Overrated Authors

[Rumple Foreskin]

Just a brief reminder that the largest selling novel in history, is Valley of the Dolls. I have no idea if Jacqueline Susann is underrated, overrated or even who does the "rating."

Rumple Foreskin

 

[The Mutt]

My nominations -
Shakespeare - yes, really. Never read a decent thing he wrote, with the possible exception of a couple of sonnets

Shakespeare? Shakespeare!?! Shakespeare?!?!?

Here's a hint. You are supposed to watch Shakespeare, not read him.

 

[Guest]

Just a brief reminder that the largest selling novel in history, is Valley of the Dolls. I have no idea if Jacqueline Susann is underrated, overrated or even who does the "rating."

Rumple Foreskin

It is!? How come? Anyone know? Does it give the secret of eternal youth, or something?

If I'm being a complete pleb, cos I've not heard of it, excuse me while I crawl back under my rock...

Laser Optical Unit

 

[Guest]

Well Tatelou, I seem to read about one of these overly-fortunate wankers in a newspaper about every six months - just after my blood pressure has returned to normal from the last one.

Oddly, I rarely recall actually seeing their book in subsequent months, so I suspect that it could just be marketing hype. Either that, or it's all just part of that terrible conspiracy to ruin my life, a conspiracy that includes supermarkets, the Inland Revenue, insurance companies, people who wear hats when they drive, and oh so many others.

Lids that won't come off jars? A fly buzzing in your ear, only when you look, it's not there?

I repeat: bastards.

 

[NoJo]

Valley of the Dolls was a schlock horror film I watched at all-nighters in my student days, along with Plan 9 from Outer SPace and "Faster. Pussycat! Kill! Kill!"

 

[Carmenica Diaz]

Shakespeare? Shakespeare!?! Shakespeare?!?!?

Here's a hint. You are supposed to watch Shakespeare, not read him.

As in theatre, I hope?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Valley of the Dolls was a schlock horror film I watched at all-nighters in my student days, along with Plan 9 from Outer SPace and "Faster. Pussycat! Kill! Kill!"

You must be thinking of something else, Joe. "Valley of the Dolls" was a schlock melodrama following three career girls in the 60's trying to make their way in Manhattan. "Dolls" were what they called the pills they'd pop all the time. It had lots of what passed for steamy sex back in 1967.

WHo can forget one of the all-time great camp moments of moviedom when Patty Duke's crawling across the carpet tearing her hair and moaning "A doll! A doll! I've got to find a doll!"

---dr.M.

By the way, isn't "smollett" a kind of plant fungus?

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Valley of the Dolls was a schlock horror film I watched at all-nighters in my student days, along with Plan 9 from Outer SPace and "Faster. Pussycat! Kill! Kill!"

Sub Joe, you may be thinking about the Russ Meyer flick "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls."

Lou, here's a review and synopsis of the novel from Amazon.

Sex and drugs and shlock and more--Jacqueline Susann's addictively entertaining trash classic about three showbiz girls clawing their way to the top and hitting bottom in New York City has it all. Though it's inspired by Susann's experience as a mid-century Broadway starlet who came heartbreakingly close to making it, but did not, and despite its reputation as THE roman á clef of the go-go 1960s, the novel turned out to be weirdly predictive of 1990s post-punk, post-feminist, post "riot grrrl" culture. Jackie Susann may not be a writer for the ages, but--alas!--she's still a writer for our times.

Product Description:
Its three protagonists--Anne Welles, the uptight-but-full-of-a-strange-yearning New England beauty; Neely O'Hara, the Judy Garland á clef; and Jennifer North, who is sort of the Marilyn Monroe á clef and also sort of the Brigitte Bardot á clef but mainly sort of the least realized character in the book--all spend most of the novel with what they want excruciatingly just out of reach, and all are ultimately not only defeated but self-defeating ... I should say, first of all, that I have absolutely no criticisms to make of this book. It is perfect, and I'm not just saying that because I practically memorized it at the age of 13 and it was one of my primary illicit sources of sexual information in the gap between information and experience, and I therefore view it with fond nostalgia.... However melodramatic its plot may be, Valley of the Dolls is simply old-fashioned riveting.

--

This is a synopsis of the movie that starred Barbara Parkins, Patty Duke, and Sharon Tate as the three main characters.

Valley of the dolls tells the story of three remarkable women whose lives are affected by show-business celebrity. Neely O'Hara struggles to make it on the Broadway stage. Yet, when she's reached the pinacle of success in that arena, she finds the view from the top lonely, empty, and unfulfilling. Anne, a small-town New England girl, is unable to resist the temptation of the bright lights of New York. She finds a secretarial job with Lyon Burke -- a well-known entertainment attorney -- who numbers among his clients the creme de la creme of show-business elite (Neely O'Hara among them). After being asked by a photographer to "fill in" for a model who fails to appear for a job, Anne is suddenly catapulted into the role of super-model. Her face is everywhere -- magazine covers, billboards, and television. Soon Neely and Anne find themselves competing for the affections of Lyon. Meanwhile, struggling starlit Jennifer, is forced to make "B" movies in order to make a living for herself and her over-demanding mother.

