Parenting

[sophia jane]

I know some of you are parents. And of course, all of us had parents. And I'm in need of some help.
My oldest is 8, a really good kid over all. Super smart, friendly, polite. But he keeps getting in trouble at school. He has some control/impulse probelms but is not ADHD or anything, just a boy who doesn't listen.
It's an ongoing problem and we've dealt with it okay in the past. But his new teacher is less than happy with him (understandably). Today he was sent to the office for fighting. He wasn't actually fighting- he was tickling someone, who then elbowed him to get him off, kids told, etc etc. However, he'd been told not to tickle, has been told repeatedly to keep his hands to himself.
And yet, here we are.

I'm at a loss. I'm more or less on my own for discipline, and I could use some thoughts/ideas. We've taken things away, made him write lines, made him write an essay, an apology to his teacher, etc (a few weeks ago his teacher sent home a really nasty note.)
We're good, concerned parents. He's a good kid. And yet, here we are.

Help!!!

 

[cloudy]

I know some of you are parents. And of course, all of us had parents. And I'm in need of some help.
My oldest is 8, a really good kid over all. Super smart, friendly, polite. But he keeps getting in trouble at school. He has some control/impulse probelms but is not ADHD or anything, just a boy who doesn't listen.
It's an ongoing problem and we've dealt with it okay in the past. But his new teacher is less than happy with him (understandably). Today he was sent to the office for fighting. He wasn't actually fighting- he was tickling someone, who then elbowed him to get him off, kids told, etc etc. However, he'd been told not to tickle, has been told repeatedly to keep his hands to himself.
And yet, here we are.

I'm at a loss. I'm more or less on my own for discipline, and I could use some thoughts/ideas. We've taken things away, made him write lines, made him write an essay, an apology to his teacher, etc (a few weeks ago his teacher sent home a really nasty note.)
We're good, concerned parents. He's a good kid. And yet, here we are.

Help!!!

What makes him tick? What does he value above everything else?

Maybe a reward system could be set up: a priviledge given for so many days with good behavior at school, or a treat such as a movie night, etc.

It's tough, I know, and I sympathize.

I wonder, though, what the cause is, you know? I'm quite sure he gets plenty of attention at home, but is he getting enough at school?

 

[impressive]

I wonder, though, what the cause is, you know?

That's the key. All behavior is a form of communication. What is his saying? What is its FUNCTION?

At its most basic, the function of behavior is either: (a) to get more of something pleasant; or (b) to get less of something unpleasant.

Unfortunately, the behavior might not manifest itself in the same environment as the desired outcome.

It's never easy, is it?

 

[cloudy]

That's the key. All behavior is a form of communication. What is his saying? What is its FUNCTION?

At its most basic, the function of behavior is either: (a) to get more of something pleasant; or (b) to get less of something unpleasant.

Unfortunately, the behavior might not manifest itself in the same environment as the desired outcome.

It's never easy, is it?

no, it isn't. The rewards are well worth it, even though I want to pinch their little heads off occasionally.

 

[logophile]

You could pick a specific privilege and make it dependent on how his school day goes. Something he does every day - video games or a specific television.
Every day that he comes home without getting in trouble, he's allowed to do it.
Every day there's a problem, he isn't.
Just be very matter of fact about it.

I'm with Imp, too, in finding out what's lacking at school that's making him misbehave. It may not be something you can do anything about. But you'll want to know what it is, nonetheless.

Good luck, my love.

 

[sophia jane]

Well, obviously he could be acting out about his dad not being around, but I think that's too easy an excuse.
He does get attention at home, special time with me, etc. I can't say how it works in his class. I suspect he's probably a bit bored. He's always been in gifted, but there's not really a gifted program here, so there's obviously less challenge for him.

We've used rewards before, when he was younger but then he largely improved so we did away with it, expecting him to behave at school because he was supposed to. But since the move, his behavior has gone downhill. His getting sent to the office today was just a capper.
Maybe after his weekend of punishment is over, I'll go back to some kind of reward system.


Sometimes I hate being a single parent.

 

[logophile]

Sometimes I hate being a single parent.

Love you.

 

[impressive]

Well, obviously he could be acting out about his dad not being around, but I think that's too easy an excuse.
He does get attention at home, special time with me, etc. I can't say how it works in his class. I suspect he's probably a bit bored. He's always been in gifted, but there's not really a gifted program here, so there's obviously less challenge for him.

We've used rewards before, when he was younger but then he largely improved so we did away with it, expecting him to behave at school because he was supposed to. But since the move, his behavior has gone downhill. His getting sent to the office today was just a capper.
Maybe after his weekend of punishment is over, I'll go back to some kind of reward system.


Sometimes I hate being a single parent.

Positive reinforcement of good behavior is (per education-based research) more effective a motivator than negative/punitive reinforcement of bad behavior.

 

[lil_elvis]

I'm with Imp, too, in finding out what's lacking at school that's making him misbehave. It may not be something you can do anything about. But you'll want to know what it is, nonetheless.

Good luck, my love.

