Patriot day 9-11-04

[Jagged]

On 9/11/01 we were reminded why we call this lovely place the home of the brave.

On 9/11/01 we were reminded why duty, honor, and hero are more then just words in our language.

On 9/11/01 we were reminded that evil still hide in the shadows and once again it takes the cloak of religion. In the past it has hid in the military, government, and corporations so I am not picking on faith.

On 9/11/01 we were reminded that police officers, firefighters, and all first responders take on a job where the first requirement is to be a hero that is wait. Heroes that went back to their jobs the next day despite performing the largest rescue in human history. Despite losing 343 firefighters (yearly the average is a 100 deaths in the line of duty for the whole nation.)

Time has pasted and the new war continues. Unlike our cold war enemies these terrorists are not even rational.

President Bush had no past experience to draw on and no plan had been written up for an attack like this sitting in the Pentagon. Many think ill of the President and it has become all the rage to bash him and even say he caused 9-11 to get votes.

For all these people I say simply......Start thinking!! The gauntlet has been thrown down. We have to fight. There is no choice but to fight. Think this is about oil and western repression?? Feel guilty for living in the wealthiest nation in the world??!

Stop it and take up the fight. They terrorists don't care what you think. The Wish for an Islamic Empire world wide. They kill children, blow up buses, kill soldier and civilian alike.


I didn't not want to get political with this tribute but that is the way it is...If the election had went the other way I would be supporting President Gore...hopely he would rise to the challenge. Everything is not alright with the world and we can't keep thinking it is....Much has been spent on the war, but The President has still spent much on domestic programs like education. All the other causes are moot if we have no nation.

I love my country and by all means think what you want. Just don't be a fool. On patriot day.....act like one. Remember how great it is in this country and what needs to be done to keep it that way.


The your police and fire fighters even if you live in a small town. They would not run from such danger, but rise to the challenge and do their jobs. Go to your local firehouse and volunteer. Listen to what your national guard recruiter. When you see a veteran say thank you.....


We must win the day. I do not wish to see this nation go into this goodnight.

I am American and I am a firefighter. One by birth the other by choice. I love my country and I am still in aww of those who gave all for it and if given a second chance would do it again.

In closing I remember the police officer at One Police Plaza turning in his retirement papers after 25 years of service to the city on 9/11/01. The alarm sounded and all officers went running to respond. Nobody would have said a word if this veteran just went home. He did not and that day was sadly truly his last day on the job. My eyes fill with tears for not just the act, but the fact I can't believe this hero's name.

Today patriot day is a day of heroes.





Main Entry: he·ro
Pronunciation: 'hir-(")O, 'hE-(")rO
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural heroes
Etymology: Latin heros, from Greek hErOs
1 a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability b : an illustrious warrior c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities d : one that shows great courage
2 a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement
3 plural usually heros : SUBMARINE 2
4 : an object of extreme admiration and devotion : IDOL


Just doesn't even come close to explaining it...

 

[Guest]

Thank you, Jagged. I have worn the 1* emblem for a long time in support of militery, law enforcement and emergency/rescue personnel.

They have and will always have the deepest respect and admiration for the jobs they do.

I stand behind the actions of our country and our president. And will continue to do so.

 

[cloudy]

 

[SnoopDog]

Thank you, Jagged. I have worn the 1* emblem for a long time in support of militery, law enforcement and emergency/rescue personnel.

They have and will always have the deepest respect and admiration for the jobs they do.

I stand behind the actions of our country and our president. And will continue to do so.

Ok, I really don't want to pick a fight but I have to say this.

You have to accept that there is a way between black or white.

You can as well agree to what Jagged said (as I do) AND at the same time don't stand behind the presidents actions. (as I do)

There is a difference between fully backing the fight against terrorism and bombing the shit out of a foreign country just for the oil and sake of it.

Snoopy

 

[Guest]

Ok, I really don't want to pick a fight but I have to say this.

You have to accept that there is a way between black or white.

You can as well agree to what Jagged said (as I do) AND at the same time don't stand behind the presidents actions. (as I do)

There is a difference between fully backing the fight against terrorism and bombing the shit out of a foreign country just for the oil and sake of it.

Snoopy

 

[Jagged]

Yeah I keep forgetting it is about the oil and they hate us for what we do......we made them bomb the towers right? We made them so mad they take heads of soldiers and civilians.

