Our Free Speech Under Attack.

[LadyJeanne]

Actually... I would say that the real cause is that if there is only one vision of the world allowed than the same people get to stay in power.

Sincerely,
ElSol

Bingo!

 

[Dar~]

My biggest problem with this bill is that by not teaching children about homosexuality or at least letting the exposure be possible, they are hiding a very big part of society. Leaving children uneducated or even undereducated about something like that is just like putting blinders on a horse and expecting him to know where he is (pardon that shang )
The children coming out of that situation will be unprepared for the real world. Even more so than they already will be. It will in the long run only promote hate, violence,and thoughtless discrimination.
It must be constitutionally wrong. Wouldn't that violate the first ammendment and also other laws. I know it would suck to be a homosexual child and adolescent and not have any material to reference to to let you know its normal. I bet suicide rates would rise b/c of kids and adults feeling more persecuted.
Allen is really needing to face the facts. Homosexuality is very real and very prevalent world wide. Burying a few boooks doesn't make it any less so. Its just promotoing the kind of violence that gets media coverage. Unfortunately it is media coverage for fuck tards like him. When something happens that is sexuality realated he's probably going to take it as evidence that he is or was correct and that his bill/s need to be accepted and some reject undereducated alabaman haters are going to help him pass it and just contribute to the general delinquency and ignorance that is alreeady an unfortunate ascpect of life in the US.

 

[Liar]

However, that would mean, by the same token, banning things like books that talk about criminals at all (Poe is out, Faulkner is out, etc.); things that talk about or attempt to explain treachery (Benedict Arnold is out of history, then; and in some interpretations we couldn't talk about the founding fathers at all); we'd have to get rid of books in which fraud takes place (Encyclopedia Brown or Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew), books where people kill other people (there goes horror novels)...

I'll bet (and hope) that this is where the bill will be challenged and the absurdity of it be pointed out.

For what reason is homosexality singled out as the only thing to be banned? Is it because it is
a) illegal? No, as noted above.
b) immoral? No, see above.
c) icky? I think we have enough rulings stating that icky does not equal illegal. Flynt vs Falwell being one of the more famous cases.
d) popular to bash gays? Yeah, I think we have it there.

#L

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I'll bet (and hope) that this is where the bill will be challenged and the absurdity of it be pointed out.

For what reason is homosexality singled out as the only thing to be banned? Is it because it is
a) illegal? No, as noted above.
b) immoral? No, see above.
c) icky? I think we have enough rulings stating that icky does not equal illegal. Flynt vs Falwell being one of the more famous cases.
d) popular to bash gays? Yeah, I think we have it there.

#L

Um.

Homosexuality isn't illegal per se, but consumating a homosexual union is illegal in Alabama. Unless I misremember, any form of sexual contact that isn't for procreation is. The laws are not enforced often, but they do exist. As to constituionality, the Georgia anti-sodomy laws have been upheld by the USSC. So technically, it is illegal.

By the same token, in a state where purchaseing sex toys is illegal, depictions of homosexual relations would easily fall within the USSC definition of obscenity, as obscene is, in part, defined by community standards. So it is quite possible to say homosexuality is imoral as well.

There is no federal law that would superceed these state laws, within the scope of legality/morality. the only possible challenge would be to say free speech or free expression are being hampered. Provided the law is written specifically to keep such material off the shelves in publically funded libraries and institutions and does not prhibit an individual or privately funded facility from having them, it's quite possible the law, should it be passed, would stand up even to federal challenge.

 

[Kassiana]

Do I have to remind everyone of Lawrence v. Texas? Alabama CAN'T prosecute someone for having homosexual sex any more. The Supreme Court has made all such laws unconstitutional.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Do I have to remind everyone of Lawrence v. Texas? Alabama CAN'T prosecute someone for having homosexual sex any more. The Supreme Court has made all such laws unconstitutional.

You are quite incorrect.

The Lawrence ruling struck down the Texas law, but it did not effect the Georgia law.

In specific, Lawrence was challenged, because it made illegal an act between one class of people (gays), while upholding the legality of the same act among another (married, het couples). It was struck down, specifically because it denied equal protection under the law.

