Outside Reading

[dr_mabeuse]

How many authors regularly read lit outside of erotica?
I don't want to start a big list of influential writers. I'm just curious as to whether people read other stuff and if so, what kind.
And if not, I'd like to know that too.


---dr.M.

 

[Pookie]

Unfortunately, most of my "outside" reading is related to my studies. It's rare that I have time to read anything of my own choosing. I do enjoy a good mystery though, if I know I have the time to start and finish it. The authors can vary. It's whatever happens to catch my attention at the moment.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

Like Pookie I mostly read works that relate to my profession (history) because I'm in grad school. When I do get a chance I like scifi/fantasy, mystery and nora roberts.

 

[karmadog]

I don't read much at Lit, but outside I am constantly reading: History, literary fiction, classics, the occasional mystery, what-have-you.

 

[kristydoll]

I read so much erotica on practically a daily basis that I rarely read it for pleasure anymore.

If I just want to read and get into a good book, I read any kind of fiction courtroom drama story or suspense. If I am really looking for ideas to help out in my own writing, I will look at genres like 'glitz' or even the odd (but please not sappy) romance.

kristy

 

[Guest]

I read constantly - anything and everything. I'll get on a certain author or group of authors and read voraciously until that series is completed. Then I'll move on to someone else.

Lately I'm into Nora Roberts, her murder series written as J.D. Robb. Murder/mystery/love/great sex/tough female cop stuff. Not serious reading, but fun. Delicious!!

I think I'm making up for lost time now. I remember being in grad school and not being able to read any book that was not subject related. That takes so much energy!

I have hardbacks of many of the serious authors I enjoy, but I buy paperbacks as well because I am very hard on books. ( I read the covers off 'em!)

 

[Whispersecret]

First, thanks, Dr. M. for asking that this not be a list of influential writers that we all read. I've seen enough of that, thanks.

I read constantly. I'm a fast reader, so it's easy. I will read for pleasure every single day. If I ever go blind, I'll be in big trouble.

I read about 90% romantic fiction. It's what I love and it's what I write. I read some non-fiction, usually it's on subjects that relate to my writing. I also occasionally read a book that I hope will improve me as a human being or parent.

 

[M.A.Thompson]

While it is far from literature, I find Sports Illustrated to be a weekly source of outstanding writing. Steve Rushin and Rick Reilly, both of whom have weekly columns, are, in my opinion, two of the most articulate and refreshing journalist working today.

While an appreciation of sports is an asset when reading SI, it is not a requirement. Pick it up one week.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Why I asked

First let me go on record as being a reading fool myself. You can have your movies and your TV; I just love the printed word.

Second, I have no problem with Sports Illustrated. Their writing is consistently excellent, and I think most of what they do inthere would work in fiction just as well.

Now. The reason I asked is because I see a lot of stories here where. after reading them, all I can think to say is: you should go read some good fiction. I can think of no other comment to makem veacuase it seems like the author just doesn't understand story-making.

Do you think that telling someone to go read fiction is a useful criticism?

---dr.M.

 

[DanielOrme]

Outside the usual list of influential writers (don't worry, I'm not going to list them), I mostly read non-fiction, especially essays and history. Most recently I've been reading Robert Caro's biography of Lyndon B Johnson.

Do you think that telling someone to go read fiction is a useful criticism?

---dr.M.

I think that it's the most useful criticism there is. I wouldn't begin to know how to teach someone to write. I sometimes doubt it's even possible (I'm glad I'm not an English teacher). If that's true, I think the only way is to hope someone has the talent to begin with and expose them to good writing.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Let's see, the books that I've read in the past week are all piled on my desk for ease of use. I haven't read all of them all the way through, though I've read a lot of most of 'em.

Japanese Women Writers
Concepts in Programming Languages
The Chinese Vernacular Story
A Book of Love Poetry
Rules of the Dance by Mary Oliver
On Writing by Stephen King
Chanur's Homecoming by C.J. Cherryh
Hell in the Palo Duro by J.T. Edson
Dream Man by Linda Howard
and
Flint by Norah Hess


To answer your question, Dr. M, I don't think telling someone to go read fiction is a good criticism. That doesn't tell them anything about their own writing. I do think it's good advice, though. I don't think you can guage what "good" writing is unless you've read both "good" and "bad" writing. "Good" and "bad" is pretty much defined by the reader on an individual basis, story by story.






New standard disclaimer: I don't consider myself an authority, just opinionated.

 

[Sabledrake]

I read primarily horror, thrillers, and mysteries nowadays. I re-read most of my old favorites (King, Koontz, McCammon, Saul) every couple of years. New horror faves are Laymon and Little. Horror anthologies are also great, particularly those that combine horror with erotica, a la the Hot Blood books.

For mysteries, I've been enjoying Sharyn McCrumb's books (and any gamer/fantype MUST read her hysterical murder-at-a-sci-fi-convention book, "Bimbos of the Death Sun"), the Joanna Brady series by J.A. Jance, and John Sandford's "Prey" books.

