Overage disclaimer

[JKendallDane]

Laurel stated her position and rationale in plain terms eighteen years ago and in the thirteen years I've been at Lit, I've never seen her waver from it. This is her post in a similar topic thread from 08-01-2001.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=645556&postcount=4

I've always believed that words are just words. I don't put fiction in the same class as reality - if it was, then war novels and murder mysteries would be appalling. I've also been a teen, and know that teens are sexual beings. We're not saying that no one under 18 has ever had any sexual thoughts. We know that most people lose their virginity under the age of 18. I know I did.

I know it's an inconvenience for writers at times, but I want you to know that our over-18 policy is not born out of some moral nor legal standard (though we are staunchly against pedophilia). No matter where we draw the line, there will be people who think it unfair. However, as we are not ready to publish stories involving children, we must draw a line. Minors in the US are those under the age of 18, so that's the safest line to draw. If we were in GB, the age would probably be 16...and those in countries where 12 is the legal age of consent might find THAT constraining.

Here in the US, the age issue is a touchier deal than rape or anything else. Technically, fiction featuring under age sex is perfectly legal - as is fiction which features murder or rape - but those currently "in power" would like to make such fiction (as well as all adult material) illegal. A man was recently put in jail for writing fictitious stories about underage children IN HIS PRIVATE JOURNAL. The man was on parole, but it still sets a very bad legal precedent. Like I said, we feel the need to draw the line somewhere, and 18 just makes the most sense for us in many ways.

That said, we have no problem with writers of such stories or sites that publish such stories. It's just not something we publish. There are sites that won't publish incest. There are sites that feel comfortable publishing a wider variety of fiction. Asstr.org, I think, will accept underage, and White Shadow does as well.

If you ever have any questions regarding this or anything else in the submission guidelines or any part of the site, please drop me a PM or an email or start a thread here.

It's pretty simple: Her beach, her rules. If you disagree with them then you are more than welcome to take your little pail & shovel and go build your sandcastle elsewhere.

Laurel doesn't have a problem with high-school-based or coming-of-age stories so long as we realistically age up the characters to the 18 cutoff. I, and many other Lit authors, have done it successfully by simply satisfying that one requirement she has placed on such story lines.

Perhaps the best thing everyone could do is look at the rule not as a "restriction" but rather as a "protection" from having the entire site under attack by every member of every "Tight Ass Society" group in America claiming Lit is "a kiddie porn site" because there are stories of sixteen-year-olds losing their virginity at Scout camp or in the back seat of Mom's mini van. We all know there are groups out there that live for that kind of opportunity and, more importantly, Laurel understands what that threat poses for the whole site...and all of us.

.

 

[Hypoxia]

IIRC I mentioned on a parallel thread that I dropped from my third high school in my senior year and cavorted a couple years, then returned for a diploma from a big-city adult high where EVERYONE was 18+, sometimes much.

Besides AHS, consider continuation school. My most recent piece is set in summer school at the end of a senior year -- they're all 18+ and horny. Safe!

IRL HS graduates range from 12 to 72. On LIT, all HS seniors are 18.

 

[Voboy]

This is about the 80,000th thread on this topic.

It's not hard, OP. Just mention they're over 18. You don't have to like it, but ranting will get you nowhere. Toe the line or post elsewhere. We've all figured that out, many of us without disclaimers.

 

[astuffedshirt_perv]

Wow this topic veered wildly off the question! And as for you voboy,

This is about the 80,000th thread on this topic.

It's not hard, OP. Just mention they're over 18. You don't have to like it, but ranting will get you nowhere.

if you think my post was a rant, i wonder how you can possibly deal with the real world. My Goodness! Takes all kinds, I guess.

Anyway, seems a pretty simple question: Explicit disclaimer or not? Lit generally assumes high school seniors are of 18. From the editor's forum Rejected story? What does it mean? What now?

Make sure that your characters are over 18 or at least a senior in high school to fix the problem.

And this has been my experience on lit, high school seniors are assumed to by 18 irregardless of what typically happens in real life. However, things may have changed.

So the question is, if you have high school seniors getting freaky, do you need to drop the explicit 'all characters are 18' or explicitly mention it in the story or is the high school senior rule good enough.

The consensus here seems to be that you need an explicit line in the story saying they are over 18. Can do!

 

[Voboy]

Wow this topic veered wildly off the question!

