Philosophical rambles

[ABSTRUSE]

"It cannot come to pass that the fruit of a deed well-done by the body, speech, and thought should have for a result that which is unpleasant, hateful, or distasteful. But that it should be otherwise is quite possible."

The Anguttara, a Pali text.

 

[Prospector 101]

Re: Re: book quote

That's in the small stack of audio books I'm saving for use on long car trips.

You've made me think of a book that I don't recommend to very many people. It's dark; funny but dark, in fact one of the reviews on the book jacket says "you'll grip this book so tight your hands will hurt."

Some people limit themselves to light entertainment when they're feeling down. Others take comfort from seeing their darkness expressed in their experience of others. If you're one of them, the book is "The Unconsoled" by Kazuo Ishiguro who wrote "Remains of the Day."

(Also a great "get me when I'm down" book. )

I picked up The Unconsoled a few years ago at the lowest point of my life, because I'd enjoyed Remains of the Day so much. From about two pages in, I was glued to it, in absolute awe and gratitude that another human being had felt things in exactly the same way, that I thought were mine alone. There are also some moments of LOL absurdity that come at the right moments. If you're interested, here it is.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0679735879/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-6994762-0886515#reader-link

Thanks for the recommendations, shereads. I'll put these two in my stack for summer of '95. I read so slowly it may have to be '96 for that matter.
By the way, has anyone here used e-book readers? Franklin makes one, and there are some others on the market I believe. Websites like Gutenberg have some great downloadable titles if you like older stuff. But reading them on my computer isn't very relaxing. Just wondering how satisfactory the e-readers are.

 

[shereads]

Re: Re: Re: book quote

Thanks for the recommendations, shereads. I'll put these two in my stack for summer of '95. I read so slowly it may have to be '96 for that matter.
By the way, has anyone here used e-book readers? Franklin makes one, and there are some others on the market I believe. Websites like Gutenberg have some great downloadable titles if you like older stuff. But reading them on my computer isn't very relaxing. Just wondering how satisfactory the e-readers are.

I haven't. I also don't find reading off a computer screen very relaxing, and I'm surprised when I realize how much I'm beginning to substitute it for "hands-on" reading. I still read the newspaper on the weekends, but during the week I read Washington Post online and even my local newspaper's highlights on line. It's an experience comparable to tuning in the traffic report; nothing relaxing about it.

If I could have all all the stories by my favorite Lit authors in paperback form, as bound books not a stack of pages i've printed from a download, I'd be in heaven. There's nothing quite like a bubble bath, a Lavendar-Leaf scented candle, and a paperback book that doesn't mind getting splashed.

 

[shereads]

Re: Re: Re: book quote

I'll put these two in my stack for summer of '95. I read so slowly it may have to be '96 for that matter.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Re: Re: Re: Re: book quote

If I could have all all the stories by my favorite Lit authors in paperback form, as bound books not a stack of pages i've printed from a download, I'd be in heaven. There's nothing quite like a bubble bath, a Lavendar-Leaf scented candle, and a paperback book that doesn't mind getting splashed.

I can relate to that.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

"It doesn't make any sense."

"Tell me about the dream then."

"Okay. I'm working as a sales girl in an upscale store. There is a dress on display, the most perfect dress for me, the one I've always wanted and dreamed about."

"Go on."

"It's very expensive. I know that no matter how long I work or how hard I save, I can never have this dress.
Everyday, women come in and touch it, admire it and try it on, I'm the one who takes care of it. I hang it up, and make sure it looks perfect, but that's the extent of it, I am it's caretaker only."

"Describe the dress to me."

"It's not really glamourous, straight lines, very elegant. The material is soft, a black silk lined velvet dressed, perfectly tailored for me. It doesn't need any decoration because it stands by itself, very classic looking."

"I see. Continue please."

" I know someday, someone else will come in and buy my dress, someone else will feel it against their skin, someone else will wear it to wonderful places. I imagine seeing it everywhere I want to be with it and know that it's not mine anymore. I wake up feeling lost."

"Tell me how the dress makes you feel when you wear it."

" It makes me feel like the most beautiful, most loved woman in the world."

"So why do you think there is never a chance for you to have this dress?"

"Because I'm not destined to have it."

"And how do you know that? Don't you think you have the power to change that?"

"No, I don't. You can't change destiny. What does this have to do with anything?"

"The dress is a manifestation for what you desire in your life. The chance for happiness, the want for acceptance and love."

"So what does that mean?"

"It means you're human."

 

[Prospector 101]

BACK TO THE FUTURE

Shereads - You must think I'm crazier than I am.
When I wrote 'summer of '95' I meant '05. It only feels like a time warp. I'm not really living in the past.

