Paul McCartney's advice to writers

[nice90sguy]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxQMm7KEVA1Ad_CkHtG4Ow7wrb_H9__C3N?si=1ddIC7euV-dqGuM8

I know it's kind of obvious, but damn I wish I followed that advice more -- it's probably why I grind to a halt so often with my stories

 

[Bramblethorn]

Translated to writing, approximately "write first, edit after".

From the number of writers who give similar advice, I gather this is something that works for many people. Unfortunately it's not something I've ever been able to make work for me; I find I have to edit as I go, and I know of successful professional authors who are the same.

I think it's worthwhile for everybody to consider this kind of advice and explore whether it might be helpful for them, but don't beat oneself up if it isn't. Brains and creative processes are idiosyncratic things.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I find this is very true, but I'm just ADHD enough that it's very tough for me. Unless, I'm writing on my phone with my Bluetooth keyboard on a break at work. Stopping to correct anything is super tough, in that instance. So I just don't bother with anything, it's just pure creative flow, and I can get a LOT written.

But when I have Grammarly and MSWord prompts nagging at me, it's a different experience.

 

[nice90sguy]

I think it's worthwhile for everybody to consider this kind of advice and explore whether it might be helpful for them, but don't beat oneself up if it isn't. Brains and creative processes are idiosyncratic things.

Even better advice than Paul's

 

[SimonDoom]

I agree with Bramblethorn, and I'm the sort who edits as I go, but I think there's something to what McCartney says. The reason my productivity level today is so much lower than it was back in 2017 when I started is that I overthink it now. Back then I wrote in a more free-flowing form, just letting the story flow. Now I'm scrutinizing every step, thinking about where I'm going next. So for me, personally, Sir Paul's advice is probably sound.

 

[lustychimera]

Translated to writing, approximately "write first, edit after".

From the number of writers who give similar advice, I gather this is something that works for many people. Unfortunately it's not something I've ever been able to make work for me; I find I have to edit as I go, and I know of successful professional authors who are the same.

I think it's worthwhile for everybody to consider this kind of advice and explore whether it might be helpful for them, but don't beat oneself up if it isn't. Brains and creative processes are idiosyncratic things.

Yeah, a very common piece of advice is to basically slop that first draft down, errors and all, which does make a lot of sense: Helps people from getting stuck in a critical loop and keeps people from missing the forest for a tree, especially when a lot of those little focus points will be edited out later anyway.

But I'm with you. I'm a bit of a pantser, so each passage builds on the last, and the pedantic details are where I find the most natural ideas to expand on.

And it's hard to move on if I'm not happy with the last. Then it's like I need to be writing an in between transition rather than a natural progression, its like trying to find the middle card in a straight rather than having options on either end.

 

[desecration]

Unfortunately it's not something I've ever been able to make work for me; I find I have to edit as I go, and I know of successful professional authors who are the same.

Me too. I think it's how people are wired. We are not equal; we are radically different, as individuals and groups etc. For those who like the write-once approach, it works, and I can see why: you always know how the story is going to turn out because all of the parts are completed as you go. Interestingly, this is my approach with some types of documents, but not fiction. To each his/her/its own.

But I will say that I kind of envy the write-once writers that I know. They hammer it out, get it done, and then go off to the bar while some of us are still here editing until three in the morning.

 

[intim8]

Translated to writing, approximately "write first, edit after".

Or to abstract it a little more: separate the creative process from the finishing process from the packaging process.

-Creative: making up the story and characters. This is where you do your pantsing or plotting.

-Finishing: Making the story into a coherent, engaging, and concrete form and structure. This is revising and the first several passes of editing. Plotters tend to front load this, so there is less, or less dramatic, work to do. Pantsters, this is where the "work" part of it starts.

-Packaging: Making sure every detail is correct. This is where the grammar, sentence structure and other details get gone over with a fine-tooth comb. It also includes details specific to the venue it will be published in, though if this is as elaborate as a printed book, the presentation part of it should probably be a separate step.

Nothing wrong with trying to write grammatically correct, well-structured and engaging prose from the start, during the creative process, but don't pay so much attention to it that it interferes with creativity. Those are two entirely different mindsets, using entirely different kinds of mental resources. Likewise, nothing wrong with fixing up obvious grammar errors while solidifiying the structure, but keeping that structure straight in your head takes a lot of concentration, don't get too distracted.

 

[CockSparrow]

Of late, I have been spending quite a bit of time talking with neurologists, psychologists, and psychiatrists. And, after almost 80 years wandering this third rock from the sun, dodging or trying to cope with, more than my share of frustrations, it has been suggested that I am ‘somewhat neurodiverse’.

Given that I have always had an interest in the whys of the world, this ‘news’ is unexpectedly comforting. It helps explain a few things. In fact, it helps explain quite a lot of things.

One piece of advice I wish I had been given many years ago came from one of the psychiatrists. ‘It’s probably worth keeping in mind,’ she said, ‘that most how-to advice is intended for the majority. And you are not really part of the majority.’

So now, when someone says ‘This is how you build a widget’, I no longer feel inferior when my brain says: ‘No. This is how you build a widget. I have my own way.’

