"Paper Tiger": New Administration in DC

[amicus]

Lifted the phrase from former Ambassador Bolton, that the U.S., has capitulated to totalitarianism in the Middle East and Asia.

Describing America as, "arrogant, dismissive, and derisive..." the new President further weakened the perception of the United States by announcing cuts in the Defense budget.

It was also indicative of future failures to state that, "The United States is not and will never be at War with Islam"

In Asia, the North Koreans launched an intercontinental ballistic missile that crossed over Japan and gave indications that it could reach the United States.

The United Nations quivered and turned to Jelly as it usually does in the face of threatened aggression.

Euro nations, NATO, basically rejected the new Presidents call for troops in the Middle East and will continue to let the US bear the human burden of fighting Islamic Terrorism.

While the main stream media are, 'cooing' in ecstasy and the Euro's express adoration for the most part, some nations, Germany in particular, describe the new President as weak and clueless about the real world.

Many conservative spokesmen are interpreting the administrations foreign policy as 'inviting' of further terrorist attacks and expansion of Islamic Fundamentalism throughout the world.

We shall see...shall we not?

Amicus...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I think its good. The sooner Obama, the Usual Suspects, and the Special Needs Team push this nation into crisis, the sooner we can fix it.

 

[sr71plt]

Ambassador Bolton was probably the worst excuse for a diplomatic the Bush administration unleashed on the world. Set us back with even our allies a good decade.

Wait no, Paul Wolfowitz was just as much a disaster.

 

[S-Des]

Set us back with even our allies a good decade.

I love when people express opinions as facts. Would you like to site the "ally" that we've been set back with, and when they said they liked us only as much as they had 10 years before? Then again, I remember you saying that it was obvious General Patraeus was lying when he testified before Congress (that violence in Iraq was dropping), so....I guess I'll consider the source.

A lot of people didn't like Bolton, but I don't see us worrying about the diplomats put forth by other countries (how many of us can name more than 1?). Seriously, the idea that a diplomat could affect our foreign relations infinitely more than the President or Congress is so silly it's mind-boggling.

As to the point of Ami's thread, I'm not an Obama fan and have never been one (as a Chicago resident, I've seen WAY too much of his crap to trust anything he said during the election). That said, I'm not one of these BDS sufferers...except on the Right instead (actually I'm in the middle more than anything), who will spend the next 4-8 years attacking everything the guy does. I think he's made some silly mistakes, but also does a nice job of putting a more compassionate face on the American people in the eyes of the world. I don't think anything he's done so far is harmful, and some of it may pay off. Mostly I think it's the typical talk politicians do, and will have little real effect on anything.

It was interesting to see some fairly striking criticism of his visit in some foreign newspapers. I'm sure it's nothing compared to what Bush would have elicited, so I guess it's a win by default. Then again, I think the Left is going to realize that there are a lot of people who hate us who aren't going to change their opinion one iota just because we have someone willing to be more "diplomatic" with the rest of the world.

 

[JamesSD]

Lifted the phrase from former Ambassador Bolton, that the U.S., has capitulated to totalitarianism in the Middle East and Asia.

Describing America as, "arrogant, dismissive, and derisive..." the new President further weakened the perception of the United States by announcing cuts in the Defense budget.

It was also indicative of future failures to state that, "The United States is not and will never be at War with Islam"

In Asia, the North Koreans launched an intercontinental ballistic missile that crossed over Japan and gave indications that it could reach the United States.

The United Nations quivered and turned to Jelly as it usually does in the face of threatened aggression.

Euro nations, NATO, basically rejected the new Presidents call for troops in the Middle East and will continue to let the US bear the human burden of fighting Islamic Terrorism.

While the main stream media are, 'cooing' in ecstasy and the Euro's express adoration for the most part, some nations, Germany in particular, describe the new President as weak and clueless about the real world.

Many conservative spokesmen are interpreting the administrations foreign policy as 'inviting' of further terrorist attacks and expansion of Islamic Fundamentalism throughout the world.

We shall see...shall we not?

First off, John R. Bolton was never confirmed by the Senate, and as such is not officially an Ambassador. You might correctly get away with calling him ambassador (no capitalization). "Though Bolton supported the Vietnam War, he enlisted in the Maryland Army National Guard rather than fight in Vietnam." So, he's a neocon Chickenhawk. Regardless of my own personal distaste for the man, let's pick apart the posted arguements for fun.

The policies of GW Bush were "arrogant, dismissive and derisive". He was speaking about past policies, not America. Cuts to the defense budget are fiscally prudent during recessions.

It sounds like you would mock Europe and treat them as inferiors, then ask them for help in fighting our wars?