 

[cantdog]

You made that up, didn't you?

Nope, it's a technical term, like poltergeist. They don't speak, they just (almost) appear. But they could speak in a story.

"What senses do we lack, that we do not perceive the other world all around us?"

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Have you ever given thought to your ability as a writer to create a world and the people who live in it. They only exist in your mind and on a few pages of cyber paper.

To me, they are real. They live in my perfect world that I created for them, they can act out my fantasies and conquer my fears. They can be my hero, my victim, my goodness or my evil.

I have created a life.
I gave them hair color, eye color, a voice, a heart and a soul.
I gave them a home, a lover or two.
I gave them the ability to live on in my mind and the mind of my readers.

I can punish them or reward them with a few well placed words.

Almost godlike sometimes, isn't it?

My ramble.

 

[cantdog]

Nothing corrupts a man so deeply as writing a book. The myriad temptations are overwhelming. --Nero Wolfe

I didn't know what he meant til I took up fiction. It's almost my only real vice, abs.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Nothing corrupts a man so deeply as writing a book. The myriad temptations are overwhelming. --Nero Wolfe

I didn't know what he meant til I took up fiction. It's almost my only real vice, abs.

It's a pleasant vice I should think.

I'm just amazed to think these people live somewhere inside of us and we take them for granted sometimes.
I'm taking my characters out for icecream someday, I just hope they behave.

 

[Prospector 101]

I watched the movie Secret Window a few nights ago. A case of the character taking over the writer. So make sure you stay in control!

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I watched the movie Secret Window a few nights ago. A case of the character taking over the writer. So make sure you stay in control!

Is that the one with Johnny Depp?

 

[Prospector 101]

That's the one. Johnny doing his Psycho impression. A menage a trois would have saved a lot of trouble, but then there would have been no story and no movie.
Maybe someone should rewrite it with a different ending

 

[ABSTRUSE]

That's the one. Johnny doing his Psycho impression. A menage a trois would have saved a lot of trouble, but then there would have been no story and no movie.
Maybe someone should rewrite it with a different ending

Not worth the watch then?

 

[Guest]

Not worth the watch then?

I loved it, Abby. Depp was great, the other cast too. Nothing brilliant in all but the psych and creepiness aspect was terrifically done. I'd watch it again some day, certainly worth renting and a bowl of popcorn. P.

 

[Prospector 101]

Oh no. Quite entertaining. And as my female companion intimated, Depp would be worth watching if there were no script and no sound. But the storyline is a bit thin for a movie. Maybe King's short story worked better. I haven't read it.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I loved it, Abs. Depp was great, the other cast too. Nothing brilliant in all but the psych and creepiness aspect was brilliantly done. I'd watch it again some day, certainly worth renting and a bowl of popcorn. P.

thanks P, I love Johnny Depp and what ever he is in. I'll have to check it out.

 

[Prospector 101]

I loved it, Abby. Depp was great, the other cast too. Nothing brilliant in all but the psych and creepiness aspect was terrifically done. I'd watch it again some day, certainly worth renting and a bowl of popcorn. P.

I'd endorse that.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I was bored and looking at all the stupid threads I had started but this one seemed to be somewhat fun so I thought I would re-animate it and see if anyone needs to ramble on Art, beauty, thoughts....

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I'll ramble.

Has anyone noticed a change in people lately, I mean in as far as more people setting out on journeys to find a more spiritual side of themselves. Its kind of heterodoxical.
I find that even though I grew up in the folds and teachings of organized religion I found it....void of something. I needed to question things, seek them out and challenge what was hammered into me.
I found both joy and sorrow on this journey but I feel more enlightened. The most frightening place to go to was the journey inside myself but the knowledge I gained was worth the trip. Baring your soul to others is not half as difficult as it is baring it to yourself.

 

[CharleyH]

I originally posted this in Abstrusion's, I was wondering if anyone else had a similar experince while looking at a work of Art or something in nature?

~A~

Every time I look at art - fine, archelogical, film or writing - modern or old, I wonder these things, and am at times AMAZED, so its no ramble, Abs. I need to think more about the greatest work of art, but as a gal with Egyptian tatoos, I can say I enjoy your take.

Great thread! Lets get it on track.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Every time I look at art - fine, archelogical, film or writing - modern or old, I wonder these things, and am at times AMAZED, so its no ramble, Abs. I need to think more about the greatest work of art, but as a gal with Egyptian tatoos, I can say I enjoy your take.

Great thread! Lets get it on track.

