Pathetic

[FantasyXY]

I get having a low opinion of mouth-breathers on the Fetish boards or something, but what XY is doing is basically not-so-subtly devaluing the work of female writers by claiming that the bulk of reactions can have nothing to do with their actual quality. That part I'm not buying. (And not because I'm subtly angling for any female attention, either, I mean I just don't buy it. I don't see any reason to assume that people are reacting or not reacting to stories that way.)

Cyrano,
I am not trying to devalue the work of any gender of writer, but your observation on my posts is at the core of my original question. There is little doubt that stories perceived to have been written by a woman get better scores on Lit.

So my question to all still stands unanswered...

Do women write better erotica, or does the sausage fest nature of this site cause stories that are written from the female POV to get higher scores?

 

[sr71plt]

There would be a lot of varying reasons wouldn't there?--many relying on personal opinion only, which might make it worthwhile to identify some, but not worthwhile to trying to pin them down into scientific stats and then project action from them.

My personal opinion is that there would be far more women readers coming here to read something with at least pretensions of being literary and with milder graphic content than there are male readers, that more female writers here have at least the pretensions of being literary than the bulk of the male writers are--and less driven to include graphic sexual content--and that, therefore, there are more readers overall looking for writers they perceive to be female than male. Just my opinion. And, yes, I think there are more male readers looking for graphic depiction of sex from a female point of view than there are females looking for graphic depiction of sex from a male point of view.

Again, just my opinion. It's not going to influence what I write, though. Or what I read, for that matter.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Cyrano,
I am not trying to devalue the work of any gender of writer, but your observation on my posts is at the core of my original question. There is little doubt that stories perceived to have been written by a woman get better scores on Lit.

I disagree. I looked at the Hall of Fame top 5 stories for some of the more popular categories (basically, until I got bored), checking how authors identified in their profile.

BDSM: NFFFM (i.e. top-ranked story "no answer", #2-4 female author, #5 male author)
Erotic Couplings: MMMFF
Incest/Taboo: MMMNN
Interracial: NNFNM
Loving Wives: MMMMM
NC/Reluctance: FNFFF
Nonhuman: FMFMM
Romance: MMMMM
Sci-Fi/Fantasy: FMMMF

All in all, out of those top-5s, I count 14 with female authors and 24 with male authors (plus 7 "no answer"). That's roughly in line with the overall proportions of female- vs male-authored stories.

Of course, there are a lot of other ways to crunch the data (if anybody feels like scraping the site to give me a big database to play with, I'm happy to do something a bit more rigorous) but on first glance, I'm not convinced that there is any overall tendency to favour female authors.

 

[Tigersman]

Who's female

I hate to admit it, but I have to agree with sr71plt. There is no way you can positively tell if it's a male or a female who is authoring a story or a post to a thread. One of the best fantasy and sci-fi authors as early as the 50's, who went by the name Andre Norton to hide their identity so that their work would be accepted by the audiences of sc-fi books, was a woman. She paved the way for other female authors who wanted to enter the sci-fi and fantasy market.

 

[slyc_willie]

The pathetic behavior is more subconscious and doesn't actually include deciding to on an action to try and get laid. Instead, the throngs of the pathetic subconsciously praise anything they perceive as coming from a woman. These pathetic men also just sit and hope that some woman, any woman, one will notice them. Women aren't immune to this either. There are plenty of wall flowers in any social situation.

I'm just going to go out on a limb and suggest that FantasyXY might just be talking about himself, in a purely "subconscious," Freudian way.

Good luck, FXY.

 

[slyc_willie]

I hate to admit it, but I have to agree with sr71plt. There is no way you can positively tell if it's a male or a female who is authoring a story or a post to a thread.

Exactly. And any argument to try to qualify who is who or what ultimately falls short in the face of unreliable evidence.

The issue is dead in the water.

 

[Handley_Page]

So my question to all still stands unanswered...

Do women write better erotica, or does the sausage fest nature of this site cause stories that are written from the female POV to get higher scores?

Ask the author of "50 Shades" ?

 

[lovecraft68]

This thread popped into my mind as I was drifting through the ampic forum

want to see pathetic, head over there.

A woman could post a pic of herself in shapeless sweat pants and a turtleneck while wearing a hockey mask and two dozen guys will tell her how hot she is.

The ultimate sign of the "Maleus Pathetcus" on lit is

'Pm sent"

 

[Katiecat]

Cyrano,
I am not trying to devalue the work of any gender of writer, but your observation on my posts is at the core of my original question. There is little doubt that stories perceived to have been written by a woman get better scores on Lit.