 

[Guest]

Today patriot day is a day of heroes.

Just doesn't even come close to explaining it...

Thank you, Jagged.

Wise words and beautiful sentiments.

My father is a Vietnam vet. I have the utmost respect for him and for all others who serve or who have served, be it military, medical, police or firefighter.

And I love my country.

We're not done in Iraq. We'll be there awhile, hopefully completing the job that was begun.

But in all honesty I believe a leadership change in November will be best for the United States.

You don't have to love President Bush to be a solid patriot. I support our troops - but I do not respect him.

 

[Jagged]

Finally an opinion I can at least respect even if I think it is wrong. I just think it is a bad thing to change horses in the middle of a race. Senator Kerry lacks experience and frankly due to no fault of his own will lose valuable time getting familiar with the situation.



Anyway I didn't want this thread to be political but patriotic.


All I say is when you see a tired old veteran...say thanks and know he.she earned a rest.

 

[SnoopDog]

Yeah I keep forgetting it is about the oil and they hate us for what we do......we made them bomb the towers right? We made them so mad they take heads of soldiers and civilians.

Oh come on, I never said that, but if you honestly believe that the war on Iraq was all and only about fighting terrorism or even better, finding weapons of mass destruction (oops, did I just say the forbidden word, like vietnam?) then I think you should take some time to reconsider.

And this has nothing to do with being anti-american or not.

Snoopy

 

[Guest]

Finally an opinion I can at least respect even if I think it is wrong. I just think it is a bad thing to change horses in the middle of a race. Senator Kerry lacks experience and frankly due to no fault of his own will lose valuable time getting familiar with the situation.

LOL!

Well, sweetie, I don't think it's wrong.

The changing horses analogy is appropriate. Except in this case, I think the horse is currently going the wrong direction.

And patriotism has become an issue with the political ads, unfortunately. Since when did voting your conscience mean you were somehow a bad American?

Ah, well. It will be over soon.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I'm very angry aout your post. I'm livid at the insinuations of your post. And I'm red-faced about the way you try and promote ush with this tragedy just like all the fuckin' right-wing talking heads.

The people who died that day were mostly liberals.

The hijackers were mostly members of an Egyptian sector of al-Queda, were funded by Saudi Arabia and trained in Pakistan and Afghanistan. We fought a half-hearted war in Afghanistan pulling away from al-queda as fast as we could and went fighting in the sole secular regime in the region besides Israel. We have made what could have been the simple punishment against an act of terror into a fuckin' jihad crusade just like Osama wanted and repeatedly requested.

So fuck this post asshole. That's not a political statement, that's a patriotic statement.

-The demon coming back from checking up on the uncle from New York who went alcoholic three years ago on that fateful day.

 

[minsue]

I'm very angry aout your post. I'm livid at the insinuations of your post. And I'm red-faced about the way you try and promote ush with this tragedy just like all the fuckin' right-wing talking heads.

The people who died that day were mostly liberals.

The hijackers were mostly members of an Egyptian sector of al-Queda, were funded by Saudi Arabia and trained in Pakistan and Afghanistan. We fought a half-hearted war in Afghanistan pulling away from al-queda as fast as we could and went fighting in the sole secular regime in the region besides Israel. We have made what could have been the simple punishment against an act of terror into a fuckin' jihad crusade just like Osama wanted and repeatedly requested.

So fuck this post asshole. That's not a political statement, that's a patriotic statement.

-The demon coming back from checking up on the uncle from New York who went alcoholic three years ago on that fateful day.

https://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/497/0001/www.proflowers.com/prodimg/MBQdlxhugskisses_lg.jpg

 

[Jagged]

I think she was insulting me back there...lol Liberals can be so mean when they run out of things to say.


Anyway I know most liberals died on 9-11 pity it didn't bring many to their senses.


9-11 1812
Washington was in flames and almost completely destroyed.

Weeks later......
Baltimore which had seen violent anti-war prostests just 2 years before rallied as the country is being attacked. The citizens rallied to help the military and local merchants even sunk their ships in the harbor to prevent enemy ships from entering in to the citie's harbor. Thousands of citizens join the local militia units and dug in for the fight.

The rest is a heroic chapter in this nation's history.

You liberals want to sit on the sidelines while others do the fighting so be it....the country is for you too.