...

The consensus here seems to be that you need an explicit line in the story saying they are over 18. Can do!

How did it veer? You asked whether a disclaimer was now required, we said no. Perfect.

Regardless, I’m pleased you agree with what I advised. That should clear everything up to Laurel’s satisfaction.

I look forward to reading your story.

 

[NotWise]

So the question is, if you have high school seniors getting freaky, do you need to drop the explicit 'all characters are 18' or explicitly mention it in the story or is the high school senior rule good enough.

The consensus here seems to be that you need an explicit line in the story saying they are over 18. Can do!

I generally don't put an explicit age into a story, though it's usually discernible from context. I think what's most important is that your characters are described to look and act like they're eighteen or older.

I think putting a number on the age is almost pointless. Anybody could write a character who's circumstances and behavior make them under eighteen, but then put some line in the story like "Hi Bob. This is your eighteen-year-old girlfriend Robin," and stick an "over eighteen" disclaimer at the beginning of the story, even if Robin doesn't have a job, can't drive, acts immature, looks immature, etc.

 

[KeithD]

Sure, mainstream literature does it. Most such books are published by mainstream publishers with mainstream legal departments.
Way better to be safe than sorry.

One more time, publishers' legal departments don't have to worry about defending underage sex in written fiction. It's not against the law to write underage sex in fiction.

The single case mentioned on this thread so far falls on broader issues than merely underage fiction--or even underage rape--in written fiction.

 

[EdEc]

My birthday is on June 10. I graduated a few days after my birthday. I was never 18 when I was a high school student.

 

[KeithD]

My birthday is on June 10. I graduated a few days after my birthday. I was never 18 when I was a high school student.

Neither was I, with a later birthday than that. But that isn't what the real issue people are choosing to ignore here. It's the audience you're after when you just have to have your characters having sex while in high school.

The double whammy here, of course, is the senior high school boy/girl having sex with his/her mother/father. That's, what? 85 or 95 percent of the incest stories here?

 

[Voboy]

I think putting a number on the age is almost pointless. Anybody could write a character who's circumstances and behavior make them under eighteen, but then put some line in the story like "Hi Bob. This is your eighteen-year-old girlfriend Robin," and stick an "over eighteen" disclaimer at the beginning of the story, even if Robin doesn't have a job, can't drive, acts immature, looks immature, etc.

But that’s Lit’s quirk, innit?

Narratively you’re right: it’s pointless in a character like the one you describe. But pragmatically? It isn’t pointless at all; in fact, in Laurel’s world, it’s entirely the point. A clause like yours makes the story publishable here, unequivocally.

Yes, it seems like a dodge. And it might be. But Laurel’s world is where we’re posting.

 

[ElectricBlue]

As irritated as I am with Laurel right now, I can fully see why she errs on the side of caution on underage. Sure, mainstream literature does it. Most such books are published by mainstream publishers with mainstream legal departments.

Laurel isn't your problem. Not knowing how to punctuate dialogue correctly is your problem. Fix your problem and you'll be fine. Just saying .

 

[NotWise]

I think you're wrong; when a character acts and looks as if (s)he is younger than 18, it can (will) be rejected. Even when it has been indicated that (s)he is 18. That's not supposed to be a loophole, and stories that somehow passed through can be reported and removed.

That's the way it should work and I know it's happened, but I have to wonder how often.

Someone put up a story for comments in the feedback forum a few months ago in which the male character, by description, would have been a twelve-year-old-boy. I seriously considered reporting the story but held off partly because this boy drove a Corolla and had his own apartment. To my mind, those were insignificant additions, but someone else defended the author, saying that there are over-eighteen boys who look like their twelve.

I suppose you could write characters who are perpetually immature because of their pituitary problems.

 

[Voboy]

I think you're wrong; when a character acts and looks as if (s)he is younger than 18, it can (will) be rejected. Even when it has been indicated that (s)he is 18. That's not supposed to be a loophole, and stories that somehow passed through can be reported and removed.

Really.

So, a young man who’s perpetually horny, who doesn’t think of consequences, who’s kinda dumb, who doesn’t have a job or prospects, who fucks a lot, who makes bad and thoughtless choices... but who’s 26, say...

You’re saying that story would get rejected? That’s, like, a quarter of the male protagonists on the site.