The Georgia stautes are quite different, making sodomy illegal no matter who is perfoming the act, reguardless of their age, sex, marital status, etc. The USSC has held that the states are within their reserve powers to mandate certain standards of decencey within their states.

Lawrence is not a defintion case, nor were the effects far reaching, simply because it was challenged on a narrow front, and only defeated along that narrow front. To assume because of lawrence all sodomy laws are now null and void is a fallacy. The case law established there was not about the right of government to intervene in your bedroom, it was about the right of government to create protected and proscribed classes of citizens. As long as the law is applied evenly, states still enjoy the right to prohibit sexual behavior they feel is offensive to the interests of the citizens of that state.

-Colly

 

[rgraham666]

Of all the crimes human beings have legislated out of nothing, blasphemy is the most amazing. With obscenity and indecent exposure fighting it out for second and third place. - Robert A. Heinlein

Not as big a fan of Heinlein's as I used to be. But I believe he was right on this one.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I've been trying to recall which of Shakespeare’s plays are gay.
​

All of them because guys played the female roles.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

His reasoning is... strange.

I...no, he's got a point, and the point is reasonable, but I have to disagree with where that would take us--using the same reasoning.

The point is not reasonable in that few if any of the books he wants to ban advocate a gay lifestyle any more than "Macbeth" advocates regicide or the Book of Genesis advocates sin.

Banning "Streecar Named Desire" or "In Cold Blood" or "Burr" because their authors were gay just outHitlers Hitler.

"Land of the Free" my ass! "Land of the Frightened Bigoted Idiot" is more like it.

 

[sweetnpetite]

However, that would mean, by the same token, banning things like books that talk about criminals at all (Poe is out, Faulkner is out, etc.); things that talk about or attempt to explain treachery (Benedict Arnold is out of history, then; and in some interpretations we couldn't talk about the founding fathers at all); we'd have to get rid of books in which fraud takes place (Encyclopedia Brown or Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew), books where people kill other people (there goes horror novels)...

...no, he's got a point, and the point is reasonable, but I have to disagree with where that would take us--using the same reasoning.

This is not a disagreement, just a jump off from your post.

Why have libraries at all? Books give poeple funny ideas. Characters are always doing terible things, and authors are a largley immoral lot.

Each classroom can have a dictionary, a christian encyclopedia, a bible, and a handfull of approved reference books. You want to study literature- that's what you got the bible for. What more do you need?

 

[sweetnpetite]

I hope everyone is well aware that I have used sarcasm in both posts on this thread. I'm just following the line of reasoning and it where it seems to lead. Probably not very constructive, but what the hell

Doc,

the bible doesn't advocate sin?

damn! I knew I was doin sumpthin wrong!

-C.S.

 

[sweetnpetite]

"Land of the Frightened Bigoted Idiot" is more like it.

Fear is the easiest emotion to manipulate, therefor it is the easiest way to control. I wonder if the lawmakers even really actually give a damn about two guys buttfucking each other or if they just know it's the best way to get up a frenzy and make themselves a hero.

Ya got trouble my friends- I said trouble.
Trouble with a capital T and that rymes with P and that stand for Pool!

 

[sweetnpetite]

Not as big a fan of Heinlein's as I used to be. But I believe he was right on this one.

Well he obviously needs to be banned.

Just think, if he had been banned earlier, you never would have learned a quote like that in the first place, to make such a blasphemous and outrageous argument. Can't you see now how careful tending to the minds and hearts of our youth is a good thing?

 

[sweetnpetite]

Ya Got Trouble
Harold: Well, ya got trouble, my friend.
Right here, I say trouble right here in River City

Why, sure, I'm a billiard player
Certainly mighty proud to say,
I'm always mighty proud to say it
I consider the hours I spend with a cue in my hand are golden
Help you cultivate horse sense and a cool head and a keen eye
'Jever take and try to give an iron clad leave
to yourself from a three-rail billiard shot?

