Pagan Corner

[ExistentialLuv]

Witchcraft: The craft of the witch - magick, especially magick utilizing personal power in conjunction with the energies within stones, herbs, colors, and other natural objects. This belief system also has nothing to do with Satanism.

Thanx Pinnocio, I guess I am a Witch then, even though I do not use it for personal satisfaction. I use all those things plus more for the good of others that are in my life and around me. My favorite though is the crystals and stones.

 

[sharesher]

Merry Meet...

hey everyone, im currently studying wicca with thoughts in mind of pursuing it as my path....I find much in my studies that calls to me, whereas traditional christianity never has.. Just wanted to say "hi" and let you all know im here reading along..


And a special hi to pinnochio.... fellow canuck


Blessed Be.
Sher

 

[Pinnochio]

A fellow Canadian!! Group hugs!

Cheers
Pinnochio

 

[Image]

I found this written in one of my journals an figured it may help some of you with your questions.

Definitions of Wicca, Pagan & Witchcraft


Wicca: A modern Pagan religion with spiritual roots in the earliest expressions of reverence for nature. Some major identifying motifs are: reverence for both the Goddess and God; acceptance of reincarnation and magick; ritual observance of astronomical and agricultural phenomena; and the use of magickal circles for ritual purposes.

Wicce: Synonymous with Wicca. In some circles, Wicce is used for women and Wicca is used for men.

Witch: A practitioner of folk magick, particularly that kind relating to herbs, stones, colors, wells, rivers, etc. It is used by some Wiccans to describe themselves. This term has nothing to do with Satanism.

Witchcraft: The craft of the witch - magick, especially magick utilizing personal power in conjunction with the energies within stones, herbs, colors, and other natural objects. This belief system also has nothing to do with Satanism.

Pagan/Neo-Pagan/Paganism: General term for followers of Wicca and other magickal, shamanistic, and polytheistic Earth-based religions. Also used to refer to pre-Christian religious and Spiritual belief systems.


Cheers
Pinnochio

Well said... basic and to the point. I would add that it seems these days (as opposed to twenty years ago ), there is such an effort to differentiate groups or sects. Us humans are such labelers

As an example... yes most Wiccans will refer to themselves as witches, not for shock value but because they are proud to wear the title. But recently many people of other religions (Catholism, Judaism, etc) think they can call themselves witches also because they use magick. The reason is; magick is a practice not a religion so it doesn't necessarily interfere with the faith of their choice.

 

[ExistentialLuv]

As an example... yes most Wiccans will refer to themselves as witches, not for shock value but because they are proud to wear the title. But recently many people of other religions (Catholism, Judaism, etc) think they can call themselves witches also because they use magick. The reason is; magick is a practice not a religion so it doesn't necessarily interfere with the faith of their choice.

Was trully seeking your advice on the topic Image. You seem very wise and get straight to the point.

You said paganism does not follow religion, but wicce does. Can you give me a clearer aspect of this?

 

[Image]

Hi Image, you have me curious in paganism. I have been studing Fairy Wicca for about 5 years now along with the Native American beliefs. I am not into casting spells though, but believemore in the energy of all things and what doors that energy can open up for you. The only thing I really do not care for is that Wiccan is a religion. I do not want to belong to religion just have my own beliefs, principles, and spiritualism. I work a lot with crystals and stones (healer), can communicate with certain wildlife, and have a very uncanny sixth sense, I also believe in Karma (works so fast in my life that I dare do nothing wrong), and that there is no heaven and hell only good and bad. I worship the great godess Etain(moongodess) for the moon speaks to me. I would like to chat with you more on your principles and beliefs. I think paganism might be the path for me instead of Wicca.

By the way did you enjoy that last poem that I posted?

Thanx

Wiccan philosophy is probably closest to my ideals as well. And if you'd asked me ten years ago I would emphatically claim it as my path.... I'm not as sure anymore.

But the truth is that it is an organized religion... with all the benefits, which is good...

BUT, as much as it will try to tell you differently, there IS dogma AND heirarchies AND the back biting, etc that goes on in every organized religion too... afterall we are human

In the end we all do what feels right to us and utilize many avenues to reach the top of that mountain...