 

[The Mutt]

As in theatre, I hope?

The best Shakespearian director I ever worked with would begin every first rehearsal by saying, "Shakespeare is the greatest poet that ever lived. Your job is to forget that fact. This is a play and plays are meant to be seen, not read."

I also personally believe that poems are meant to be read aloud.

 

[thebullet]

steve w. wrote:
J D Salinger - said it before and got slated, but it's still true - the worst book I've ever read in my life

Hold on, there, partner. you be belittlin' Catcher in the Rye?
Them's fightin' words.

 

[The Mutt]

Hold on, there, partner. you be belittlin' Catcher in the Rye?
Them's fightin' words.

And history has shown the danger of pissing off Catcher in the Rye fans.

 

[thebullet]

And history has shown the danger of pissing off Catcher in the Rye fans.

I'm looking for the black helicopters.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Re: Ancient Relics

Walter Pater

Pistols. Hyde Park. Noon.

Shanglan

 

[BlackShanglan]

Here's a hint. You are supposed to watch Shakespeare, not read him.

Mutt, thou sagacious and perceant hound. Well said.

 

[Kassiana]

TheEarl: I liked Dune (I'm in an argumentative mood this morning).
--You haven't argued yet, hon.

TheEarl: It's a bit of hard work the first time you read it as it's not exactly clear about where it's going, but when you break the surface, the plot will carry you.
--Didn't happen after 150 pages, and if it doesn't by then, I don't bother reading further.

Dr. M: you'd think that as writers, we'd be able to separate an anuthor's style from his content
--We are human beings, you know, and as such we aren't perfectly objective. I don't like authors who write depressing and frustrating stories. That's why I don't like Steinbeck. To me, he commits pointless violence against good characters. Why should I like what he writes? Because you like what he writes and are offended that I don't?

I don't insist that everyone else like what I do. I don't understand people who like things that I find immoral, predictable, and boring, but I understand that they like them.

Dr. M: I think it's kind of silly to criticize an author becsue you don't like what he writes about.
--I don't. I think it would be silly if you kept on reading and reading that author and kept on bitching about her/him, but it's not wrong to give your opinion...which is what the OP asked for.

Impressive: How many are being cut down just because of their successes?
--None by me. I genuinely dislike the things I mentioned. However, given that we're talking about "over-rated authors," it'd be hard to find an obscure over-rated author, no? Do you know of any?

 

[TheEarl]

TheEarl: It's a bit of hard work the first time you read it as it's not exactly clear about where it's going, but when you break the surface, the plot will carry you.
--Didn't happen after 150 pages, and if it doesn't by then, I don't bother reading further.

I was curious to see exactly where 150 pages fell in the scheme of the story (for those who are interested, it's just before the Duke's banquet at Arakeen). That was almost exactly where I left it the first time I read the book, until I was urged by a friend to carry on reading. The book suddenly swings into action about 30 pages later and I'm glad my friend persuaded me.

Now that I know what's going to happen I can appreciate the first 180 pages for what it is - a very intricate setting up of the story and world and a beautiful prelude to the main thrust of the story. However the first time I wasn't entirely sure if there even was a main thrust to the story.

It will repay your investment, but I agree that it's terrible writing to spend over half the book just scene setting.

The Earl

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I'm sure I'm not the first to say it, but Hemmingway. At least his novels.

He wrote some great fucking short stories.

But anything longer and he turns into a three-year old piss artist.

 

[NoJo]

Hold on, there, partner. you be belittlin' Catcher in the Rye?
Them's fightin' words.

Forget CITR, what about "For Esme, with Love and Squalor" ("Nine Stories" in the UK)!

If you haven't read it, check out the six page story "The Laughing Man".

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Salinger spawns an interesting divide.

If you are an introvert, outcast, or a little off, safe money is you love him and worship him.

If you are an extrovert, BMOC, or never known pain, safe money is you think he's a twat.

 

[steve w]

Yes, it is Catcher in the Rye to which I refer. Despite not apparently being an extrovert and having at least a nodding acquaintance to pain (I got a paper cut only yesterday), I do think Salinger is a twat, and not in that nice Tatelou way.

As I said, I've been slated before for it and I don't expect die-hard Salinger fans to have a moment of enlightenment, but I stand by my original view -

It is the worst book I've ever read by quite a distance. Pointless, aimless, charmless. I wanted the kid to die and was profoundly disappointed when he didn't. When you're writing in the first person, it is beholdent on you to make that character interesting. Salinger didn't.