But just as I say it takes judgement, brains and
maturity to score in a balk-line game
I say that any boob can take and shove a ball in a pocket
And I call that sloth,
the first big step on the road to the depths of degreda-
I say, first- medicinal wine from a teaspoon, then beer from a bottle
And the next thing you know your son is playin'for money in a pinchback suit
And listenin' to some big out-o'-town jasper
hear him tell about horserace gamblin'
Not a wholesome trottin' race, no, but a race where they set down right on the horse
Like to see some stuck up jockey boy sittin' on Dan Patch?
Make your blood boil, well I should say

Now, folks, let me show you what I mean
You got one, two, three, four, five, six pockets in a table
Pockets that mark the difference between a gentleman and a bum
With a capital 'B' and that rhymes with 'P' and that stands for 'pool'

And all week long, your River City youth'll be fritterin' away
I say, your young men'll be fritterin'
Fritterin' away their noontime, suppertime, choretime, too
Hit the ball in the pocket

Never mind gettin' dandelions pulled or the screen door
patched or the beefsteak pounded
Never mind pumpin' any water 'til your parents are caught
with a cistern empty on a Saturday night and that's trouble

Oh, ya got lots and lots o' trouble
I'm thinkin' of the kids in the knickerbockers shirttails,
young ones peekin' in the pool hall window after school
Ya got trouble, folks, right here in River City
with a capital 'T' and that rhymes with 'P' and that
stands for 'pool'

Now I know all you folks are the right kind of parents
I'm gonna be perfectly frank
Would you like to know what kind of conversation goes on
while they're loafin' around that hall
They'll be tryin' out Bevo, tryin' out Cubebs,
tryin' out tailor-mades like cigarette fiends
And braggin' all about how they're gonna cover up
a tell-tale breath with Sen-Sen
Now one fine night they leave the pool hall
headin' for the dance at the Armory
Libertine men and scarlet women and ragtime
Shameless music that'll grab your son, your daughter
into the arms of a jungle animal instinct- massteria!
Friends, the idle brain is the devil's playground, trouble!


Townspeople: Oh, we got trouble

Harold: Right here in River City

Townspeople: Right here in River City

Harold: With a capital 'T' and that rhymes with 'P' and that
stands for 'pool'

Townspeople: That stands for pool

Harold: We surely got trouble

Townspeople: We surely got trouble

Harold: Right here in River City

Townspeople: Right here

Harold: Gotta figure out a way to keep the young ones
moral after school

Townspeople: 'trouble'

Harold: Mothers of River City,
heed this warning before it's too late
Watch for the tell-tale signs of corruption
The minute your son leaves the house
does he rebuckle his knickerbockers below the knee?
Is there a nicotine stain on his index finger?
A dime novel hidden in the corncrib?
Is he starting to memorize jokes
from Cap'n Billy's Whizbang?
Are certain words creeping into his conversation?
Words like... swell?
And... 'so's your old man'?

Well if so, my friends...

Ya got trouble

Townspeople: Oh, we got trouble

Harold: Right here in River City

Townspeople: Right here in River City

Harold: With a capital 'T' and that rhymes with 'P' and that stands for 'pool'

Townspeople: That stands for pool

Harold: We've surely got trouble

Townspeople: We surely got trouble

Harold: Right here in River City

Townspeople: Right here

Harold: Remember the Maine, Plymouth Rock and the Golden Rule?
Oho, we got trouble
We're in terrible, terrible trouble
That game with the fifteen numbered balls is the devil's tool

Townspeople: Devil's tool

Harold: Yes, we've got trouble, trouble, trouble

Townspeople: Oh, yes, we got trouble here, we got big, big trouble

Harold: With a 'T'

Townspeople: With a capital 'T'

Harold: And that rhymes with 'P'

Townspeople: That rhymes with 'P'

Harold: And that stands for pool

Townspeople: That stands for pool

Harold: Remember my friends, listen to me,
because I pass this way but once

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Another problem with this proposed law is that it's de facto discriminatory. He wants to stop the state from spending money on books written by homosexuals, which amounts to discrimination based on sexual orientation. I believe that's unconstitutional.

What's to keep them from not buying books written by black or Jewish or Catholic authors then?

