Past Perfect Tense within a Narrative Predominantly in the past Simple Tense.

[StopT]

Extensive use of the past perfect tense within a simple past narrative can disrupt the flow and be rather irksome.

What do you do when faced with lengthy passages like flashbacks or background stories detailing events predating the main timeline?

1. Maintain the perfect tense regardless of length.
2. Switch to the simple tense to ensure smooth narrative flow.
3. Switch to the simple tense, but separate the passage with asterisks.

 

[intim8]

If it's a lengthier passage, I tend to lead into it with past perfect, then tell the story in simple past tense, then drop some kind of marker that the story is returning to the main timeline.

I had taken the train to work that day. There were no empty seats, so I was forced to stand... So today, I made sure that I caught an earlier train...

 

[Candy_Kane54]

Here's how I do it ...

As she spoke, I flashed back to a previous conversation ...

... " I just don't understand her," Ellie groused as she slumped into the chair next to me.
[more talking]
"Well, it is what it is," I said, trying to reassure her ...

... "Well, what to do you think?" Ellie asked impatiently, pulling me back to the present.

 

[SimonDoom]

I prefer to use past perfect tense for short stretches. If I have a long passage that takes place before the main story timeline, then I'll indicate some type of break, like a chapter break, and then keep the older timeline in simple past tense.

 

[StillStunned]

Conventional practice is to use the pluperfect once at the start of the section, then once again at the end. I sometimes omit the last one if it's clear from the narrative that the section is over.

 

[KeithD]

Use simple past tense as much as you can.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

The only time that I wouldn't use simple past tense is in frame story (prologue). In exposition (flashback, etc.), it is my preferred approach. I always make a point of delineating the section with a break (***) or some other obvious change (italics, etc.).

 

[TheOtherTeacher]

British English uses Past Perfect (and all perfect tenses generally) a lot more than American English.

The Past Perfect tenses (simple and continuous) have their uses, to make timelines clear. If something happened before the main storypoint you are in, I'd recommend using the past perfect IF you are using British English in both spelling and grammar.

Example - I saw a girl in a red dress sipping her martini beside the bar. I'd seen her several times before, but had never spoken to her. However, tonight would be different."

(Native Brit and teacher of English as a Second Language)

 

[Britva415]

"Frame" the section so that it makes grammatical sense to use simple past when telling the section within the frame. Past-perfect could be used to construct and conclude the frame, but it's not the only way. Asterisks are also... a way, I suppose, but a narrative frame is better.

Long strings of had-hads and had-dones and had-saids are unpleasant to read.

 

[Voboy]

"Frame" the section so that it makes grammatical sense to use simple past when telling the section within the frame. Past-perfect could be used to construct and conclude the frame, but it's not the only way. Asterisks are also... a way, I suppose, but a narrative frame is better.

Long strings of had-hads and had-dones and had-saids are unpleasant to read.

I've done this before, and very profitably, but I always feel strangely as though it's cheating somehow. I know that makes no sense.

In my mind, if I "should" be using past-perfect, then I try to. It's a good inducement to keep flashbacks to a minimum in my more recent writing. So I guess my reply, OP, is...

1. Use past-perfect, but sparingly. No more than 4-500 words at a time.
2. Use the framing device a few others have suggested, bracketing a section of past simple between bookends of past-perfect.

 

[StopT]

British English uses Past Perfect (and all perfect tenses generally) a lot more than American English.

The Past Perfect tenses (simple and continuous) have their uses, to make timelines clear. If something happened before the main storypoint you are in, I'd recommend using the past perfect IF you are using British English in both spelling and grammar.

Example - I saw a girl in a red dress sipping her martini beside the bar. I'd seen her several times before, but had never spoken to her. However, tonight would be different."

(Native Brit and teacher of English as a Second Language)

I'm not sure if British English matters here. I've specifically mentioned including long passages of background story mixed with the main storyline. A few sentences or even a full paragraph or two with the past perfect shouldn't be a problem.