So my question to all still stands unanswered...

Do women write better erotica, or does the sausage fest nature of this site cause stories that are written from the female POV to get higher scores?

What, exactly, is the answer you seek, weary pilgirm?

A. "Yes, women write better erotica"? That is extremely subjective, but no, I don't believe that is true. I like male authors and female authors, and authors of undetermined gender.

B. "Yes, this site is a sausage fest, full of pathetic men who score female POV stories high in a desperate attempt to get laid"? Again, I don't believe that is true. There is no way for any of us to know how many of our readers are male, how many are female, and how many of either gender bother to vote. As far as comments go, many I receive are from anons or readers who have gender-ambiguous names, so again, no way to know. Of the gender identified readers who have commented favorably on my stories -- male or female -- NONE have tried to come on to me, they've just said they like my stories.

Of the private messages I've received, most are side comments off the boards, from fellow writers -- intelligent, informative, friendly, funny. I have gotten some inappropriate messages from men (none from women) -- but the guys who send those messages don't indicate that they've ever read or voted on any of my stories at all, they are just responding to a female user name. I just dodge those and ignore them, or direct them to the personals section of this site if that's what they are looking for.

It seems that if your theory was true, that the men whom I turn down would retaliate by trolling me and 1-bombing my stories. Hasn't happened yet -- knock on wood. You're a guy, XY....do YOU do that? If not, why would you assume other guys do?

 

[Katiecat]

Ask the author of "50 Shades" ?

Wait...are we talking about popular erotica, or good erotica? 50 Shades is very popular -- and I believe most of the readers are women. I don't know many men at all who have been even remotely interested in reading it. My husband did after I declared, "Well, this is a huge pile of shite," and he had to find out for himself (inquisitive thing that he is). And he concurred, yes indeed, it is truly dreadful. Embarrassingly so. Cringe-worthy. But...the writer definitely found her market. She took a taboo subject and made it accessible to the masses, sending vanilla couples to Target to pick up her paperbacks next to a display of paddles and blindfolds on sale this week. :caning:

 

[Katiecat]

A woman could post a pic of herself in shapeless sweat pants and a turtleneck while wearing a hockey mask and two dozen guys will tell her how hot she is.

Hey, hey now....that's my clubbin' outfit. Looks really hot with my bunny slippers.

 

[TxRad]

Hey, hey now....that's my clubbin' outfit. Looks really hot with my bunny slippers.

Bunny Slippers will do it every time.

 

[legerdemer]

Hey, hey now....that's my clubbin' outfit. Looks really hot with my bunny slippers.

Bunny Slippers will do it every time.

They tickle in all the right places? A new fetish!

 

[Bramblethorn]

I hate to admit it, but I have to agree with sr71plt. There is no way you can positively tell if it's a male or a female who is authoring a story or a post to a thread. One of the best fantasy and sci-fi authors as early as the 50's, who went by the name Andre Norton to hide their identity so that their work would be accepted by the audiences of sc-fi books, was a woman. She paved the way for other female authors who wanted to enter the sci-fi and fantasy market.

Yep. See also James Tiptree Jr, and earlier on, George Sand, George Eliot, the Brontës, et al. Also quite a few women who used an ambiguous nom de plume to hedge their bets. http://mashable.com/2015/03/01/female-authors-pen-names/

But for the question of whether writers perceived as female get higher scores, seems reasonable to go by what they have in their profile, and I'm still not convinced it's a real effect.

 

[AZMotherLover]

Wait...are we talking about popular erotica, or good erotica? 50 Shades is very popular -- and I believe most of the readers are women. I don't know many men at all who have been even remotely interested in reading it. My husband did after I declared, "Well, this is a huge pile of shite," and he had to find out for himself (inquisitive thing that he is). And he concurred, yes indeed, it is truly dreadful. Embarrassingly so. Cringe-worthy. But...the writer definitely found her market. She took a taboo subject and made it accessible to the masses, sending vanilla couples to Target to pick up her paperbacks next to a display of paddles and blindfolds on sale this week. :caning:

I don't know if you've heard of Godwin's Law, which states, "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1".

I'm proposing AZMotherLover's Law, which states, "As an online discussion of erotica grows longer, the probability of mentioning and criticizing 'Fifty Shades of Grey' approaches 1"

 

[Katiecat]

I don't know if you've heard of Godwin's Law, which states, "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1".

