Perhaps Someone Could Explain To Me

[R. Richard]

Perhaps someone could explain to me why burning such criminals at the stake is illegal. TIA.

Ore. Man Accused of Arranging Group Sex Assaults

NEWBERG, Ore. -- An Oregon man is accused of sex crimes involving two teenagers and a 4-year-old girl, and police say he used the Internet to line up people to have a group sex with one of the victims.

Darrin Vaughn Daily, 44, of Newberg, faces numerous charges and is being held on $1 million bail in the Yamhill County Jail.

Sgt. Tim Weaver of the Newberg-Dundee Police Department said investigators searched Daily's apartment and seized evidence after a 15-year-old disclosed last month that Daily had sex with her after providing marijuana and alcohol.

Investigators soon learned that another girl, 14, accused Daily of sexually abusing her and photographing it. The girl told them Daily had at times tied her up and forced her into group sex with the men he solicited on the Web site Craigslist.

The girl also told police Daily photographed her having sex with his dog.

Weaver said detectives who analyzed Weaver's computer found images of the girl having sex with adults and the dog. Images of a 4-year-old girl being sexually abused were also found.

Weaver told The Oregonian newspaper he had never seen such a case in more than three decades as a police officer.

"This is certainly at the top of the list of hideous crimes," he said

Police were able to find the 4-year-old, and she told investigators that Daily sexually abused her. She is being cared for at a child abuse assessment center, according to a police statement.

The three men accused of responding to the Craigslist ad and taking part in the sex abuse are Patricio Moreno, 43, of Forest Grove; Robert D. Thompson, 34, of Portland; and David Garcia, 41, of McMinnville. They also were jailed in Yamhill County, although Garcia posted bail.

Police also seek a woman accused of sexually abusing one of the girls.

Daily is accused of rape, sodomy, sex abuse, sexual assault of an animal, delivery of marijuana to a minor, online sexual corruption of a child, endangering the welfare of a minor and using a child in a display of sexually explicit conduct.

Thompson, Garcia and Moreno are all charged with sex abuse and third-degree rape. Thompson faced an additional charge of using a child in a display of sexually explicit conduct, while Moreno is accused of sodomy.

 

[sr71plt]

air pollution bans?

 

[Dragonlipz]

Since when?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I agree with SR71plt, It's the greasy smoke. That stuff is not good for the lungs of the community.

 

[R. Richard]

I agree with SR71plt, It's the greasy smoke. That stuff is not good for the lungs of the community.

OK, the smoke is a bit of a problem, but think of the other benefits to the community!

 

[Dragonlipz]

Hey All:

Many years ago I was aghast at the molestation of a child at the hands of a person who should have been incarcerated.....
Pop (my dad) schooled me on this one:

"Years ago when the godfather ran this neighborhood, his boys would have caught up with this guy and offered the family of the little girl first crack at him......Whatever was left would have been found in the river the next day......"

 

[voluptuary_manque]

"I don' wan' yez should take dis poisonally, fella, but th'neighbahs don' tink yez should be here tommorah. So yez won' be!"

Not that I would want anyone to think I have relatives in the construction business in Las Vegas or anything . . . or that they use large quantities of concrete . . .

 

[Boxlicker101]

To answer your question, people are not burned at the stake because of Constitutional bans on cruel and unusual punishments. Perhaps the best way to deal with somebody like this guy would be to make sure everybody knew what he did and that he was going to be released at a certain time and a certain place. Then cut him loose and have the cops turn their backs on the scene while the people deal with him.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Aren't we all just a vicious pack of vigilantes.
Falling over each other to proclaim our bloodthirsty desire for torturous revenge. "He should be burned!"
"No, he should be released to a lynch mob!"
"No, put him in a prison where the other animals will devour him!"
"Cut off his penis!"
"Cut off his penis and put acid on the wound!"
"Yeah, then make him eat his penis!"
"Great! Then let's gang-rape his ass!"
"No, just let those prison animals rape his ass! You know that's all they do!"
"Yeah, those people are all sub-humans!"

It's 2009. It's possible to try and convict horrible criminals without behaving like a pack of jackals.