We will know when we've evolved enough to not need the artificiality of mass movements.

Peace

BTW - the Fairy Wicce you have studied... Victor Anderson?

 

[Pinnochio]

The unfortunate thing for me is that around my area I don't beleive there are many Pagan groups or whatnot. I would probably have to move to a city like Vancouver and I choose not to do that.

Cheers
Pinnochio

 

[Image]

The unfortunate thing for me is that around my area I don't beleive there are many Pagan groups or whatnot. I would probably have to move to a city like Vancouver and I choose not to do that.

Cheers
Pinnochio

In the words of The Goddess Herself...
If that which thou seekest, thou findest not within thee, then thou will never find it from without thee;

In other words, a group of pagans will not connect you to the Mother (God)... it is only within yourself will you find it... (and quite possibly they will hold you back)

But I do think the more you surround yourself with "like minded people" the easier the flow of information is...

But remember; knowledge and information is not the same as wisdom... that can only come from within

 

[ExistentialLuv]

Hi Image, so you like my poetry huh. Posted a few new ones today on the poem board.

Essoteric love and Erotic Dream they are still pending, the other two were posted here but are on the poem board for voting if you care to vote. I have many more but have to get them copied down for Pollyjean before I post them. They are all for her, seeing as I love her soooooo much.

 

[Mysty61]

Thanks so much for having this thread for thosel of us on the fringes. I have always thought of myself as a Pegan. I have also studied Wicca some. Wicca is just too much of a religion for me, but I do find many things which appeal to me. I find I can be a solo witch with my own rituals, and practices. I have developed a close friendship with a woman who is a very active and learned Witch. We have discussed our ideas, beliefs, and outlooks for a long time. It is just great to have this kind of friendship - I have learned and grown so much. It is just too bad everyone will not explore more of life, nature, and our roots. I beleive they would be much better humans. This site makes for good open discussion, and the opportunity to learn and share.

 

[Pinnochio]

My first story has been posted, enjoy. I do mention Pagan's briefly.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=105489

Hugz
Pinnochio

 

[ozraven]

Morning All... And what a beautiful Sunday morning in the mountains it is!

Oz, Paganism takes many different forms... Originally (and the root word, Pagani) simply meant country folk, then someone who was anything but Christian...

It is an Earth based spirituality. Deity manifests as male and female, not exclusively God... also Goddess. And though our views are polytheistic, they are just manifestations of the one. All gods are one god and all goddesses are one goddess.

The one common belief that all pagans share is the connectivity of all life in the universe. Paganism is not really a religion, (though Wicce is) it is more of a way of life. We are animists, in that everything, rocks, trees and all inanimate objects have life, different from ours perhaps, but non the less...

We revere nature in everything and try to live in harmony with the cycles of life, the changing of the seasons, etc. We are pantheists, in that we see deity in everything, ourselves included.

The Pagan lifestyle is one that tries to exist in harmony and respectfully with all life forms. With no harm to any being, whether it be animal, vegetable or mineral or on any plane. Living consciously and aware of yourself and your actions and the effects those actions have on everything else... and not just in this lifetime.

Anyway, too long... but that doesn't even scratch the surface. Hope I answered a bit of your question. Keep talking... we all learn from each other.

You see, even if one is agnostic or atheist that has nothing to do with living in tune with the natural world... whether you believe in a "God" or not you can't deny the concretness of the world around you, no matter how you believe it came into existence.

Peace all

My only exposure to "formal" religion is all RC, not exactly a free thinking bunch, and so I struggle a bit with the concept that any religion can include/embrace such a wide variety of beliefs under it's umbrella.

That fits with what you are saying in that paganism is a generalisation, in the same way the christianity is, although perhaps broader..........?

For all it's attractions, the "turn off" for me with regard to paganism and it's ancillaries is the overt weirdos who provide the public profile........

It is more likely my beliefs would be influenced in a more positive way by the "closet" believers, ie those that don't feel the need to flaunt their beliefs at every opportunity, no matter how appropriate.......

