Open warning

[SeaCat]

Tonight, I am on, to steal a title, The Warpath.

I am more than a little upset. I have had my honor brought into question. To those of you who know me, you know this is something which is likely to inspire things like deadly, destructive rages. (Especially when it is done by one who has no place to bring my honor into question, they have no right because they have no honor.)

If I upset you by my posts or replies take this into acount.
If you have no understanding of what I'm talking about, then woe to you.

Cat

 

[Guest]

Tonight, I am on, to steal a title, The Warpath.

I am more than a little upset. I have had my honor brought into question. To those of you who know me, you know this is something which is likely to inspire things like deadly, destructive rages. (Especially when it is done by one who has no place to bring my honor into question, they have no right because they have no honor.)

If I upset you by my posts or replies take this into acount.
If you have no understanding of what I'm talking about, then woe to you.

Cat

Can I make you a rum and coke? I make them very well - dark sweet rum, cherry coke, lime juice, tasty tasty tasty.

We can kick back, have a few, solve the world's problems.

And then tell me which asshole is bothering you - I'd love to help.

 

[cloudy]

Can I make you a rum and coke? I make them very well - dark sweet rum, cherry coke, lime juice, tasty tasty tasty.

We can kick back, have a few, solve the world's problems.

And then tell me which asshole is bothering you - I'd love to help.

I'll take one.

 

[Guest]

I'll take one.

Done, gorgeous.

 

[entitled]

Cat?

i'm offering my PM box, if needed, or wanted. Open invitation. Vent at will.

 

[cloudy]

Done, gorgeous.

You're so good to me.

 

[SeaCat]

This is hard for me. Many of you have read my comments about a certain young lady. Some of you have even connected the dots and figured out that she was in a very rough relationship. She got herself free, on her own. Without her families help. (They supported the husband.)

Many of you know of me and my wifes feelings towards this lady.

Many of you know of how seriously I take things like friendship, and family.

Many of you even know of how if this young lady were to become my lover she would fall under my protection, how she would get the same treatment and protection as my wife. How this is not just a matter of the heart, but becomes a matter of honor.

Now I find that one of her brothers, one of those who did nothing to protect her, one of those who in fact tried to hinder her, is calling my honor into question. Now I find myself running into something that is not nice, something that is likely to be answered in ways that are not what I want. Now I find myself running into a matter of honor.

It enrages me. It causes me to become more than just a little angry. It causes me to weep for this young lady, (in all senses of the word) who is pulled in too many directions.

She was over at our house this afternoon, crying on my shoulder because her brother has decided he doesn't like me, he doesn't feel that I am good for her. He feels that I am going to hurt her. He has informed her that he doesn't want her to see me and my wife, he doesn't want her to have any dealings with us.

I want, against my wishes, to meet him. I want to revert to what I once was and that scares me.

My wife, bless her heart understands and agrees with me, except for me meeting him. She too doesn't want me to revert, but she understands as she feels the same way I do for this young lady.

I am torn, I am hurt, and I am enraged.

Cat

 

[LadyJeanne]

I am torn, I am hurt, and I am enraged.

Cat

Cat, I respect you and I respect that your intentions are good. However, keep in mind that this isn't about you. This is about your young lady and the best way to defend your honor and to protect her is not to do anything that will make things harder for her. And you know if you give in to your impulses, her brother will never see you for the good and kind man you are, and he will always make his sister's life a living hell for as long as she knows you. Think big picture.

As always, think of your own family first.

 

[yui]

I am torn, I am hurt, and I am enraged.

Cat

*hugs* Cat. For what it is worth, I think you are a wonderful, honorable man.

 

[cantdog]

People don't think other people are good for people (if you follow me) all the time. Frequently they are wrong. Sometimes they are right. I've seen it both ways.

In Saudi Arabia, a woman told by a male relative not to associate with someone would be obliged to do so. Saudi Arabia has no such thing as women's rights. But this lady is not bound by purdah. She is free, until Bush & Co. get their way, even in Florida. The thing is called freedom of association, and it is intended for all.

The brother is entitled to his opinion, and the lady is entitled to go ahead with her life as she sees fit.

So it seems to me. But I have no honor, and I am cold, because I am northern.

 

[cloudy]

Cat, I learned a long time ago that we cannot control the actions or reactions of others - not even a little bit. All we can do is control our own.

BUT that doesn't mean we are powerless. In fact, far from it. We have complete and total control over ourselves, and we control our reactions to the actions of others, even though that is hard to fathom at times.

I can understand that you are hurt, and I also understand the rage. I'm in that place sometimes, as well.

In the scheme of things, just how important is this person's opinion of you? I bet it isn't, not even a little bit. If I'm right, then brush it off (even though I know that's hard).