I'm proposing AZMotherLover's Law, which states, "As an online discussion of erotica grows longer, the probability of mentioning and criticizing 'Fifty Shades of Grey' approaches 1"

Have you read it? It really is that bad, and it's erotica that went mainstream. And it's fairly recent. So, yep, it gets mentioned. But also pertinent to this discussion because it is:
Written by a woman
From a female POV
Mostly female audience
Started out online -- since it began as Twilight fanfic, likely has always had a primarily female audience

 

[Hypoxia]

I don't know if you've heard of Godwin's Law, which states, "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1".

I'm proposing AZMotherLover's Law, which states, "As an online discussion of erotica grows longer, the probability of mentioning and criticizing 'Fifty Shades of Grey' approaches 1"

I've already posted the Hypoxiated version: "As a STORY IDEAS thread grows longer, the probability that tentacles are mentioned approaches 1."

The corollary of these laws is that the threads die soon afterwards.

 

[sr71plt]

The corollary of these laws is that the threads die soon afterwards.

In the hope that is true: tentacles.

 

[AZMotherLover]

Have you read it? It really is that bad, and it's erotica that went mainstream. And it's fairly recent. So, yep, it gets mentioned. But also pertinent to this discussion because it is:
Written by a woman
From a female POV
Mostly female audience
Started out online -- since it began as Twilight fanfic, likely has always had a primarily female audience

I have read it, and I enjoyed it. It wasn't exactly Steinbeck or Twain, but I've read romance novels that were worse.

I liked the playful banter Anastasia and Christian had in their Emails back and forth.

Were there parts that annoyed me? Sure. I was rolling my eyes after every "splintering", "shattering", "exploding" orgasm.

I read the book to get an idea what women like to read, because my stories don't resonate with the fairer sex at all.

Having read the book also gave me an opening to chat up women in real life and I ended up meeting my current girlfriend partly due to "Fifty Shades".

 

[CyranoJ]

Bramblethorn and Katiecat have it covered. Thumbs up.

 

[LadyVer]

Exactly. And any argument to try to qualify who is who or what ultimately falls short in the face of unreliable evidence.

The issue is dead in the water.

I don't know. I'm pretty good at guessing if a writer is male or female.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't know. I'm pretty good at guessing if a writer is male or female.

You track them down and eyeball them; make them drop their pants for a check? If not, you're just making assumptions.

That's rather the universal answer each time this gender question comes up. You simply can't reliably tell what gender each and every author or even poster is. Sometimes, yes. A claim of being able to always or even most of the time pin them down individually?--not a chance. Figure them out enough to construct useful stats? Nope.

 

[LadyVer]

You track them down and eyeball them; make them drop their pants for a check? If not, you're just making assumptions.

That's rather the universal answer each time this gender question comes up. You simply can't reliably tell what gender each and every author or even poster is. Sometimes, yes. A claim of being able to always or even most of the time pin them down individually?--not a chance. Figure them out enough to construct useful stats? Nope.

Whatever you say, dear. My stats are 98.9% though.

 

[lowphat]

I don't know. I'm pretty good at guessing if a writer is male or female.

Most of us are

 

[Katiecat]

I have read it, and I enjoyed it. It wasn't exactly Steinbeck or Twain, but I've read romance novels that were worse.

I liked the playful banter Anastasia and Christian had in their Emails back and forth.

Were there parts that annoyed me? Sure. I was rolling my eyes after every "splintering", "shattering", "exploding" orgasm.

And every "crap", "double-crap", "Jeez", and "argh" uttered during sex -- pirate porn, perhaps? Her inner goddess that sulked, fist-pumped, merengued, and did a triple axel dismount off uneven bars (those are all literally in the books). And, of course, literary gems like:

“'Put the chicken in the fridge.' This is not a sentence I had ever expected to hear from Christian, and only he can make it sound hot, really hot.”

"Oh my… sweat and body wash and Christian. It's a heady cocktail—so much better than a margarita, and now I can speak from experience."

"Why hasn't he given me back my panties? I steal into the bathroom, bewildered by my lack of underwear."

LOL...sorry. You are right, I have read worse. But I don't believe I've read worse that made the author a billionaire. And I've read a LOT better here on Lit by authors who aren't getting paid for their work.

I read the book to get an idea what women like to read, because my stories don't resonate with the fairer sex at all.

Having read the book also gave me an opening to chat up women in real life and I ended up meeting my current girlfriend partly due to "Fifty Shades".

Respectfully...it might be the subject matter? Unless you are writing under another name, your stories on here are all mother/son incest stories, probably not as popular with women as with men. They are resonating with someone, because you have pretty high marks.

Glad FSOG worked for you, and yes, a lot of women are buying those books. Some of us are just really sorry we spent the money.