We have been to a few pagan fairs and can't help but feel amusement for the choice of dress, jewellery etc...but surely these people represent the tip of the iceberg only?

Raven

 

[PoliteSuccubus]

I'm a Christan Wiccan, Ozraven.

The plaid sheep, as it were. *laughs*

The main focus is to find harmony in yourself, and radiate it inward and outward via a connection with the earth.

I am not exactly polytheistic, because I worship God the creator. But I don't frown on people who do, because it helps them get in touch with God in their own unique way.

 

[Never]

Heya, I was wondering, how those who consider themselves pagans view Satanists or other LHPers?

 

[PoliteSuccubus]

I've only known one, and he was a nice guy in the venue I knew him.

But I tend to stay away from people like that if I can. In Christan doctrine (which Satanist have to believe in to some extent) Lucifer was on the left hand of God and Jesus on his right. Lucifer wanted things to be easy for the humans, nothing would be wrong, there would be no sin. God decided, and Jesus agreed, that there would be tests and sin etc. Otherwise what would be the point, it would be just like heaven.

They fought, and Lucifer was cast down with his followers out of heaven.

So a true Satanist isn't "evil" per say, but thinks that nothing should be a sin. But just as Bible thumpers give Christianity a bad name there are a lot of satanists who perverted the basic and made it into something else.

A lot of people who are drawn to that sort of life are looking for power over others, etc. And that is simply not the kind of person I want to hang around with. There are, of course, exceptions. But just like I don't listen to rap music for the one good song, I don't attend satanists rituals looking for a few nice folks.

 

[Never]

PoliteSuccubus,
Your response is far more moderate and nonjudgmental than any I've ever seen on the various pagan BBS I used to visit.

 

[PoliteSuccubus]

What can I say; I strive to be a moderate and non-judgemental person.

 

[Never]

As a Christian Wiccan, what do you regard as sinful?

 

[PoliteSuccubus]

That's more than I'm awake to discuss tonight but the very bottom, scaled down jist of it is: Knowingly causeing harm.

Even if you know your right in something, and you know it will cause harm to another person, but you chose to do it is sinful to me.

And, being human, we are flawed and we sin. But, we are able to ask for forgiveness and move on and try to improve ourselves.

Tomorrow I'll look up some scripture and wicca stuff to back that up, but for now:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. ~Bible.


Do as you will,
if it hurt none. ~Wiccan Reede.

 

[ozraven]

To answer both Never and PS, on the satan angle........


The best take I have seen on it resides in two books.......

Robert Hienlien's "Job"

And Anne Rice's "Taltos"

Wherein, they are not so much good and evil, just competitors.....

Sarah Douglas's Crucible series also has a very good "take" on this.

Personally I feel that people should be able to believe whatever they wish, I genuinely suspect people who call themselves satanists, or devil worshipers, but that is purely for the EVIL aspect that the labels carry, I have yet to meet or hear of an evil person that I wanted to do anything to but shoot.............

 

[Image]

My only exposure to "formal" religion is all RC, not exactly a free thinking bunch, and so I struggle a bit with the concept that any religion can include/embrace such a wide variety of beliefs under it's umbrella.

That fits with what you are saying in that paganism is a generalisation, in the same way the christianity is, although perhaps broader..........?

For all it's attractions, the "turn off" for me with regard to paganism and it's ancillaries is the overt weirdos who provide the public profile........

It is more likely my beliefs would be influenced in a more positive way by the "closet" believers, ie those that don't feel the need to flaunt their beliefs at every opportunity, no matter how appropriate.......

We have been to a few pagan fairs and can't help but feel amusement for the choice of dress, jewellery etc...but surely these people represent the tip of the iceberg only?

Raven

LOL
I understand what you're saying but remember you are attending a pagan festival, or most likely a renaissance fair, and that's what people are supposed to do, dress up! The ones OOC are the weirdos

It is true to some extent that the face presented to the public is sometimes a little extreme but that is not always the case. It's just more attention grabbing. I don't deny there are lots of people in it just for shock value. These paths do seem to attract those kind, (I have my theory on that) but... There are many, many, very respectable "spokespeople", doing a lot to educate. To name a couple off hand... Phyllis Curott, a laywer and author. Selena Fox, PhD.