 

[Handley_Page]

To answer your question, people are not burned at the stake because of Constitutional bans on cruel and unusual punishments. Perhaps the best way to deal with somebody like this guy would be to make sure everybody knew what he did and that he was going to be released at a certain time and a certain place. Then cut him loose and have the cops turn their backs on the scene while the people deal with him.

Burning at the Stake is hardly "unusual" (in historical terms).
Cruel, yes;
but there are some crimes for which there can be no forgiveness and involving kids is one of them, IMO.

I hope they catch the " woman accused of sexually abusing one of the girls."

 

[Boota]

"Yeah, those people are all sub-humans!"

It's 2009. It's possible to try and convict horrible criminals without behaving like a pack of jackals.

They are sub-humans and need to be removed, but there doesn't need to be joy in it. No torture, no taunting. Just a little prick from a needle. However, if the families of the victims get a hold of him all bets are off and whatever they do is perfectly okay with me. If I were on a jury that had to try a parent for enacting revenge I would not convict. Ever.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Jesus Christ! Everyone over 13 should be fair game as theyre screwing the whole planet anyway.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Cruel compared to what? His crimes? Other crimes? A bunch of pansies that don't want anyone hurt in the name of the law? That is what the criminal justice system is there for. The punish people that did bad things.

Unusual? What makes a punishment unusual? Not doing it so often? So if we used harsher punishments more often they would be ok?

I never liked that "Cruel or unusual" clause. It has no meaning to me at all, and should be repealed, or reworded immediately.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The idea is execute the criminal straight-up rather than play with them, kill them incrementally, or use execution for terror.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

It was the fucking dog who did it. It was his ad on Craigs List that started the whole thing. Euthenize that fucker!

And like I said before, Oregon is getting weirder and weirder.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I cant believe this board has so many Puritans!

 

[R. Richard]

The purpose of executing a criminal is twofold. First, it insures that the criminal won't again violate the law [Hindus may not agree here.] Second, it provides an instructive lesson for those who might be tempted to commit a similar crime.

Commiting a crime against an adult is one thing,the adult may be able to fight back. Commiting a crime against a child is another, the child has been brainwashed not to resist adult authority. Thus, the idea that the punishment for a crime against a child [in this case a child of four years of age] should be the same as for commiting a crime against an adult is fundamentally flawed.

The crime that we're discussing here isn't really a sexual crime, it's like a prison rape in that the real intent is to enslave another human being, using humiliation as a weapon. To provide such a criminal with free room and board is to reward the crime. The use of a little scrap lumber and some old newspapers sends a strong message to the next person tempted to try the crime. JMNTHO.

 

[Huckleman2000]

The purpose of executing a criminal is twofold. First, it insures that the criminal won't again violate the law [Hindus may not agree here.] Second, it provides an instructive lesson for those who might be tempted to commit a similar crime.[...]

Your second reason holds no water. Capital punishment does not deter crime. (Obviously. )

This was a despicable act. That doesn't bring me down to the same level as the perpetrators, though, taking satisfaction in the torture of others.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Your second reason holds no water. Capital punishment does not deter crime. (Obviously. )

This was a despicable act. That doesn't bring me down to the same level as the perpetrators, though, taking satisfaction in the torture of others.

How silly! Dead criminals commit zero crimes. Killing them is the deterence.

 

[PublicAffection]

Update - they have the woman in custody and are working on piecing together her charges.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/10/newberg_man_accused_of_using_c.html

The problem with not stooping down to the level of criminals and forcing them to "live to learn from their mistakes" is that they don't learn anything other than that they are allowed to continue to exist no matter what they do to hurt someone else. I am for capital punishment. Although the eye-for-an-eye routine is barbaric at best I believe it is more effective than overcrowding prisons with people who we have to pay to feed, clothe and shelter although none of us wants them allowed into our neighborhoods again.

 

[Huckleman2000]

[...]The problem with not stooping down to the level of criminals and forcing them to "live to learn from their mistakes" is that they don't learn anything other than that they are allowed to continue to exist no matter what they do to hurt someone else. I am for capital punishment. Although the eye-for-an-eye routine is barbaric at best I believe it is more effective than overcrowding prisons with people who we have to pay to feed, clothe and shelter although none of us wants them allowed into our neighborhoods again.