"The United States is not and will never be at War with Islam". You seriously have a problem with this statement? Seriously? You want us to attack and invade Saudi Arabia and Turkey? Nations don't fight wars against religions.

The failed North Korean missile launch has left an egg on their faces. America isn't the World Police, it is China and Japan's job to pressure North Korea.

I look forward to eight to twelve years of peace and prosperity, although a senile old man sitting in a diaper full of his own poop would have been better than the past eight years of failure.

 

[sr71plt]

I love when people express opinions as facts. Would you like to site the "ally" that we've been set back with, and when they said they liked us only as much as they had 10 years before? Then again, I remember you saying that it was obvious General Patraeus was lying when he testified before Congress (that violence in Iraq was dropping), so....I guess I'll consider the source.

A lot of people didn't like Bolton, but I don't see us worrying about the diplomats put forth by other countries (how many of us can name more than 1?). Seriously, the idea that a diplomat could affect our foreign relations infinitely more than the President or Congress is so silly it's mind-boggling.

I guess you weren't doing any reading while Bolton was our UN ambassador. It wasn't just the activities of Bolton himself--it was the knowledge that the Bush administration knew exactly what Bolton stood for when they made the appointment. It was a slap in the face to other countries--especially those trying to support us.

And Paul Wolfowitz. Were you on another planet when he was screwing the World Bank (and trying to promote the World Bank employee he was screwing)?

Don't mind if you don't believe it; I don't waste my time digging up documentation for such things on Interent chat rooms. If you didn't follow the events at the time, you can look it up yourself. 'Cause there's nothing to be gained to convince you.

I think General Patraeus is the cat's pajamas. Interesting that you would assume that I just follow some sort of "liberal" formula on who I think is an effective representative of the United States and who isn't. Been taking white/black absolutist lessons from Amicus?

 

[S-Des]

I guess you weren't doing any reading while Bolton was our UN ambassador. It wasn't just the activities of Bolton himself--it was the knowledge that the Bush administration knew exactly what Bolton stood for when they made the appointment. It was a slap in the face to other countries--especially those trying to support us.

OK, name the country who's relations have been, "Set back at least a decade." Italy? France? England? Ireland? Japan? China? Russia? Saudi Arabia? All of them....really? A decade? Not because of Bush, mind you, but because of Bolton's appointment. I read plenty of papers, and know of countries who were quite fond of Bolton because of the strident positions he took (even if it was a minority of them)...in fact, I was intimately involved with citizens of one. I was specifically pointing out your sweeping generalization that couldn't possibly be corroborated, no matter how much time you spent, "Digging up documentation."

I'm not sure about "cat's pajamas," but when Patraeus made his appearance, this board was full of unbelievably ignorant, uninformed opinions about his dishonesty, and you said that "Of course he's lying," then defended him as a soldier. It turns out that not only was he being honest, he was understating the improvement of the situation. Of course I knew that because I had been following a variety of sources that were all saying the same thing, but here in Lit-land, anyone who defended him was called an idiot or Bush-lover. It convinced me to not bother to engage in political discussion here because of the sheer level of pointlessness.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Hey there,

The election was last November.....Obama won. A decisive mandate over those who were satisfied with the status quo......
He's now President Barak Obama.....(Doesn't it make ya proud to say that? It does for me, but I'm a child of the sixties....)
Repeat: The election was months ago and he's rolled up his sleeves to take on the biggest task ever to face an incoming President. He's done damned well so far and will continue to work for American People.....
It's interesting that those without any ideas or solutions keep yipping like little dogs at his heels.
Little annoying dogs at his heels......

 

[sr71plt]

I'm not sure about "cat's pajamas," but when Patraeus made his appearance, this board was full of unbelievably ignorant, uninformed opinions about his dishonesty, and you said that "Of course he's lying," then defended him as a soldier. It turns out that not only was he being honest, he was understating the improvement of the situation. Of course I knew that because I had been following a variety of sources that were all saying the same thing, but here in Lit-land, anyone who defended him was called an idiot or Bush-lover. It convinced me to not bother to engage in political discussion here because of the sheer level of pointlessness.

Excuse me. I most certainly never posted any such thing about Patraeus. I'll be charitable and assume you just have a faulty memory on that. Or are you a student of Amicus's in making unfounded assertions as well?

