all commercial uses are not fair; instead, courts will balance the purpose and character of the use against the other factors below. Additionally, “transformative” uses are more likely to be considered fair. Transformative uses are those that add something new, with a further purpose or different character, and do not substitute for the original use of the work.

2- Nature of the copyrighted work: This factor analyzes the degree to which the work that was used relates to copyright’s purpose of encouraging creative expression. Thus, using a more creative or imaginative work (such as a novel, movie, or song) is less likely to support a claim of a fair use than using a factual work (such as a technical article or news item). In addition, use of an unpublished work is less likely to be considered fair.

3- Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole: Under this factor, courts look at both the quantity and quality of the copyrighted material that was used. If the use includes a large portion of the copyrighted work, fair use is less likely to be found; if the use employs only a small amount of copyrighted material, fair use is more likely. That said, some courts have found use of an entire work to be fair under certain circumstances. And in other contexts, using even a small amount of a copyrighted work was determined not to be fair because the selection was an important part—or the “heart”—of the work.

4- Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work: Here, courts review whether, and to what extent, the unlicensed use harms the existing or future market for the copyright owner’s original work. In assessing this factor, courts consider whether the use is hurting the current market for the original work (for example, by displacing sales of the original) and/or whether the use could cause substantial harm if it were to become widespread.

Cite an example of free-use porn being accepted as fair use by U.S. courts. Apply a little reality to this.

 

[lovecraft68]

This would mean, for instance, that if you had a blog that reviewed porn videos, you might be on OK ground if you posted a low resolution still photo from the video along with your review. In that case you would be using it for criticism purposes, you would be using only a small portion of the whole work reviewed, and your use would have no negative impact on the copyright owner.

This is not at all like somebody ripping off a copyrighted photo from the Internet and putting it in their story. You're ripping somebody off for your own creative work. You are using the entire copyrighted work -- the photo. It's not commentary. There's no decent argument that it's fair use.

People do this sort of thing all the time and they get away with it all the time, but they shouldn't convince themselves that the law allows it.

What also factors in is the blog making any money? Most likely not. The blogger might have some patreon supporters who donate monthly, but that's not a direct income related to the picture, at that point, its advertising.

No different than being able to use a couple of lines of lyrics from a song.

 

[Handley_Page]

There is no fair use in a court at Lit. Laurel is her own court and if you don't have the copyright, it does not get published. End of discussion as far as she is concerned. Her site, her law.

Well put !

 

[lovecraft68]

There is no fair use in a court at Lit. Laurel is her own court and if you don't have the copyright, it does not get published. End of discussion as far as she is concerned. Her site, her law.

Then someone better point her to every porn pic thread on this site, especially in the fetish forum and amp pic thread where many of the pics are obviously of every day women who have no idea their BF or whoever else is posting them all over the net.

For that matter, as Keith always points out, most avatars here should be removed.

Until that's cracked down on, please stop doing the 'end of discussion' routine like you're the site bouncer.

If the rules here-any of them-were actually enforced even in a small or slightly consistent way these conversations would stop coming up.

Its Laurel's site, not yours, and she'll enforce-or not enforce-whatever she chooses to. Not what you say she will.

Revenge porn and picture copy right/fair use is obviously not a concern here and never has been. At least not on the boards so why should an author think a story would be any different? Its not going to be seen as different if any type of fed or LE enforcement comes here.

If that ever happens, her site her rules is out the window at least on this topic, story rules don't matter, those are site preference, something like this is law and she's not going to be able to say 10's of thousands of pictures 'slipped through'

 

[SimonDoom]

What also factors in is the blog making any money? Most likely not. The blogger might have some patreon supporters who donate monthly, but that's not a direct income related to the picture, at that point, its advertising.

No different than being able to use a couple of lines of lyrics from a song.

The difference with using a couple of song lyrics is that the whole photo is being used. It's not just a part of it. If you use just a part of a photo, that might be different. If you used a very low resolution version of the photo, that might be different. But if you use an entire photo and put it in your story, there's no way that's fair use.

 

[Salacious_Scribe]

Cite an example of free-use porn being accepted as fair use by U.S. courts. Apply a little reality to this.

That proves the case. If there is no law specifically disallowing it and no legal precedent it is NOT illegal.

 

[KeithD]

That proves the case. If there is no law specifically disallowing it and no legal precedent it is NOT illegal.