Vietnam was a liberal started war btw....and we didn't lose. We left. That won't happen again. Keep griping though we may pull out....help the terrorists that is what your doing. They won't stop even if we leave.


If we were just an Empire things would be alot easier. But we are not.


So this past weekend I remembered the heroics of those on such a horriable day. Most liberals think of 9-11 as just another natural diaster.

Islamic terrorists have hated westerners since the last crusaders left to return to Europe. We are fighting evil all over the world.

 

[Jagged]

Snoopy


One of my favorite fury creatures...


Your opinion being a Europeon one is interesting to me considering it doesn't really matter at all.

Yes Germany.....the reason your not in the war is what? because you were doing business with Iraq? (oil and arms if I remember...huge uncollected debt) or was it because the war hasn't been on a grand enough scale for you all? (not like we are wiping out millions of people here...sorry)

Is that picking a fight?

Let me see the United States went to war twice in the last century to save the world against......let me think here ah Germans.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

... Anyway I know most liberals died on 9-11 pity it didn't bring many to their senses.

9-11 1812

Washington was in flames and almost completely destroyed . ...
The rest is a heroic chapter in this nation's history....

Your History seems to be as faulty as your current events.

British forces under George Gelig sacked and burned Washington, not on Sept. 11, 1812, but rather on August 25, 1814. This was done (at least according to some historians) in reprisal for American troops burning the Upper Canada (Ontario) capital of York (Toronto) earlier in May of 1813.

I know it would fit your needs better if the two events had both occurred on the same date. And nice try! But the trouble with convenient fabrications is that somebody always knows.

How does that saying go again?

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!



P.S. I don’t know what it bodes, but the heroine of the event was Dolley Madison.
The Dolley Madison Project

 

[Jagged]

Must have had the days confused on the history channel documentry....my bad (I guess have to doe some research.)

One thing that is very clear is that the Bristish forces ravished the country burning farmers, and raping women......that was okay right?



Update......found my mistake sorry.
September 11

1814 America victorious on Lake Champlain

During the Battle of Plattsburg on Lake Champlain, a newly built U.S. fleet under Master Commandant Thomas Macdonough destroys a British squadron, forcing the British to abandon their siege of the U.S. fort at Plattsburg and retreat to Canada on foot. The American victory saved New York from possible invasion and helped lead to the conclusion of peace negotiations between Britain and the United States in Ghent, Belgium.

The War of 1812 began on June 18, 1812, when the United States declared war on Britain. The war declaration, opposed by a sizable minority in Congress, had been called in response to the British economic blockade of France, the induction of American seamen into the British Royal Navy against their will, and the British support of hostile Indian tribes along the Great Lakes frontier. A faction of Congress known as the "War Hawks" had been advocating war with Britain for several years and had not hidden their hopes that a U.S. invasion of Canada might result in significant territorial gains for the United States.

In the months after President James Madison proclaimed the state of war to be in effect, American forces launched a three-point invasion of Canada, all of which were decisively unsuccessful. In 1814, with Napoleon Bonaparte's French empire collapsing, the British were able to allocate more military resources to the American war, and Washington, D.C., fell to the British in August. In Washington, British troops burned the White House, the Capitol, and other buildings in retaliation for the earlier burning of government buildings in Canada by U.S. soldiers.

In September 1814, the tide of the war turned when Thomas Macdonough's American naval force won a decisive victory at the Battle of Plattsburg, New York. The American victory on Lake Champlain led to the conclusion of U.S.-British peace negotiations in Belgium, and on December 24, 1814, the Treaty of Ghent was signed, formally ending the War of 1812. By the terms of the agreement, all conquered territory was to be returned, and a commission would be established to settle the boundary of the United States and Canada.

British forces assailing the Gulf Coast were not informed of the treaty in time, and on January 8, 1815, the U.S. forces under Andrew Jackson achieved the greatest American victory of the war at the Battle of New Orleans. The American public heard of Jackson's victory and the Treaty of Ghent at approximately the same time, fostering a greater sentiment of self-confidence and shared identity throughout the young republic.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Anyway I know most liberals died on 9-11 pity it didn't bring many to their senses.

You liberals want to sit on the sidelines while others do the fighting so be it....the country is for you too.


Vietnam was a liberal started war btw....and we didn't lose. We left. That won't happen again. Keep griping though we may pull out....help the terrorists that is what your doing. They won't stop even if we leave.


