Paramilitary training, should it be made illegal?

[KillerMuffin]

Does anyone truly need paramilitary training? No, actually, no one truly needs paramilitary training. No matter how much down home fun it may be. But should we illegalize it?

New Jersey~New York recently enacted laws which have since been picked up by 24 other states that "would prohibit systematic instruction in exercises comparable to military training, including the use of advanced weaponry, for the purpose of fostering civil disorder."

How do you define intent? A militia, which is the groups that these laws are being enacted against, is generally going to have some paramilitary training involved. Some militias are going to commit domestic terrorism, some of them just want to hang out in their hidey-holes in Idaho and generally be left the heck alone.

Do you think these laws would help prevent domestic terrorism? Or do you think they are unnecessary? Do you think that the people who engage in paramilitary training, in general are a threat, or are certain freakjobs, such as Timothy McVeigh, a threat? Would you feel safer from domestic terrorists if people weren't allowed to have paramilitary training?

 

[SexyThang]

Whoa. This requires thought and a modicum of intelligence to answer that question. I'll give it a shot though.

They can enact all the laws they want, but it's not going to stop it. There will always be the Paramilitary groups, the Klan groups. Laws don't stop it, they just encourage them to go underground. While I don't agree with a lot of the principals and beliefs of the more radical groups, I can't help but think that if they were monitored and regulated, as opposed to being outlawed completely, there may be some control.

In other words, I'd rather KNOW my enemies and their whereabouts than not know.

Not everyone that engages in paramilitary training is a freak show like McVeigh. Some just enjoy the training, the teamwork, the whole concept. Then you have the ones that have the intelligence of navel lint that wanna be a "somebody".

I think Terrorism in any form in scary in it's own way. But it's a fact of life and been around in one way or another for as long as I can remember. It may be becoming widerspread due to economic and social dissatisfaction, and of course, the McVeigh's.

 

[Problem Child]

How do you define paramilitary training?

Is it paramilitary training if someone puts on fatigues and runs around in their backyard jumping over obstacles?

What if they download an army manual off the web and teach their beer-drinking buddies how to set up an ambush, or how to wire a bomb?

If they decide to hang up a Nazi flag in the basement is that a sure signal that they are fixin' to start planning the overthrow of the government?

We already have laws against posessing machineguns, hand grenades, flamethrowers, etc. We have conspiracy laws.

I don't see how passing a law about what kind of "training" somebody can participate in can be defined or enforced. As long as a group is not breaking any weapons laws, or any laws at all for that matter, I don't see how it's possible to limit what they want to train for. Their rights to freely assemble and talk, and/or read about whatever they wish are firmly protected under the first amendment.

These groups obviously need to be kept track of, and we have plenty of government agencies that are doing just that.

The problem with living in a society as free as ours is that everyone gets the same rights and freedoms...even the wackos and racists and haters. That's the draw back of having individual liberties...but would you want to give up yours to limit theirs?

 

[OUTSIDER]

Does that mean the boy scouts are now illegal too....Cause it seems to me that a lot of stuff they do could be called paramilitary training.

Time to use common sense for a change I think.

 

[John_Galt]

It seems that your premise is that knowledge of military weapons and tactics makes people dangerous. I have a problem with that thinking.

If paramilitary training is bad because it's bad to know about military weapons, then allowing people with military training back into the public with that training is equally bad. Do we keep people in the military for life? Do we somehow erase their memory when they get out?

Knowledge isn't dangerous. Only applying that knowledge to violate the rights of others is bad. Punish the crimes, don't punish law abiding people for knowing how to defend themseslves

 

[Andra_Jenny]

What part is it about freedom that people just do not understand?

Voltaire: I disagree with you but I will defend you right to do that to the death!
Liberal America: I disagree with you and I am going to find a few other people who do, raise some money, buy some politicians, demonstrate, riot, and ensure that you cannot do that anymore.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

I must admit to not keeping up with this issue......

And although I'm former military - and reasonably proud of it - and - fully knowing that there is bad shit going down out there (everywhere) that would prompt non-military types to want to band together and foster this type of training - and yet still - mostly thinking that this sort of training should probably not be left in the hands of non-sanctioned, possible radicals, with a less than rational grip on their own reality.........

I don't see how state or federal governing bodies can enact laws against this sort of thing. I can see how they can make it hard on them to operate - but not blatantly enact a law that says - YOU CAN'T DO THIS AT ALL!

That law - I think - would be unconstitutional. I think.

 

[rambling man]

Those laws would actually make the Boy Scouts illegal. They were started by an Englishman at the end of the nineteenth century to prepare boys for military roles and much of what they teach still seems applicable when looked at in a certain way.

Those laws won't stand up. What is defined as military training is pretty vague. Also it restricts the freedom of people to do what they want without bothering other people. The militia movement has faded to nearly nothign since Oklahoma City, too. The government, unless there is a clear and present danger, has no right to keep thirty, forty and fifty year old men from playing G.I. Joe so long as it does not hurt others.

 

[Andra_Jenny]

My gawd,
If boys want to out in the woods and play guns, big deal. I know black powder enthusiasts, "Ted Nuget" style hunters, civil war enactors, people who like to play little house on the prarie, people who go to the lake on weekends, who says the only way to enjoy the outdoors is by not going there to preserve the wilderness?
FREEDOM!