Just my $.02 - the mrs. cousin was a 'problem' kid in school - class clown, acting up, getting in trouble. Problem was that he was bored stiff with school. They kicked him up a grade and the problem stopped.

 

[kendo1]

Hi SJ

I suspect the move and other circumstances! are to blame for his behaviour.

He is, maybe, getting the attention he requires through his behaviour.
It does not matter what the 'attention' , good or bad, is to a child, as long as they get it.

It sounds like the school is not dealing with the problem in the correct way for your son. Is the teacher experienced?


The normal way to counteract this, as you no doubt know, is to ignore it.

Think of a child having a tantrum - ignore the tantrum and the behaviour eventually stops.

We used to use the 'Screaming Room' for our youngest when she misbehaved.
Life carried on as normal after the screaming stopped, however long it took-
no rewards and no punishments, just family time. It was just as hard on us!

Another option- time consuming, I know- is channelling his energy into sport.
One of those things a parent has to do.

Parenting is hard. Good luck and best wishes to you.

Ken

 

[BlackShanglan]

I've sent on a PM. I hope it's of some help.

I think that the idea of a reward system is good as far as it goes. That is, it's good to reward positive behavior. However, sometimes children need some extra help in working out how to get to that positive behavior. Modelling, talking, and examining choices and options can help.

Shanglan

 

[Wildcard Ky]

You say he's not ADHD, but it sounds like ADD is a possibility. A kid doesn't have to be hyper to have ADD.

I'm not the best to explain, but here goes my attempt: ADD usually shows itself by an inability to focus, stay on task, very short attention span, and impulsive actions to do what you want to do. It's not that the child wants to be bad or disobey rules, it's simply that they react to an urge to do something.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

I wouldn't call myself gifted, but the skill of multi-tasking hit me at about age 4. Thus, my teachers marked unsatisfactory on my behavior every time report cards went out. My Mom finally got tired of it and scheduled a parent-teacher conference. Turns out that I wasn't behaving badly, but because I was able to absorb the entire lesson while simultaneously having a conversation with the kid in the next desk that the teacher wasn't happy. Evidently I was distracting others and their grades sucked. Go figgah.

Anyhow, the teacher and my folks came up with a monthly calendar. It was empty but for the date and days. Each day the teacher would stamp a happy face or a frowny face inside the box for the corresponding day. At the end of the week, if I had all smiley faces I'd get to go out to ice cream or we'd make a family trip to the park or my Mom would schedule a craft/project for us to do. Basically, I was rewarded. If I screwed up and got frowny faces there was no reward and often something distasteful like spending part of Saturday cleaning my room or some such. They only used that system for one year and by the end of the year I was 'conditioned' toward good behavior (or keeping my damn mouth shut) and all was well.

Good luck. It's likely the boy's just a little too capable.

~lucky

Sidenote: The worst punishment I could ever receive as a child was the phrase, "I'm disappointed in you."

 

[Alessia Brio]

Sidenote: The worst punishment I could ever receive as a child was the phrase, "I'm disappointed in you."

Very effective here, too.

 

[logophile]

Very effective here, too.

Still makes me cry, to this day.

 

[Alessia Brio]

Still makes me cry, to this day.

The converse (I'm so proud of you!) is equally effective from the positive standpoint.

 

[sophia jane]

I'm not the best to explain, but here goes my attempt: ADD usually shows itself by an inability to focus, stay on task, very short attention span, and impulsive actions to do what you want to do. It's not that the child wants to be bad or disobey rules, it's simply that they react to an urge to do something.

The only of those he has trouble with is the impulsiveness. He's able to sit and do any number of tasks and stay on task with no issue. Hell the kid has read all of the Harry Potter books and he's eight. Also had teachers tell me that it's not ADD- it's immaturity.

I wouldn't call myself gifted, but the skill of multi-tasking hit me at about age 4. Thus, my teachers marked unsatisfactory on my behavior every time report cards went out. My Mom finally got tired of it and scheduled a parent-teacher conference. Turns out that I wasn't behaving badly, but because I was able to absorb the entire lesson while simultaneously having a conversation with the kid in the next desk that the teacher wasn't happy. Evidently I was distracting others and their grades sucked. Go figgah.

Anyhow, the teacher and my folks came up with a monthly calendar. It was empty but for the date and days. Each day the teacher would stamp a happy face or a frowny face inside the box for the corresponding day. At the end of the week, if I had all smiley faces I'd get to go out to ice cream or we'd make a family trip to the park or my Mom would schedule a craft/project for us to do. Basically, I was rewarded. If I screwed up and got frowny faces there was no reward and often something distasteful like spending part of Saturday cleaning my room or some such. They only used that system for one year and by the end of the year I was 'conditioned' toward good behavior (or keeping my damn mouth shut) and all was well.

Good luck. It's likely the boy's just a little too capable.

~lucky

Sidenote: The worst punishment I could ever receive as a child was the phrase, "I'm disappointed in you."