Fabulous. When we study art we study who we are. When we look into the reasons behind why the artist produced these works we see religion, culture, philosophy and yet we are left with a feeling of awe. What ever the medium, stone, clay, canvas, film, we learn, we think and we feel.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Hey, Abs - I just read your original post on this thread and found it touching and beautiful.

Regarding spiritual stuff, I heard something on C-Span that got me thinking about this sort of thing. I've posted this before, and do so again here below. Nirvana said something one time that made me think she may be knowledgable about this sort of thing. I have not acted on it yet, but am interested in learning more.

I have no patience for mystical mumbo-jumbo that often gets associated with these things, but think that association is unnecessary. Here my earlier post, which are my notes from the Harris speech. I apologize for their fragmentary nature. During recent painful events I have found myself thinking a lot about this.

There is something beyond the search for pleasure, or avoiding pain. It is consciousness itself. This transcends its content. Meditation is turning consciousness upon itself – what does it "feel" like. The thing that is aware of your experience transcends its content. That thing is not improved by joy or sorrow.

Meditation reveals that consciousness doesn't feel like a self, or an "I." It feels like we are experiencing something, but are not identical to that experience.

Awareness of this can improve one's well being, and make one a better person, because our brains are really quite plastic, they are "instruments" that can be changed by what is played on them. We should do more to understand the plasticity of human experience.

Analogy – the "blind spot" that exists in our vision as a result of the mechanics of our eyeballs. We aren't aware of it, but if you pay attention you can be made to notice it. Insight into the nature of consciousness is almost just as "on the surface" as that – it's there if you just pay attention to it.

Consciousness – that in you that is aware of your experience – is not the same as that experience, and does not feel like "I." Awareness of this increases one's well being.

We should do more to understand the plasticity of human experience. This point of view is open to inquiry, and our western religious traditions are impoverished in this regard and even with regard to the definition of sanity, while some of the eastern ones are much less so. (Buddhism has discovered that there is an alternative to being "lost in thought" every minute of the day, he says.)

We need a contemplative science unconstrained by religious dogma. The fact of death is astonishing – if it is possible to be deeply happy in the knowledge that you and everyone you ever know will die, we need to understand this!

Oh dear, I just realized that in trimming this down I left out the citation. The above quote is my notes on a speech given by Sam Harris about his book "The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason."

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

At the risk of injecting a whiff of politics into your thughtful thread, here is an interesting article about modern art, "Why Art Turned Ugly," by Dr. Stephen Hicks.

. . . the modern and postmodern art world was and is nested within a broader cultural framework generated in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Despite occasional invocations of "Art for art's sake" and attempts to withdraw from life, art has always been significant, probing the same issues about the human condition that all forms of cultural life probe. Artists are thinking and feeling human beings, and they think and feel intensely about the same important things that all intelligent and passionate humans do. Even when some artists claim that their work has no significance or reference or meaning, those claims are always significant, referential, and meaningful claims. What counts as a significant cultural claim, however, depends on what is going on in the broader intellectual and cultural framework. The world of art is not hermetically sealed—its themes can have an internal developmental logic, but those themes are almost never generated from within the world of art.

. . . The big break with the past occurred toward the end of the nineteenth century. Until the end of the nineteenth century, art was a vehicle of sensuousness, meaning, and passion. Its goals were beauty and originality. The artist was a skilled master of his craft. Such masters were able to create original representations with human significance and universal appeal. Combining skill and vision, artists were exalted beings capable of creating objects that in turn had an awesome power to exalt the senses, the intellects, and the passions of those who experience them.

The break with that tradition came when the first modernists of the late 1800s set themselves systematically to the project of isolating all the elements of art and eliminating them or flying in the face of them.

The causes of the break were many. The increasing naturalism of the nineteenth century led, for those who had not shaken off their religious heritage, to feeling desperately alone and without guidance in a vast, empty universe. The rise of philosophical theories of skepticism and irrationalism led many to distrust their cognitive faculties of perception and reason. The development of scientific theories of evolution and entropy brought with them pessimistic accounts of human nature and the destiny of the world. The spread of liberalism and free markets caused their opponents on the political Left, many of whom were members of the artistic avant garde, to see political developments as a series of deep disappointments. And the technological revolutions spurred by the combination of science and capitalism led many to project a future in which mankind would be dehumanized or destroyed by the very machines that were supposed to improve its lot.

By the beginning of the twentieth century, the nineteenth-century intellectual world's sense of disquiet had become a full-blown anxiety. The artists responded, exploring in their works the implications of a world in which reason, dignity, optimism, and beauty seemed to have disappeared . . .