If we were just an Empire things would be alot easier. But we are not.


So this past weekend I remembered the heroics of those on such a horriable day. Most liberals think of 9-11 as just another natural diaster.

Islamic terrorists have hated westerners since the last crusaders left to return to Europe. We are fighting evil all over the world.

I'm going to this by numbers. Each number is a response to one paragraph.

1) Fuck you, you insensitive widow hating asshole. You speak of heroism and belittle the very victims of the attack. That is callous shitty behavior. "Didn't wake them up..." As if because they had their husbands, wives, children, parents die the family members are supposed to be for tax breaks for the rich, destruction of natural parks and forests, and unregulated capitalism. And for those dead faggots, I guess they're reward is a constitutional amendment assuring that if a tragedy ever befalls others like it did them, their long-term lovers are not guaranteed any insurance money or custody of their children. Yeah, they "should wake up"... Jesus fucking Christ.

2) Sit on the sidelines? The military is about half-liberal too. Liberals have again and again proved their mettle in war and starting wars. Was it not the commie pinko rat Rosevelt who fought hard to get us into World War II, who aided Britain when his country was against involvement in European wars. The only thing the liberals seem to be for is a simple request for defensive war versus invasion. Liberals are against us invading a country with a pathetic rational like we did in Iraq (liberating the Iraqi people was reason number 3, remember? after ties to al-Queda and WMDs were proved to be bullshit). God, I'd have loved it if we had gone into Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Egypt; cut off all the major backers of al-queda, actually pursued al-queda bringing many to justice, or IF WE HADN'T OUTED OUR UNDERCOVER AL-QUEDA MOLE! How is being against stupidity in the war on terrorism, "sitting on the sidelines"?

3) Jesus, we couldn't win Vietnam. It was a QUAGMIRE! Hear me? We had no way to "win" besides eliminating every single person in southeast asia the way we were going. We left because there was no way to win. We're going to have to do the same in Iraq because the insurgents are not a central organization, the interm government is seen as a puppet, and we're regularly pissing the Iraqis off with our dismissive treatment of Abu Ghraib and the other less publicized camps. We won't win it. Nor will we ever really win against terrorism for that matter. The only thing you could do is blow up all the countries that contain Islamic elements including the good ol' USA. It's called genocide.

4) False. As an empire we would have multiple countries in full revolt much like the British Empire after the Age of Imperialism. Empires are not easier, only bigger and more romanticized.

5) Bullshit. Liberals don't see it as a natural disaster. They see it as an attack on America. They just have this stupid thing about them that makes them want to demand that their government goes after the man responsible (OSAMA bin LADEN) instead of a (relatively, from the perspective of America) ineffectual secular dictator whom the man responsible would sooner die than ally with (SADDAM).

6) Wrong, they've hated us since before the first Crusade happened. They've hated Christians and Christians have hated them over the great disagreement over who talked to God and which Holy Book is true. In fact Islamists hate each other like Catholics and Protestants hate each other, along the lines of Sunni and Shi'ite. We do fight evil (usually). Sometimes though, in our strives against communism, we overreached into that deadly grey area (okay in the case of latin american countries we can call it often). In this war in Iraq right now, we are in the very dangerously grey sector. Once we have to say shit like we're not as bad as Saddam to justify our actions and number of raped children is entered into any tally sheet on our conduct, we're in grave danger of losing our collective souls to the gods of war.



Furthermore, if we were invaded by a foreign country, I'd be right up there on the roof with my shiny new assault rifle making sure they paid for every inch. I'd protect me and mine with every breath of life I could spare, every second I could buy them to get away.

And I want revenge on Osama. I know by logic, revenge is only the attempt to fill an empty hole with blood, but I want it just the same. That is one of the reasons I refuse to cheer Bush on the anniversary of 9/11. He had the will, the trust of the people, all he had to do was pursue like a dog, Osama until he caught him. Instead he got distracted and went into Iraq instead. Forgetting all about Osama and al-queda, believing that we'd be satisfied with any blood that looked like it came from a "sand nigger". That betrayal is why you're pro-Bush crap is like salt in an old wound. It's thanking the man who twisted the knife when we asked him to pull it out.

 

[Jagged]

My liberals are so mean when they run out of things to say.


lol.......you make me laugh and with every post I know my vote is right.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

... The American victory on Lake Champlain led to the conclusion of U.S.-British peace negotiations ... all conquered territory was to be returned...