Lucky- this is a great post, and very close to what's going on, I think. He continually gets high marks on all his work, so his chattiness and play doesn't interfere at all with him doing his work. He's just bothering others. Today, evidently he and a friend were horsing around and went too far.
Fwiw, a few weeks ago teacher sent home a note that he'd been having problems, etc and she was fed up. It was literally the first time I'd heard anything from her about a problem and I was, quite rightly, surprised. I replied with a long note asking for a calendar like you mentioned. According to my son, she's been keeping the calendar; I just haven't seen it. I'll be meeting with her soon in conference and we'll see what happens. I suspect it's a matter of impulse control problems with him and a partial problem with her not handling things promptly.

As far as the disappointment line- already been said.

Thanks everyone.

 

[entitled]

Lucky- this is a great post, and very close to what's going on, I think. He continually gets high marks on all his work, so his chattiness and play doesn't interfere at all with him doing his work. He's just bothering others. Today, evidently he and a friend were horsing around and went too far.
Fwiw, a few weeks ago teacher sent home a note that he'd been having problems, etc and she was fed up. It was literally the first time I'd heard anything from her about a problem and I was, quite rightly, surprised. I replied with a long note asking for a calendar like you mentioned. According to my son, she's been keeping the calendar; I just haven't seen it. I'll be meeting with her soon in conference and we'll see what happens. I suspect it's a matter of impulse control problems with him and a partial problem with her not handling things promptly.

As far as the disappointment line- already been said.

Thanks everyone.

They've all said it except if his teacher continues her lack of communication, and you've tried to talk to her about it a number of times, i would suggest setting a conference with the principal.

 

[kendo1]

ent!

Happy Snoopy Dance

 

[entitled]

ent!

Happy Snoopy Dance

*cackles*

i love it!!

 

[rgraham666]

Positive reinforcement of good behavior is (per education-based research) more effective a motivator than negative/punitive reinforcement of bad behavior.

That was a statement my dad and teachers had never heard. And wouldn't have believed if they did.

 

[sophia jane]

Son and I have discussed some rewards he feels really good about; of course his reaction was "I have to behave for a whole week!?" lol. My reply: "Isn't that what you're supposed to do?"
Am working on some ideas sent in pm (thanks again Shang), and trying to decide how I want to approach the teacher.

Thanks for all your suggestions and support. Y'all are very much my soundingboard on pretty much everything.

 

[Guest]

I'm curious.

Is there a specific time in the day or a specific class in which he has trouble focusing?

He sounds like a strong reader; why couldn't he go up to the 3rd or 4th grade class for reading time? Challenge his little butt.

What about math? Bump him a grade for this group, too.

If he tested gifted, then his math and reading scores should be quite high. And he does sound bored. Horribly bored. And many gifted kids are emotionally immature - goes with the territory.

Has he been tested for ADHD by a psych? I don't trust pediatricians for this type of diagnosis.

I would definitely get the principal in on this, and perhaps the school counselor, too. The teacher who didn't inform you of this ongoing situation needs a swift kick. They need to know you are certainly a caring parent and won't allow your son to get away with misbehaving, but also that you feel there is more the school could be doing to help your son cope.

Hang in there.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

I know ADHD/ADD seems a natural course of inquiry for situations like these, but honestly it sounds like the teacher is overworked/underpaid/frazzled with anything that doesn't go her way and just not coping well in general. My best friend is an elementary school teacher and the bottom line is ... kids will be kids. They do and say the darndest things. Often times teachers just don't have the time/resources to handle anything out of the 'perfect' paradigm and that's where situations begin. I think she needs to go back to her books and spend a little extra time on diversion and redirection. What the fuck?

 

[sophia jane]

I'm curious.

Is there a specific time in the day or a specific class in which he has trouble focusing?

He sounds like a strong reader; why couldn't he go up to the 3rd or 4th grade class for reading time? Challenge his little butt.

What about math? Bump him a grade for this group, too.

If he tested gifted, then his math and reading scores should be quite high. And he does sound bored. Horribly bored. And many gifted kids are emotionally immature - goes with the territory.

Has he been tested for ADHD by a psych? I don't trust pediatricians for this type of diagnosis.

I would definitely get the principal in on this, and perhaps the school counselor, too. The teacher who didn't inform you of this ongoing situation needs a swift kick. They need to know you are certainly a caring parent and won't allow your son to get away with misbehaving, but also that you feel there is more the school could be doing to help your son cope.

Hang in there.

It's not a specific time of day, unfortunately. Yes, his scores are off the chart for reading and math. He's in third grade; in second grade, he was reading 5/6/7 grade level books with no problem and total understanding. The move put him in a school a year behind in math, which is tough on him because he's repeating all the math he learned last year. That said, he's getting more social studies stuff now which is helping hold his interest.

He's never been officially tested because he's never shown enough of the signs. He really is able to focus, etc when he wants to. It's just the rest of the time!
Bumping up to next grade for some subjects is impossible because 4/5 is a different school building. But I'm definitely planning to ask his teacher to provide him with some more challenging work. It's rough; we moved to a small, rural district. It's not ideal for him at all. But in other ways, it is- it's alot easier for him to be a kid here.

Oh! And thanks.