Pacifism? A nice thought, right?

[Sparky Kronkite]

But, but, but…..

It can only work – if “everyone” is a Pacifist. Everybody! Just one bad dude screws the whole thing up.

And that may never happen, ever. And that’s too bad. At least I find it so. But, reality sucks and then you die. So….

Fact is – as we all “now” know very, very well – there are some really very bad people out there. Actually quite many.

So….

Pacifism, pure, perfect, “everybody’s got to be one,” Pacifism - can’t work – right now. Hopefully someday but - not right now.

Therefore….

Today (even though they surely have “the right” to be such) Pacifists - are actually a sort of social parasite. And even worse….

Why?

Because, when and if a Pacifist chooses to be vocally demonstrative and make overt attempts to “sway” non-Pacifists to the Pacifists way of thinking – what they actually do is “slow things down.” They throw a monkey wrench into what inevitably of what must be done anyway.

And that very slowness, no mater how little or how great….

Created by the Pacifist - actually defeats the sole purpose of the Pacifist - and gets more of our soldiers killed than there would have been if the Pacifist had just kept his or her mouth shut in the first place.

Currently, today, right now – I believe all Pacifists to be un-American – and I believe they are accomplishing nothing positive. By being vocal in their beliefs and thus promoting a change of action – they are threatening to kill and maim more of our young soldiers than otherwise would be necessary.

So today – Pacifist should simply shut the hell up – because all they do is great harm.

Nice thought huh?

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Currently, today, right now – I believe all Pacifists to be un-American – and I believe they are accomplishing nothing positive. By being vocal in their beliefs and thus promoting a change of action – they are threatening to kill and maim more of our young soldiers than otherwise would be necessary.

So today – Pacifist should simply shut the hell up – because all they do is great harm.

While I can somewhat agree with the rest of your post (although not all of the reasoning behind it), this part I totally disagree with.

Anytime I hear the phrase "un-American" or "patriotic" I sit up and take notice - because usually some bullshit reasoning follows that I want to disagree with.

What is "un-American" is the supression of dissent. The voicing of many different ideas, some right and some wrong, and some a little (or a lot) of both, is what the USA is all about. Anybody that tells others to "shut up" because they don't like their ideas, should consider taking their own advice.

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

I have no problem with "quietly" being a pacifist.

And it is un-American to not allow "vocal disention."

I would advocate no law that "quiets" vocal pacifism.

I would simply wish to point out the "current logic" and have them, the pacifist - make their decision.

Speak out, hinder the war effort and allow more young soldiets to die than need be.

Or -

Be quiet about it.

There are degrees of being a Patriot, of being American or un-American.

And to me - those pacifists who remain relatively quite - in choice to "not get other's killed" are more American than those who would speak out - and kill.

All you pacifists make your own call - yeah this is America - but when you do speak out then at least we'll all know who to blame for lengthening the war. We'll all know who to blame for all the extra carnage.

Just like all the Jane Fonda types on the planet - they don't really care - they're even blind. They don't know that they're killing boys. They don't see it. They're removed.

Pacifism (generally) does not work in "our current" social system. It takes a very near perfect majority. It takes mass. A few pacifists a war does not stop - it only delays.

So have you American rights and make the decision. I would never take that away from you. But logic is logic.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: I have no problem with "quietly" being a pacifist.

Speak out, hinder the war effort and allow more young soldiets to die than need be.

So called "patriotic" isolationists have hindered war efforts more often and more severely than pacifists have. Pacifists are usually a very small minority and usually ignored, unless the war is highly unpopular to start with, and then a lot of people proclaim themselves to be "pacifist". In the latter case most of those "pacifists" are hypocrites who would use violence to avoid fighting the war. We saw that in the demonstrations/riots about the Vietnam war.

There are degrees of being a Patriot, of being American or un-American.

I consider patriotism and being "American" two different things; a patriot is one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests, an "American" is one who stands for the ideals this country was founded on, even when it means going against his/her country and being unpatriotic. As such, I can be unpatriotic at times, indeed quite often - but I consider myself a lot more "American" than a lot of people who call themselves patriots.

Pacifism (generally) does not work in "our current" social system. It takes a very near perfect majority. It takes mass.

I disagree; pacifism will never work because it is not human nature to be passive, it is human nature to be agressive. Regardless of how sophisticated society, government and culture becomes, we will always be human animals, and there will always be a significant number of people who cannot control their agression within the bounds of acceptable limits. We are also territorial, and a number of other aspects of our nature make pacifism an untenable and unrealistic philosophy in 99.9% of real life situations.