As far as countries Bolton undermined the United States with, Germany, Turkey, and Egypt, most importantly at the time (Obama's in Turkey now trying to fix that one up so that we have an exit lane for our troops in Iraq. We'll also need Germany back on board for that, but they will be easier, because Turkey will make more unpalitable demands)--and a whole raft of States after that, especially the breakoff Soviet states. Any nation that might have leaned our direction in the UN on a given issue had the insult of the Bolton appointment to put on the debit side before deciding what to do. Our delegation there was working overtime just trying to get their counterparts to answer their phones. It was a hell of a time to be working there and trying to get any business done.

(Of course you are probably one of those not-too-deep-thinkers who think nothing is going on in state-to-state affairs at the UN just because you think the Assembly sessions are the whole ball of wax there. It's the primary place where we initiate deals with other countries, Bubba.) I don't have to document it for you for it to be true. If it's inconvenient for you to believe it, that's your problem. Your doubt doesn't affect me (or much of anything else, truth be known).

But you're off the reservation with that assertion of what I've ever said about Patraeus.

 

[ishtat]

At some point President Obama will have to decide whether he wants to be Jimmy Carter 2 - or not!

I suppose he could invade Grenada.

But it's a bit early to write him off yet.

 

[DesertPirate]

At some point President Obama will have to decide whether he wants to be Jimmy Carter 2 - or not!

I suppose he could invade Grenada.

But it's a bit early to write him off yet.

No it's not.
Anyone who wants to apologise for us acting in our own self interest is stupid. There is not a single country on this planet that doesn't put it's self interest first, if they want to stay an independant country.

His foriegn policy of apology and appeasment is already Carter 2.

 

[oggbashan]

Euro nations, NATO, basically rejected the new Presidents call for troops in the Middle East and will continue to let the US bear the human burden of fighting Islamic Terrorism.

...

We shall see...shall we not?

Amicus...

You make so many points in this post that I have edited down to call you on one at least.

As a proportion of our total armed forces, the UK has as many committed to Iraq and Afghanistan as the US. Proportionally, nearly as many have been killed in action. Canada has committed more and suffered more deaths.

The UK has committed more troops to Afghanistan in direct response to President Obama's request. Other European and NATO countries are also considering their response. For some of them it isn't easy, for internal constitutional and political reasons, to commit more troops to NATO operations. It takes longer than a Presidential order.

Our news reports UK troops' deaths in Afghanistan daily whenever they occur.

So where is your claimed "rejection"?

Og

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

We got Bush TWICE because the Democrats offered Tweedle-Dee & Tweedle-Dum. The Republicans lost because they thought the Democrats were on to something with Gore & Kerry.

 

[Dragonlipz]

We got Bush TWICE because the Democrats offered Tweedle-Dee & Tweedle-Dum. The Republicans lost because they thought the Democrats were on to something with Gore & Kerry.

Correction:
It's not over till your brother counts the votes......

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Bush ran in 2004, too.

Gore lost in 2000 because he's full of himself and refused the counsel of his wsemen. They told him RECOUNT EVERY VOTE IN FLORIDA. But he insisted on recounts in only 4 counties. And the Supreme Count slapped him down because the recount in only 4 counties set a different standard, and the 14th Amendment says everyone plays by the same rules.

His people told him how to play and he refused to listen.

 

[amicus]

"A Failure for the new President, his 'fantasy foreign policy' was largely dismissed as accomplishing nothing." (News tonight) Paraphrased

In addition to that, the Russians said, "No!", the Chinese said, "No!", The North Koreans laughed and launched anyway. The United Nations is still to be heard from.

As if bowing and scraping, chastizing America, exhibiting oodles of charm and posturing a, 'kinder, gentler', America, the new President has basically withdrawn from the world's political scene.

One wonders who will step forth?

Hello, Red China!

Amicus...

 

[sr71plt]

"A Failure for the new President, his 'fantasy foreign policy' was largely dismissed as accomplishing nothing." (News tonight) Paraphrased

In addition to that, the Russians said, "No!", the Chinese said, "No!", The North Koreans laughed and launched anyway. The United Nations is still to be heard from.

As if bowing and scraping, chastizing America, exhibiting oodles of charm and posturing a, 'kinder, gentler', America, the new President has basically withdrawn from the world's political scene.

One wonders who will step forth?

Hello, Red China!

Amicus...

Oh, my gosh. I think Amicus is close to making his all-important prognostication for the next presidential election.

 

[Guest]

"A Failure for the new President, his 'fantasy foreign policy' was largely dismissed as accomplishing nothing." (News tonight) Paraphrased

In addition to that, the Russians said, "No!", the Chinese said, "No!", The North Koreans laughed and launched anyway. The United Nations is still to be heard from.

As if bowing and scraping, chastizing America, exhibiting oodles of charm and posturing a, 'kinder, gentler', America, the new President has basically withdrawn from the world's political scene.