Do as you please, and find out what you find out. There's no end of self-declared experts on the Internet and I'm tired to suggesting that people who write and thus are interested in protecting their own property should think twice about stealing someone else's convincing themselves that law let's them do it.

 

[Salacious_Scribe]

Do as you please, and find out what you find out. There's no end of self-declared experts on the Internet and I'm tired to suggesting that people who write and thus are interested in protecting their own property should think twice about stealing someone else's convincing themselves that law let's them do it.

Nowhere did I suggest anyone do anything. I was disagreeing with your statement that Fair use only applies to schools and libraries. That is flat out wrong.

I did not make any comment about stealing anything from anyone or the legality of doing so.

Nor did I say I was an expert. I went to the Copyright Office who IS the expert on Copyright Law.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Lots of porn models have complete films and photosets nicked all the time. It's not fair but it's clearly impossible to stop. Use of the odd sample photo, with attribution, could be defended as fair review and most of the copyright holders would be perfectly happy with it.

(a) citation needed;
(b) even if 99% of the rights holders were happy or apathetic, getting sued by the other 1% isn't appealing
(c) using somebody else's photos to illustrate a story does not make it "review"

It might be possible to argue fair use for a review/essay that genuinely was commentary. For instance, in the "female gaze" thread, people including myself have been posting artwork, some of which is still in copyright, as part of a discussion about artistic issues. That's the kind of thing fair use can protect.

But Laurel isn't obliged to take that chance.

(also, pay for your porn, don't be a cheapskate - models and actors need to eat)

As a legal matter, it's not fair use just because a) it's not a big deal and nobody is going to complain and b) you're not making money off it. That doesn't make it a fair use. This most definitely is NOT a fair use.

For clarification, the profit/non-profit dimension can affect a determination of fair use when taken in combination with the other three pillars of fair use, but on its own "I'm not making money from this" is not carte blanche.

Then someone better point her to every porn pic thread on this site, especially in the fetish forum and amp pic thread where many of the pics are obviously of every day women who have no idea their BF or whoever else is posting them all over the net.

I agree that kind of revenge-porn stuff shouldn't be here in any form, but it's orthogonal to the fair use issue discussion.

Important consideration here is that the photos in porn pic threads here generally aren't hosted by Literotica, they're hotlinked from other sites. I've seen mods edit posts and even shut down threads entirely when people started uploading porn pictures to be hosted here.

That's primarily about 2257 compliance (sites not allowed to host explicit photos/videos without keeping documentation to prove the models are over 18) but it also has copyright implications. If I understand correctly, hotlinking to an image hosted by some other business is not legally the same as making a copy to store on Literotica's servers.

Hotlinking from stories might resolve the copyright issue, but it's a bad idea for other reasons - after a couple of years many of those images would be broken or even replaced with spam.

Avatars are hosted here and many of those probably are copyright violations (I specifically asked permission from the owners for the one I use), and in some cases 2257 violations as well. The site owners seem to have decided not to enforce policy as stringently there as on the story side, but that doesn't mean they should be equally lax on the story side.

 

[KeithD]

Nowhere did I suggest anyone do anything. I was disagreeing with your statement that Fair use only applies to schools and libraries. That is flat out wrong.

I did not make any comment about stealing anything from anyone or the legality of doing so.

Nor did I say I was an expert. I went to the Copyright Office who IS the expert on Copyright Law.

I'm not conceding that this would be fair use. It isn't. I'm just not going to discuss "I can steal someone else's work and reuse it because I can" discussion.

 

[Silverslacker70]

thanks

Thanks all for your interest in this one.
I would like to make clear that I do pay a little for my own porn by the way. And I hate to see the ladies I love ripped off.
However, still seems possible to me that fair and legal arrangements might be made for use of photos and/or graphics and it would perk up the site to have that sort of mixed media presentation.

 

[Rustyoznail]

Ok, so let's restate your question, with an assumption.

You have photos or other artwork for which you own the copyright, and would like to have them included as part of your story.

I don't believe that's possible. You could include a link to the image, but not have the actual image embedded into the document.

Happy to be proven wrong...

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'm not sure I understand you correctly, but in Illustrated Erotic Fiction it is possible to include artwork as part of a story. And the same for Illustrated Poetry.

Does that allow photos? Owned artwork I know about, but I don't know about photos.