These aren't the people "overcrowding" our prisons. They're who prisons were built for. Overcrowding is due to the so-called Drug War - incarcerating millions of people for non-violent crimes due to draconian minimum-sentence laws and misplaced law-enforcement priorities.
they don't learn anything other than that they are allowed to continue to exist no matter what they do to hurt someone else.
You mean "no matter what they did." It's an important distinction - no one is advocating for lawless anarchy, although I suppose lynch mobs come as close to that as anything else...

The crime that we're discussing here isn't really a sexual crime, it's like a prison rape in that the real intent is to enslave another human being, using humiliation as a weapon.

Is that the crime you're discussing, or the punishment you're advocating? They sound remarkably similar. Inhumanity breeds inhumanity.

 

[R. Richard]

Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Richard
The crime that we're discussing here isn't really a sexual crime, it's like a prison rape in that the real intent is to enslave another human being, using humiliation as a weapon.

Is that the crime you're discussing, or the punishment you're advocating? They sound remarkably similar. Inhumanity breeds inhumanity.

In humanity breeds inhumanity when the people subjected to inhuman treatment live and harbor seething hate because of their treatment. Burning at the stake doesn't breed inhumanity, since the person subjected to burning at the stake doesn't live. Burning at the stake doesn't subject the person to humiliation, just punishment. No one who has ever been burned at the stake has ever complaoned of humiliation.

Furnishing the perpetrator of the kind of crime we're discussing here humiliates the victims of a crime and the families of the victims. The victims of a crime and the families of the victims are then forced to provide free room, board, clothing and medical treatment to the person(s) who injured them.

 

[Huckleman2000]

[...]Furnishing the perpetrator of the kind of crime we're discussing here humiliates the victims of a crime and the families of the victims. The victims of a crime and the families of the victims are then forced to provide free room, board, clothing and medical treatment to the person(s) who injured them.

Yup. It all comes down to taxes, doesn't it? That's the ultimate humiliation.

Would it make you feel better if victims got to keep the fractions of a penny of their own contribution to the incarceration costs?

One purpose of a justice system is to remove passion and blood feud from societal law enforcement. One man and a gun, however homoerotic, is a lousy system of government.

 

[R. Richard]

Yup. It all comes down to taxes, doesn't it? That's the ultimate humiliation.

Would it make you feel better if victims got to keep the fractions of a penny of their own contribution to the incarceration costs?

One purpose of a justice system is to remove passion and blood feud from societal law enforcement. One man and a gun, however homoerotic, is a lousy system of government.

At no point in this discussion did I suggest passion based punishment. Any punishment should be administered only after a fair and timely trial [see the US Constitution.] However, a main purpose of a justice system is to keep the members of society safe from the predations of those who would harm innocent members of said society. Keeping the kind of scum who rape four-year-old children in custody doesn't do this. There are regular, mandated parole hearings and sooner or later, a number of really dangerous people are released back into society, with no accountability. When the scum again rape, and perhaps kill, another child, then society puts the scum back into free room and board.

Unfortunately, society has to pay to keep violent criminals behind bars. If the family of the victim isn't forced to pay for the scum who injured the victim, then they simply pay for the scum who injured another family.

It would seem that the preservation of the life of the kind of scum who rape four-year-old children is homoerotic, not the termination of said scum.

 

[JamesSD]

In abstract terms, the main reason many states don't have the death penalty are we have an imperfect and not totally fair justice system. When DNA evidence came into existance, it exonerated a lot of convictions of prisoner who would have been put to death, incorrectly, in death penalty states. It's also very well established that the better a lawyer you can afford, the lighter your sentence will be. White middle class persons are almost never sentenced to death for the same crimes that poor black men often are. When you have a justice system that doesn't fairly distribute punishment, it seriously calls into question the fairness of the death penalty.

Really though, we already have a defacto death penalty: put child molesters in the general prison population. Your average inmate hates child molesters as much as you or I, and also doesn't have the same qualms some of us do about actually getting our hands dirty killing someone personally.