Usually, I prefer to share background stories through dialogue---setting up a meeting between the characters and letting them spill their hearts out. It's the easiest method to handle, but sometimes it doesn't fit the plot, and you need to tell it as an inside story.

As others have mentioned, using chapter breaks is probably the best way to go.

 

[SimonDoom]

British English uses Past Perfect (and all perfect tenses generally) a lot more than American English.

The Past Perfect tenses (simple and continuous) have their uses, to make timelines clear. If something happened before the main storypoint you are in, I'd recommend using the past perfect IF you are using British English in both spelling and grammar.

Example - I saw a girl in a red dress sipping her martini beside the bar. I'd seen her several times before, but had never spoken to her. However, tonight would be different."

(Native Brit and teacher of English as a Second Language)

I'm an American and I would use past perfect as well in the example you gave. I think the issue here is its use in longer passages. In longer passages, the repetitive use of "had" gets tedious and awkward. Nobody wants to read an entire chapter in past perfect even if its use is grammatically correct.

 

[Britva415]

I always feel strangely as though it's cheating somehow. I know that makes no sense.

In my mind, if I "should" be using past-perfect, then I try to.

Well, it's two different stories. They can both be told in simple-past if the context has been established with the right frame.

 

[TheOtherTeacher]

I think you already know how you want to write it, and I think that's the simple answer. Write how you think the story works best in your writing voice.

My work has a lot of past perfect, but that's just me. And I would try to break up the parts as much as possible.

Think about your story's "now". Use past simple for that time period, and past perfect for parts before that.

But if you are writing a story WITHIN the story, that "now" has changed. So make it clear that you have changed story "now" in the best way for you

(I might do "let me tell you the time your auntie Susan and I...."
-------
and start a new paragraph.)

This new "Now" uses past simple.

Does that make sense?

 

[Erodicus]

Extensive use of the past perfect tense within a simple past narrative can disrupt the flow and be rather irksome.

What do you do when faced with lengthy passages like flashbacks or background stories detailing events predating the main timeline?

1. Maintain the perfect tense regardless of length.
2. Switch to the simple tense to ensure smooth narrative flow.
3. Switch to the simple tense, but separate the passage with asterisks.

Two students had each written a sentence.
Bill's sentence was, "The man had lunch."
George's sentence was "The man had had lunch."

So George, where Bill had had "had," had had "had had." "Had had" had had the teacher's approval.

 

[ElectricBlue]

In longer passages, the repetitive use of "had" gets tedious and awkward. Nobody wants to read an entire chapter in past perfect even if its use is grammatically correct.

Agree this - it quickly gets a sense of distance and remoteness. Very formal writers seem to use past perfect more often, presumably because they think it's "correct" - which it might be, but not at the expense of immediacy. Those writers also tend towards passive rather than active. It's as if they're afraid of the power of the erotic, and want to step back from it.

 

[GrushaVashnadze]

What do you do when faced with lengthy passages like flashbacks or background stories detailing events predating the main timeline?

1. Maintain the perfect tense regardless of length.
2. Switch to the simple tense to ensure smooth narrative flow.
3. Switch to the simple tense, but separate the passage with asterisks.

I have done both 1 & 3 (kind of):

In Metamorphoses ch. 4, where the flashbacks are intermittent, I kept them in the past perfect, interspersed within the main simple past narrative.

In Young Cunts Act 4, where the flashbacks are longer, I transitioned to simple past, but put them in italics.

I think, on balance, that the latter was easier to handle (and possibly to read), even if a bit of a cop-out. Have a look at tell me what you think...

 

[intim8]

I transitioned to simple past, but put them in italics.

I'm old school. If you can't do it on a typewriter, it doesn't belong in prose

Are there conventions for breaking things into sections and things like this? I use === for a hard break, like a new chapter or at least an entirely different scene/setting. I've seen *** for that as well, and it works. I somethimes use --- for softer breaks. And I've used ~~~ for a dream sequence, especially if the transition is unclear (as it often is in real life).

But for flashbacks, I still prefer indicating it with grammar. Perfect to introduce it, then simple in the body if it is more than a sentence or two, and a more or less explicit return to the current timeline.