Weirdly, though I write a lot of fantasy, I hardly ever read any of it.

Sabledrake

 

[KillerMuffin]

I don't read a lot of actual "literature." I read more genre than any other kind. I prefer to write "literature," though I don't usually succeed. I don't think that genre is somehow inferior to literature, though. I know a few of the literary writers I hang with here in the outside world think that genre or pop fiction is so much garbage compared to the literary world, but I think they have it all wrong. I think that "literature" is just another genre and a rather unpopular one at that. It's intellectualism in writing and it doesn't necessarily take into account that reading should be fun, too. Intellectualism, on a side note, doesn't equate to intelligent.








Standard Disclaimer: I don't consider myself an authority, just opinionated.

 

[Alex De Kok]

I NEED Books!

Like Whispersecret, if I ever lose my sight I'm in trouble. I could live quite happily without TV, without my PCs, even (shock, horror!) without Literotica, but never without books.

In the last week I have started, finished, or looked at (in no particular order):

'The Girl who loved Tom Gordon', and 'On Writing' by Stephen King
'Precursor' by C J Cherryh
'The Ultimate Motor-Cycle Book' by Hugo Wilson
'From the corner of his eye' by Dean Koontz
'Shattered' by Dick Francis
'Learning Perl on Win32 Systems' by Schwarz, Olson and Christiansen
'Perl 5 Pocket Reference' by Johan Vromans
Chambers Pocket Guide to Good English
and several magazines of hobby interests.

I haven't written anything!

Alex

 

[dr_mabeuse]

NO LISTS!!!

I want to step in here before this gets out of hand.
I don't want lists of what you're reading.
The question was whether you read to improve your writing and whether telling someone that they need to read more is a valid comment on their writing.

It's my thread so nyaaaahhh!


---dr.M.

 

[Angeline]

I think that "literature" is just another genre and a rather unpopular one at that. It's intellectualism in writing and it doesn't necessarily take into account that reading should be fun, too. Intellectualism, on a side note, doesn't equate to intelligent.

I've always read pretty much whatever I can get my hands on or is put in front of me--up to and including the phone book and cereal boxes.

Lately, I've been reading a lot of poetry, mainly Hispanic poets because there are qualities in the world of Latin poetry that appeal to me and fiction and nonfiction about jazz and its culture.

I know what "literature" is and I read that, too, if I'm in the mood--even classic stuff like Shakespeare. (I recently reread Julius Caesar cause I love the play and I wanted to write--for my own interests--about persuasion in that play.) I'm not trying to be an intellectual by reading it, nor do I think that any writer--cetainly not the nonmoderns--was writing to build a canon for the "intelligentsia." Aristophanes' "Clouds" is a comedy and Shakespeare wrote for performance before groups that included Elizabeth and her court as well as some pretty unruly lout types. I think literature is a product of its history and culture, and each person has her own taste (I also happen to love Lonesome Dove, old Superman comics, and Mad Magazine).

And Dr. Mabeuse I agree that people don't follow the tenets of good fiction here and I know some of that reflects their own exposure or lack thereof to good fiction (which may or may not be "literary"), but here doesn't it also have alot to do with purpose? I'm not making a judgment about this, but I bet a lot of readers and writers here don't care if the plot is logical or the characters are three-dimensional.

(And these are just my views--I'm not trying to be a snob or an anything--this is just what works for me.)

 

[Whispersecret]

Re: NO LISTS!!!

...The question was whether you read to improve your writing and whether telling someone that they need to read more is a valid comment on their writing.

---dr.M.

OH. I misunderstood. Yes, I read to improve my writing. In order to write within a genre, I firmly believe that you need to read it extensively. So I read a lot of romance and erotic romance. This way I can better know what the (paying) audience expects and what the norm is, so that when and if I go outside those boundaries, I don't go too far.

I also read books on plot, characterzation, viewpoint, etc.

Telling someone to read good fiction is something I've told beginning Lit writers. It's actually good advice for any writer, not just novices. However, there's no way to know if an author's literary weaknesses are due to not having been exposed to enough good writing, or just a lack of talent.

My theory is that you can't be a good writer if you aren't an avid reader. However, you can read thousands of pages a year and still not be able to write a decent paragraph.

 

[wildsweetone]

Do you think that telling someone to go read fiction is a useful criticism?

your question is something i've been recently asking myself. i too have read that one needs to read widely in order to improve one's own writing.

coincidentally, this last weekend i made a decision. i am limiting the amount of television i watch and switching that same time frame into picking up a book. god knows, i have at least half a dozen sitting around that i should have read already.

i believe that reading will help me improve my own writing. i was recently reminded of the story feedback thread. i used to read a lot of stories, but stopped because it ate into my writing time. i learned a lot from reading other people's stories. i continue to give feedback and editing privately, because i realise it's worth to me AND to other authors. actually, i didn't do it for myself initially, i did it to give something back to Lit.

i have tentatively suggested that the odd author should pick up a book and check the kind of grammar used for a specific problem. but i haven't straight out said GO AND READ! i think it's well worth suggesting to authors you know don't read enough. but errors in writing are not always because the author is not a reader. so beware the tone you use when you suggest they read more.

to choose to read daily, is as conscious a choice as to choose to write daily.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

Re: NO LISTS!!!