 

[KeithD]

I drive to a complete initial draft off the top. It can change later in review, but I've driven to the end with it before I do much review.

 

[Bramblethorn]

One piece of advice I wish I had been given many years ago came from one of the psychiatrists. ‘It’s probably worth keeping in mind,’ she said, ‘that most how-to advice is intended for the majority. And you are not really part of the majority.’

So now, when someone says ‘This is how you build a widget’, I no longer feel inferior when my brain says: ‘No. This is how you build a widget. I have my own way.’

The analogy I sometimes use is that it's like having somebody tell you how to do something on a computer, and thinking "this seems to be working for everybody else, why isn't it working for me?"

And then realising that the instructions they're giving are for a PC, but you're working on a Mac. (Or vice versa, as preferred.) It's close enough that some things translate, but sometimes the things they're telling you to do just don't exist on your 'computer', or they exist but they don't do quite the same thing.

Still leaves you needing to figure out a bunch of stuff for yourself, but at least you can start working with the way your brain is instead of the way somebody else assumed it to be.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Or to abstract it a little more: separate the creative process from the finishing process from the packaging process.

-Creative: making up the story and characters. This is where you do your pantsing or plotting.

-Finishing: Making the story into a coherent, engaging, and concrete form and structure. This is revising and the first several passes of editing. Plotters tend to front load this, so there is less, or less dramatic, work to do. Pantsters, this is where the "work" part of it starts.

-Packaging: Making sure every detail is correct. This is where the grammar, sentence structure and other details get gone over with a fine-tooth comb. It also includes details specific to the venue it will be published in, though if this is as elaborate as a printed book, the presentation part of it should probably be a separate step.

Nothing wrong with trying to write grammatically correct, well-structured and engaging prose from the start, during the creative process, but don't pay so much attention to it that it interferes with creativity. Those are two entirely different mindsets, using entirely different kinds of mental resources.

For many people, they are. But for some of us, they might not be. It's a bit "everything everywhere all at once": if I want a scene to convey a particular mood, the fine detail of my prose needs to support that, and I need to be thinking about that at the same time as the big picture. I may find, as I'm writing a character's dialogue, that she's not quite the person I'd intended to be, and then the "creative" level of the story needs to shift to accommodate that. I can't lock in that "creative" part of the story before I start thinking about grammar and sentence structure.

It would be a lot simpler if I could just do A, then B, then C after A and B are locked in. I'd probably get a lot more written if I worked that way. But it doesn't seem to be how my mind goes.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Nothing wrong with trying to write grammatically correct, well-structured and engaging prose from the start, during the creative process, but don't pay so much attention to it that it interferes with creativity. Those are two entirely different mindsets, using entirely different kinds of mental resources. Likewise, nothing wrong with fixing up obvious grammar errors while solidifiying the structure, but keeping that structure straight in your head takes a lot of concentration, don't get too distracted.

Disagree, re the "different mindsets". If your writing chops are fundamentally capable, technically sound, grammatically accurate, and that ability is always there as part of your tool box (which it should be if you call yourself a writer) - that is, your mind is running in automatic on all that stuff - then the creative overlay just plonks itself down on that foundation.

It's the toolbox and exquisite furniture analogy - if all you have is a hammer and a saw, you'll only ever make packing boxes. To make that exquisite piece of furniture, you've got to have the right tools in the first place, and know how to use them. If you don't have the right tools, you're forever wasting your time.

No amount of editing will fix a crap sentence!

 

[intim8]

instructions they're giving are for a PC, but you're working on a Mac. (Or vice versa, as preferred.)

<sigh> I feel so left out.

 

[nice90sguy]

Of course Paul McCartney is exceptionally creative -- famously having literally "dreamed up" one of his biggest hits, "Yesterday".

After writing lots of stories, I've got a good idea of my limits, strengths and weaknesses. And ediiting while writing is something I do, and also know I shouldn't do -- in other words, I know myself well enough to know that "write, then edit" is a rubric I need to sew into a sampler.

But yeah, we're all different -- we don't all need eight hours sleep, or to walk 10,000 steps a day, or follow Mediterranean diets, or obey Grammarly.

 

[TheLobster]

<sigh> I feel so left out.

Linux users don’t need instructions, they just read the source code.

 

[StillStunned]

No-one seems to have registered the bit where he says "for me". He clearly understands that this doesn't work for everyone.

Personally, I don't worry about grammar and spelling as I'm typing, because I do those things without thinking. It's like driving a car: operating the vehicle and understanding the traffic rules are so ingrained that they become second nature, freeing up your conscious mind to focus on the road, on other users, on where you're going.

But I rarely sit down and type out a story in one go. So I have plenty of time in between writing sessions to go back and edit what I've already written. Rather than stemming the creative flow, this helps me to think about how to move forward.

 

[SimonDoom]

So now, when someone says ‘This is how you build a widget’, I no longer feel inferior when my brain says: ‘No. This is how you build a widget. I have my own way.’

Yes. Even though I don't bother to do it explicitly, everything I contribute in this forum about "how to" write should be appended with the statement, "This is how I do it and it seems to work for me. Your experience may differ." I think this is true for all of us. There are no universal formulas. Which is not to say that advice is useless.