One wonders who will step forth?

Hello, Red China!

Amicus...

It was Bush who got us into Iraq in the first place. No one will ever convince me that the truth behind his decision to invade was anything more than an inadequate, frightened man looking for something that would allow him to appear presidential--whether he is aware of that or not.

And I think you've selectively forgotten that during the watch of the jingoistic, saber-rattling Shrub, North Korea detonated a nuclear device. Much good Bush's posturing and threats did, eh?

In eight painful years, Bush weakened this country on the world stage to a degree rarely seen before, and hopefully never again. His arm-twisting tactics when dealing with other nations were straight out of an old Western.

America is no longer in a position to dictate to the rest of the world as it did in the 60's and 70's. Yes, we're still a financial powerhouse but a number of other countries are developing at a pace that will soon challenge that dominance. We're well on our way to becoming a second-rate world power. It may not happen in your lifetime or mine, but it will happen.

And that means we'll need friends... because the cowboy mentality of statesmanship is dead. Some people just don't recognize that fact.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Bush ran in 2004, too.

Gore lost in 2000 because he's full of himself and refused the counsel of his wsemen. They told him RECOUNT EVERY VOTE IN FLORIDA. But he insisted on recounts in only 4 counties. And the Supreme Count slapped him down because the recount in only 4 counties set a different standard, and the 14th Amendment says everyone plays by the same rules.

His people told him how to play and he refused to listen.

Being an echo chamber for the Limbytes obviously doesn't bother you so you have no problem with your vote not being worth a damn.
What do you and yers do now that America has been taken back - BY THE PEOPLE! The election of Barak Hossein Obama is in the books. Like it or not, you have a black man whose mother was on welfare and who had to excell not by being rich and a Yale legacy but on merit, pure merit - blows the hell out of the elitist royal nonsense you republicants subscribe to......get over it.......He's a better leader than you deserve, but he is the leader of the free world......get over that!!!!

 

[Dragonlipz]

"A Failure for the new President, his 'fantasy foreign policy' was largely dismissed as accomplishing nothing." (News tonight) Paraphrased

In addition to that, the Russians said, "No!", the Chinese said, "No!", The North Koreans laughed and launched anyway. The United Nations is still to be heard from.

As if bowing and scraping, chastizing America, exhibiting oodles of charm and posturing a, 'kinder, gentler', America, the new President has basically withdrawn from the world's political scene.

One wonders who will step forth?

Hello, Red China!

Amicus...

You can kiss up to the Chinese all ya want, Amicus. Since when did the President of the USA give a rat's toenail about what the Russians or the Chinese say?
Are you indeed saying that he should give a damn what anyone else says?
You need new lenses for the new millenium, my man.
You saw a bowing and scraping while I saw:
A man. A real man. A man who has the courage and strength of his convictions. A man whose love of this country is shown by him extending his hand in an open gesture of true strength. He's not afraid of portrayed as weak, because he's not.
He knows that in order for this country to thrive and prosper, other countries must feel comfortable.
Are they playing him? For their sake I hope not. He has a mean jump shot......

 

[S-Des]

Correction:
It's not over till your brother counts the votes......

Then when the NY Times recounts all the votes, everyone who disagrees will just ignore the fact that it corroborated the results. It's so much more fun to say you were jobbed by the referees. Trust me, I see it every week with sports fans.....it's nothing new.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Then when the NY Times recounts all the votes, everyone who disagrees will just ignore the fact that it corroborated the results. It's so much more fun to say you were jobbed by the referees. Trust me, I see it every week with sports fans.....it's nothing new.

Your heading says it all: Comfortably numb.......

 

[amicus]

They are already naming this administration, "Carter Two", and with good reason. Hell, it could be worse, we could have the Clinton stink still in the White House, but then, crap, it is floating all over the globe anyway...


such a deal....

 

[S-Des]

Your heading says it all: Comfortably numb.......

When confronted with facts, insult. It's a solid philosophy.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Being an echo chamber for the Limbytes obviously doesn't bother you so you have no problem with your vote not being worth a damn.
What do you and yers do now that America has been taken back - BY THE PEOPLE! The election of Barak Hossein Obama is in the books. Like it or not, you have a black man whose mother was on welfare and who had to excell not by being rich and a Yale legacy but on merit, pure merit - blows the hell out of the elitist royal nonsense you republicants subscribe to......get over it.......He's a better leader than you deserve, but he is the leader of the free world......get over that!!!!

I created an Invisible Empire to deal with the Usual Suspects and Special Needs Teams. We pluck them from the Liberty Tree and store them in the Great Beyond.