I want to step in here before this gets out of hand.
I don't want lists of what you're reading.
The question was whether you read to improve your writing and whether telling someone that they need to read more is a valid comment on their writing.

It's my thread so nyaaaahhh!


---dr.M.

And we're hijacking it!!! LOL

I don't think that reading more will help someone who can't spell or who doesn't necessarily know anything about grammar. I would suggest that they read Stephen King book on how to write, or something more constructive. Address your major problems with the work, don't just give random comments like "go read more."

For example...good criticism might be...
You really need to get a good sense of grammar...try reading the story alound to yourself.

You have some major spelling errors...you may want to spell check your story.

You use adjectives (descriptive) words too much/not enough to the point where it is distracting.

Your lack of plot is disturbing. Why are the characters doing X?

You need more/less sex in your story...

 

[Whispersecret]

I disagree, Deliciously Naughty. I think that I absorbed a lot of what I know about grammar and mechanics from the amount of reading I have always done. It certainly wasn't from English class. Diagramming sentences didn't teach me a darned thing. I don't even know the difference between participles and gerunds. However, I feel I do know, for the most part, when something is right and when it's wrong.

Now perhaps you'd have to take into account that I have read avidly since I was in Kindergarten, and that perhaps my brain was more sponge-like in those earlier years. (You know, like kids being able to learn languages easier than adults.)

If that youth-sponge thing isn't valid, then perhaps you CAN gain knowledge about the written language by reading a lot. I certainly think so. I find myself sort of absorbing specific styles. I read "A Prayer for Owen Meany," last year, and suddenly my writing seemed Irving-like. If I read a Nora Roberts novel, I start writing a bit like her. So perhaps my theory isn't so far-fetched.

Or maybe I'm just a copy-cat. LOL.

 

[wildsweetone]

I find myself sort of absorbing specific styles. I read "A Prayer for Owen Meany," last year, and suddenly my writing seemed Irving-like. If I read a Nora Roberts novel, I start writing a bit like her. So perhaps my theory isn't so far-fetched.

Or maybe I'm just a copy-cat. LOL.

i think i read somewhere that this means you're simply still on the journey of discovering your own style.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Hijackers!

Don't worry about hijacking my stupid thread. I just know how crazy we all are about making lists of our favorites, and I didn't want this to become a favorites list. But what do I know?

I do want to weigh in on Angeline's side about literature though, because I think that many people think that it's a dirty word. The whole country seems to be in the grip of some rampant anti-intellectualism that's made being intelligent some sort of shameful character defect such that kids in school will intentionally fail rather than risk being labelled a nerd or geek.
Popularity had become the most important indicator of worth and money earned the only reliable measure of value. And if you want to see what you get when popularity sets priorities, just turn on the TV.
Classic literature is classic because a lot of people have found it to be unusually valuable and worthwhile. It may not be fun reading to us today, but the things that made it great are still there.
I guess if you just want to be popular, you should just read and absorb poular lit. But if you think that writing has the potential for being more than that, if you think that lit has the power to actually change the way you understand things and leave you ringing like a gong, then sooner or later you're going to be digging around in some classics trying to find out why the hell they're so damned great.
Anyway, fool that I am, I believe erotica is still waiting for its first great artists. And when they appear--and I think they're appearing now--I suppose we'll all be wondering why we never thought to write like that.

---dr.M.

 

[Angeline]

Great Erotic Lit

I think that Duras' The Lover and some stuff by Nin is exceptionally well written--literary--erotica, and don't discount some historical "porn" like the 19th c compendium The Pearl or the earlier eastern works. But I suppose you're right Doc, the modern contributions have, with few exceptions, not yet been written.

 

[Whispersecret]

I disagree, Doc. I look in the LA Times Book Review, and it's all about literature, not popular fiction. I don't think literature is a dirty word, but it's an elitist one.

Popularity isn't measured by what you read. Certainly, I've felt embarrassed to list what I read most of the time when those Favorite Lists come up, because I read lots of popular fiction.

Certainly literature has great power, to teach, to motivate, to resonate. However, most of the time I want to escape and have a good time. I can't usually find that in Literature (with a capital L.) In fact, I have an unproven theory that it can't be considered literature if it has a happy ending.

 

[Erlikkhan]

I seldom read erotica... only write it. I sure hope everyone has other lives that mostly consume them between the occasional escape this place offers. Not that I don't like it here... And, in my opinion, judging literature is like tasting wine... if the taster thinks it tastes good then it must be so.