As far as being able to include and embrace such a wide variety of beliefs... that's one of the biggest tenets of this and the reason we do not proselytize.

You see, there are many paths to reunion with the divine. People are in all different stages of evolution and will follow whatever works best for them. There isn't the "My way is the only way" mentality that is present in religions that practice exclusivness.
We recognize that everyone has different needs... All paths are valid, (with the exception of Satanism).

Peace

 

[ExistentialLuv]

Heya, I was wondering, how those who consider themselves pagans view Satanists or other LHPers?

Hey Never. View on Satanists, it is just another religion. We all have the right to worship who we choose. I have not studied it but have talked with a few people who belong to The Church of Satan. They really do not believe in the Devil as in the christian definition does. You yourself can be the Devil. There is no heaven or hell, just good and evil. And instead of being an earth based religion like wicca, it is all about the self. Personal, finacial and material gain. I hope I am not wrong on this because I do hate to look like an ass on a subject, specially one I really do not know much about. Just as a persons sexuality has been stereotyped so has this faith. In the 80's when there were so many sacrificial murders happening, the satanist were blamed. After many years of detective work, they found no evidence that satanist were responsible for these murders. Honestly if I was into personal gratification I would be a satanist but I enjoy helping others to much.

As for LHPers I have no clue who they are. Want to enlighten me.

 

[Image]

Satanism really has no place in a board on Paganism. While it may be a religion (I don't know it's status) I don't think it is officially recognized as such...

At any rate, contrary to what many people think, Satanism is not a Pagan path. Neither pagans or Wiccans believe in the entity known as The devil. We most certainly do not worship him. It is a strictly Judeo-Christian concept and one must believe in Christianity to hold this as being something that exists.

For example: The Black Mass, which is so often depicted in Satanism, is only a perversion of the Roman Catholic Mass. There is nothing new there, only reversals and degradations of the original.

To ancient pagans there were no absolutes. Good and evil; life and death; and other seemingly paradoxical concepts, were all just two sides to the same coin.

And I'm curious too... What's a LPHer. It's becoming so you need a scorecard to keep up with the new agey crap that gets invented daily

 

[Never]

Image:
"Satanism really has no place in a board on Paganism. While it may be a religion (I don't know it's status) I don't think it is officially recognized as such..."

Yes, Satanism is an "officially" recognized religion.

"At any rate, contrary to what many people think, Satanism is not a Pagan path."
What do you base that statement on? When I look up the term 'pagan' in the dictionary it says:

pa·gan n.
1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.

A Satanist would fit many of these definitions.

"Neither pagans or Wiccans believe in the entity known as The devil. We most certainly do not worship him. It is a strictly Judeo-Christian concept and one must believe in Christianity to hold this as being something that exists."

Doesn't Polite Succubus identify herself as a Christian Pagan? And what about someone who called herself a Jewish Pagan? What about Satanists who don't worship the devil as a physical being but a philosophical ideal? What about those that consider themselves worshipers of the devil in his pre-Judeo-Christian form?


"For example: The Black Mass, which is so often depicted in Satanism, is only a perversion of the Roman Catholic Mass. There is nothing new there, only reversals and degradations of the original."
The Black Mass is "depicted in Satanism" as often as it is "depicted in Witchcraft". That is, to say, that the majority of those depictions are created by the Church.


"To ancient pagans there were no absolutes. Good and evil; life and death; and other seemingly paradoxical concepts, were all just two sides to the same coin."
And to Satanists, there is no sin. It seems they were reading a page out of the same book.

"And I'm curious too... What's a LPHer. It's becoming so you need a scorecard to keep up with the new agey crap that gets invented daily "
"Left Hand Path"er.

 

[PoliteSuccubus]

Never, I'm sorry I didn't get around to pulling stuff up for you today. Sick kids in the house.

But I will get to it.

And, just so you know, a lot of Pagans don't consider Christan Wicca a path at all just some screwed up people who can't make up their minds.