On my previous list I forgot JK Rowling. Once again, I've been metaphorically dragged through the streets behind a chariot and burned at several stakes for saying so. But Jeez, she writes for little children. For them it's great. For grown adults, it's childish. Quiddich is not the greatest game ever invented, the books are not brilliant story-telling. They're obvious and directed at the mentality of a ten-year-old. Why would an adult be interested in that? Do you Rowling fans also play with Robosapiens all day and want alphabetti spaghetti ten times a week? No? So why do you laud a children's book as if it were art?

 

[TheEarl]

I wouldn't say Rowling ever achieves art, but the lady has a talent for telling a fun story. It is no more than a bit of fun and the reason so many adults clamour for it is because it is a children's book that it is socially acceptable for them to read and like. Everyone enjoys the harmless fun of children's books/television/films etc - why do you think it's cool to like kitsch amongst early 20-somethings?

Harry Potter is something which is childish and fun which doesn't take any work to read at all and it's acceptable for adults to say they like it due to a strange quirk in social attitudes. That's why Rowling's so popular IMHO.

Personally I love Roald Dahl's children's books.

The Earl

 

[English Lady]

Hehe. Then you haven't been the butt of the REAL joke yet. I thought the first three volumes were decent. Aptly written fantasy in an interresting world with the right blend of magic, social and political intrigue, and monsters to stick swords in.

But after that they just ploughed on...and ploughed on... and ploughed on...without ever getting anywhere. I gave up after book eleven, or something like that, no longer giving a flying fuck wether the hero saves the world and defeats the über evil overlord or not. Wheel of Time was a good setup for a fantasy series but poor Jordan didn't have the sef control to wrap it up while he still was ahead of the game.

Well Liar I admire your stamina! I remember reading the first one and thinking "this is kinda boing I hope something happens soon..." and it did! I got all excited ofr a couple of pages and well then it went boring again....and well I had no fight left to search for the next exciting bit

I prefer Eddings. His series sems to follow a strategy at least. And he writes with some wit. Eddings doesn't try to be a serious writer, and thus he becomes a harmless, but pretty good, entertainer.

I know several people I love and admire who adore Eddings. I just don't get him...he wombles on for forever saying sod all. I mean I like background, I love in depth characters but I want some plot and stoyryline too please!!! *L*

Have you ever Tried David Gemmell? Now there is a damn good heroic fantasy writer. Some say he's over-rated but he's number one in my personal book. Also JV Jones does fantastic heroic fantasy too.



Steve W : To be honest I don't even think that as a Childrens book Harry Potter is anything special. I love Kids books. I still happily read my Chronicles of Prydain books by Lloyd Alexander because they are such magnificent stories same goes for the Narnia stories and anything by Roald Dahl. R\owling is just not in the same league. Alright it is passable. Easy to read, nothing to challenging but oh lord the plot holes! the plot holes!! My sister dragged me to the last film and we were discussing it after and I was saying about some massive plot holes I'd seen and eveery one had been in the book, it wasn't a film adaptation cock up.

So yeah right with you there JK and HP are well overratted and highly hyped up.

 

[NoJo]

Sub Joe, you may be thinking about the Russ Meyer flick "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls."

Oops! Er, yes. Judging by Dr's post, it was not a sequel.

 

[oggbashan]

Re: Re: Ancient Relics

Pistols. Hyde Park. Noon.

Shanglan

Walter Pater was a good writer. In his day he was over-rated and placed with the greats as essential reading for any 'educated' person.

Today perhaps he is rated below his worth.

Og

PS. I don't fight with pistols. As a King I use armed forces. No safer for me, expensive but effective. How about battleships at 50 yards?

 

[BlackShanglan]

Re: Re: Re: Ancient Relics

Walter Pater was a good writer. In his day he was over-rated and placed with the greats as essential reading for any 'educated' person.

Today perhaps he is rated below his worth.

Og

PS. I don't fight with pistols. As a King I use armed forces. No safer for me, expensive but effective. How about battleships at 50 yards?

Hmmm. Can we settle on a good cavalry charge? There's a game we can both play at. Or did you perhaps have an unfortunate experience in the horse-and-riding area of endeavour?

Grudgingly, I will concede that Pater is perhaps a more minor figure than, say, Shakespeare. But "Marius" ... such a spell upon the brain. I don't think him a "great" in the sense of titanic, earth-shaking figure like Milton - although he did foster Wilde, and I think all roads good that lead to Wilde - but he is one of the most enchanting by-ways one can take. While perhaps one might wander into the thicket of his beautiful words and never be seen again, I cannot convince myself, in the midst of "Marius the Epicurean," that I at all desire to be found.

Shanglan