Despite what this yahoo wants to dom the law still has to pass judicial review. They don't own all the judges down there, do they? Not yet, anyway.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Another problem with this proposed law is that it's de facto discriminatory. He wants to stop the state from spending money on books written by homosexuals, which amounts to discrimination based on sexual orientation. I believe that's unconstitutional.

What's to keep them from not buying books written by black or Jewish or Catholic authors then?

Despite what this yahoo wants to dom the law still has to pass judicial review. They don't own all the judges down there, do they? Not yet, anyway.

They own the vast majority Doc.

 

[rgraham666]

People like Rep. Allen want to make sure that no change ever happens again in the world.

As John Wyndham pointed out in 'The Chrysalids', there's only one place where there is no change. And that place is among the fossils.

Perhaps we ought to look at these people as being not unlike the duck billed platypus. A living fossil left over from once upon a time, of interest to scientists and science geeks, but not a thing of real significance.

 

[SeaCat]

ya know, my wife read this thread. (As well as the linked articles.) She thought about it for a while, then had a couple of questions/comments about this guy.

A) When was the last time he got laid? (Yep, that's my wife all right.)
B) Does he expect all women to bow before him and worship the water he walks upon?
C) When is he going to start banning the truly terrible books? The ones which might even cause a person to think? Books like the Koran, The Talmud, Farenheit 451, Encyclopedia Britanica, Blackstones Book on laws, etc.

Cat

 

[rgraham666]

ya know, my wife read this thread. (As well as the linked articles.) She thought about it for a while, then had a couple of questions/comments about this guy.

A) When was the last time he got laid? (Yep, that's my wife all right.)
B) Does he expect all women to bow before him and worship the water he walks upon?
C) When is he going to start banning the truly terrible books? The ones which might even cause a person to think? Books like the Koran, The Talmud, Farenheit 451, Encyclopedia Britanica, Blackstones Book on laws, etc.

Cat

Shhh! Don't give him any ideas!

 

[SeaCat]

Shhh! Don't give him any ideas!

LOLOLOL
Although I somehow don't think we have to worry about him scanning this site. He might have to have a wank, thereby invalidating his beliefs.

Cat

My theory about people who want to ban all porn is so they can have the only porn in town.

 

[cloudy]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I got as far as Burley's "surprised they can read" comment.

Please, get off it, folks.

I know it's loads and loads of fun to bash the south.....I've seen it enough to know just how much most of you non-southerners relish the chance, but I'm so sick and fucking tired of comments like that that I could puke.

Yep, the whole deal is wrong, but so is claiming that everyone in the south is ignorant, racist, rednecks.

Get over it.

Oh, wait, ignore my post. I forgot.....I can't read....Please forgive me.

 

[Dar~]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I got as far as Burley's "surprised they can read" comment.

Please, get off it, folks.

I know it's loads and loads of fun to bash the south.....I've seen it enough to know just how much most of you non-southerners relish the chance, but I'm so sick and fucking tired of comments like that that I could puke.

Yep, the whole deal is wrong, but so is claiming that everyone in the south is ignorant, racist, rednecks.

Get over it.

Oh, wait, ignore my post. I forgot.....I can't read....Please forgive me.

I am sure they weren't refering to all southerners. Just this one and his supporters. It seems that free speech will always be a dream and an aspirition never a reality.

 

[cloudy]

I am sure they weren't refering to all southerners. Just this one and his supporters. It seems that free speech will always be a dream and an aspirition never a reality.

Yeah? Here you go:

In defence of gay(?) Literature, I would like Allen to answer just one simple question.

What proof does he have that the thugs he is trying to protect patronize a library — ANY library!

Indeed, what make him think that they can read?

(can't help but say "what make her think they cant?"(sic))

and:

we need an emoticon for clapping, just for Burly

and my personal favorite:

Hmmm...

Serves them thar faggots right fer what they're doing to awwwr cunt-ry....

*spit*

Lesss git them niggers next...

Yeah...

Lovely, simply lovely.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I love the South.

 

[shereads]

Carson, I don't think you should go around saying that our free speech is under attack. That kind of talk gives our enemies the wrong idea and undermines the War on Terror.