There was nothing especially laudable to come out of the War of 1812.

The first several years of the war were blotted by major American failures, usually failures due to the incompetent leadership by Revolutionary War holdovers. America did not achieve any success until after the incompetents were weeded out and junior officers allowed to advance — such as Winfield Scott, who in March of 1814 became America’s youngest general.

On the British side, early successes won by Sir Isaac Brock and his ally, Tecumseh, were squandered by an overcautious Governor General Prevost, then finally thrown away at the close of the Battle of Plattsburgh. Provost lead the largest British Army — Wellington’s veterans direct from bloody Napoleonic battles — to cross into America during the War of 1812. Once navel support had been lost, Provost commanded his men to burn their excess supplies and retreated to Canadian soil.

That invading Canada wasn’t, as Thomas Jefferson predicted, "merely a matter of marching," can be attributed to two leaders, Brock for the British, Tecumseh for the Indians, and the inferior quality of American military leaders as the war began.

That the British did not succeed in defeating the American forces can be attributed to Captain Macdonough's tactics on Lake Champlain, Major Armistead and his thousand men withstanding the bombardment of Fort McHenry, and the trepidations of the British Governor General Prevost.

The British got to keep their territory, the Canadians to keep their choice of government, and Americans got official recognition of their sovereign state.* Only Tecumseh’s people lost — as always.


You could say that the War of 1812 was declared by a War Hawk President and his cabal, urged on by the promise of vast resources, nearly lost, then concluded as a draw. That would make it sound vaguely similar to a contemporary situation.

I would be loath to suggest that.

The War of 1812 had its own setting, its own ambitions, and entirely dissimilar forces motivating the events. Rewriting history to support contemporary propaganda is a despicable practice. It misleads and distorts appreciation of today while it obscures and belittles the achievements of the past.



* I nearly forgot.

A young lawyer named Francis Scott Key watched the British bombardment of Fort McHenry and wrote a poem entitled “The Star-Spangled Banner," as a result, we have a National Anthem to which few citizens can remember all the words.

 

[oggbashan]

Comparisons are odious

The War of 1812 was unnecessary and should have been prevented.

9/11 killed US citizens and people who were not US citizens. Look at the list of countries who lost citizens.

The connection between 9/11 and Iraq has not been made.

There are people and countries who regret 9/11 and sympathise with the US and others who lost people in that event who cannot wholly agree with the war in Iraq. The horror of 9/11 shocked the world and very few approved or celebrated it. Most Muslims condemned (and still condemn) Al-Queda as a terrorist organisation that has nothing in common with any main-stream Muslim organisation or indeed any religion.

The UK (and other countries) supported and support the US in the war on terrorism.

The UK (and other countries but not so many as in the above statement) supported and support the US in Iraq. Countries not involved in the war are nevertheless helping to restructure Iraq.

9/11 and Iraq are different issues.

Og

 

[Guest]

My liberals are so mean when they run out of things to say.

lol.......you make me laugh and with every post I know my vote is right.

Liberals? Liberals????

*sigh*

Now who is the one name-calling?

I am liberal. Liberal means willing to accept change, open-minded.

Conservative means close-minded and unwilling to accept the idea of change, even for the greater good.

No matter what it has been twisted to mean by politicians at this time in history, I would much rather be liberal.

 

[GingerV]

My liberals are so mean when they run out of things to say.


lol.......you make me laugh and with every post I know my vote is right.

Actually, I think Luc had quite a lot to say. He may not have couched it in such a way as to attract converts to his cause, but behind the anger are some very good points.

Still, even if he'd said it differently...very good points are still wasted on those who aren't willing to listen.

G (who's always been puzzled by folks who think Liberal is an insult)

 

[minsue]

My liberals are so mean when they run out of things to say.


lol.......you make me laugh and with every post I know my vote is right.

What a fascinating and convincing argument. You ought to be a speechwriter.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: Comparisons are odious

9/11 and Iraq are different issues.

Og

Thank you for pointing that out!

 

[sweetnpetite]

Liberals? Liberals????

*sigh*

Now who is the one name-calling?

I am liberal. Liberal means willing to accept change, open-minded.

Conservative means close-minded and unwilling to accept the idea of change, even for the greater good.

No matter what it has been twisted to mean by politicians at this time in history, I would much rather be liberal.