 

[Voboy]

This is no example of someone under 18. Your reaction is like one of an adolescent, but that doesn't make me think you are under 18.

It's all about context, and sometimes it's blurred, but other times the intentions of the writer are too obvious.

How is that adolescent? I’ve read dozens of stories on the site exactly like that, as well as further dozens where eighteen-year-olds have all the poise and judgement of a 30-year-old. They’re both acceptable.

 

[NotWise]

How is that adolescent? I’ve read dozens of stories on the site exactly like that, as well as further dozens where eighteen-year-olds have all the poise and judgement of a 30-year-old. They’re both acceptable.

I think RubenR probably meant something like "Your description is like one of an adolescent," rather than "Your reaction..."

Your character is an immature loser. In reality, he probably wouldn't get laid all that much, except maybe by other immature losers. By itself those descriptions aren't a problem, but if you combine it with something like "a little dick and a mere tuft of pubic hair" and give him the strength and social presentation of a child, then the story should be rejected regardless of what number you want to put on the character's age.

The same thing goes for girls. An eighteen-year-old girl doesn't have "budding breasts." She might have small breasts, but by the time she's eighteen they shouldn't be "budding" any more. Et cetera.

 

[Voboy]

I’m plainly missing something. Wouldn’t be the first time.

Good luck with your story, OP.

 

[NotWise]

I’m plainly missing something. Wouldn’t be the first time.

I'm not sure what you're missing. If a character is described as a child, then it shouldn't make any difference what number you give them for an age. They're a child.

 

[OmnislashXX]

If you really want the story published, then take it to another erotic site. Trust me, Literotica is not the only site out there.

 

[jaF0]

Someone put up a story for comments in the feedback forum a few months ago in which the male character, by description, would have been a twelve-year-old-boy. I seriously considered reporting the story but held off partly because this boy drove a Corolla and had his own apartment. To my mind, those were insignificant additions, but someone else defended the author, saying that there are over-eighteen boys who look like their twelve.

I suppose you could write characters who are perpetually immature because of their pituitary problems.

In Star Trek - Miri, the 'Onlies' appear as children, but are in fact over 300 years old.

There are many, many other similar examples in Sci Fi, but of course, none of them engage in intimacies.

 

[astuffedshirt_perv]

I'm not sure what you're missing. If a character is described as a child, then it shouldn't make any difference what number you give them for an age. They're a child.

to be clear, my intent was to make them adults. She is a highly responsible young woman with 'healthy curves, maybe more than healthy' and he is described as muscular and male model material.

 

[ElectricBlue]

to be clear, my intent was to make them adults. She is a highly responsible young woman with 'healthy curves, maybe more than healthy' and he is described as muscular and male model material.

So stick them in college, not high school, make them explicitly older than eighteen. Write them as adults, not teenagers, and all the problems go away. It's pretty easy, really. Good luck .

 

[Hypoxia]

In Star Trek - Miri, the 'Onlies' appear as children, but are in fact over 300 years old.

We can write of immortal hominids who appear pre-pubescent though many millennia old, or of ancient aliens or were-critters who look like young humans -- but not on LIT. They can't appear as under-18s. The only out is to awaken a young mind in an 18+ body.

ObTopic: When I saw the thread title I thought, "What, are they all over 72?"

 

[NotWise]

to be clear, my intent was to make them adults. She is a highly responsible young woman with 'healthy curves, maybe more than healthy' and he is described as muscular and male model material.

The thread drifted into the generic issue. We weren't really talking about your story -- and couldn't, since it isn't published.

If your character descriptions are consistent with their age then you should be able to resubmit the story with a note pointing that out. It's been done a lot. If that doesn't work or you don't want to wait for another possible iteration, then add something to the story itself that says they're eighteen and point that out to Laurel in the notes.

I don't think a disclaimer by itself is useful, and when I see it on porn sites I usually assume it's a lie. When I see it on Lit stories, I wonder why the author thinks anyone would believe it.

 

[KeithD]

I don't think a disclaimer by itself is useful, and when I see it on porn sites I usually assume it's a lie. When I see it on Lit stories, I wonder why the author thinks anyone would believe it.

This.

 

[Jada59]

My birthday is on June 10. I graduated a few days after my birthday. I was never 18 when I was a high school student.

June 26 here. Same. We had a bad winter that year and our graduation was late. I still was only 17.