The young lady in question must be a very strong person, or she wouldn't have gotten herself out of the situation she was in. Trust her. Trust her to do whatever it is SHE decides to do, regardless of what her brother, or anyone else for that matter, wants her to do. I'm willing to bet that she has the inner fortitude to do that.

Just a thought.

 

[Guest]

Honor is a word that many men feel is just that... a word... something to throw around, something that they just believe that they have, something that they don't have to work at or for....

many men are like that....

however.... there are some, the few... those that know no other way of being.... but to behave with this mythical word deeply embedded in their bodies and souls....

and sometimes.... we are lucky enough to meet them and know them

ignore those that must use a dictionary to find the definition of honor

 

[cantdog]

I deliberately eschew honor. It is destructive. Cat knows what I mean.

 

[SeaCat]

Cat, I respect you and I respect that your intentions are good. However, keep in mind that this isn't about you. This is about your young lady and the best way to defend your honor and to protect her is not to do anything that will make things harder for her. And you know if you give in to your impulses, her brother will never see you for the good and kind man you are, and he will always make his sister's life a living hell for as long as she knows you. Think big picture.

As always, think of your own family first.

Lady Jeanne,

As Always I think of other first. My wife is above all others. She is followed by those I hold close, including my friend. I of course come last.

What enrages me the most is not the insult to my honor, whicb is bad enough, but the insult to her. She has had the strength to go against her families wishes and get rid of her abusive husband. She has stood on her own, raising her two children into two of the most respectful, well mannered children I have ever met. Now this, this lowly little ibecile wishes to tell her who she can and can;'t see because he doesn't think me and my wife would be good for her. He who could not be bothered, who could not see past his machismo to interpose himslef wishes to stop her. That is what truly bothers me. He who is without honor tries to impose his views and lay low the honor of another.

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

*hugs* Cat. For what it is worth, I think you are a wonderful, honorable man.

You, darling Yui are among the few I think who truly understand. Those who do know who they are.

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

Honor is a word that many men feel is just that... a word... something to throw around, something that they just believe that they have, something that they don't have to work at or for....

many men are like that....

however.... there are some, the few... those that know no other way of being.... but to behave with this mythical word deeply embedded in their bodies and souls....

and sometimes.... we are lucky enough to meet them and know them

ignore those that must use a dictionary to find the definition of honor

Honor is not a word. It is an understanding within yourself. It is an agreement with yourself. It is a world view, it is an anchor, and above all it is a mentality. Without it I would not have lived this long, nor would I have done many of the things I have done.

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

I deliberately eschew honor. It is destructive. Cat knows what I mean.

I understand what you mean, and I agree to some extent. What yout alk about is what used to be called false honor. True honor, to use an experience we are familiar with, is to go back into that burning building knowing it may be a lost cause to find one of our own. True honor is heading out in the middle of a blizzard to help some damned fool who decided he just had to drive home and didn't make it. True honor, is making that call when you know there is no hope, and living with it. Yes Cant, I do know what you mean.

Cat

 

[Guest]

Honor is not a word. It is an understanding within yourself. It is an agreement with yourself. It is a world view, it is an anchor, and above all it is a mentality. Without it I would not have lived this long, nor would I have done many of the things I have done.

Cat

This is apparently not my day to convey anything using the written word. My apologies for not making what I meant clearer. I am not even going to try and fix it.

I wish you well.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Lady Jeanne,

As Always I think of other first. My wife is above all others. She is followed by those I hold close, including my friend. I of course come last.

What enrages me the most is not the insult to my honor, whicb is bad enough, but the insult to her. She has had the strength to go against her families wishes and get rid of her abusive husband. She has stood on her own, raising her two children into two of the most respectful, well mannered children I have ever met. Now this, this lowly little ibecile wishes to tell her who she can and can;'t see because he doesn't think me and my wife would be good for her. He who could not be bothered, who could not see past his machismo to interpose himslef wishes to stop her. That is what truly bothers me. He who is without honor tries to impose his views and lay low the honor of another.

Cat

Then your quest is to help her keep her strength and stand up to him.
This woman's life has been filled with men who think they have the right to impose their wishes on her- her father, I'm sure, and her brothers casually instilled this submissive attitude into her. Now she's fighting, not only the men of her past, but the thing in herself that tells her they are right.

You can't take this asshole on, Cat, she has to. It's her brother, her demon, personified.
You can help her do that, though, with all the patience, tact, and fortitude you can summon.

 

[entitled]

You know, it says a lot that she came to you despite her brother. This, to me, is a good sign. And by doing nothing to pressure her, or against her brother, you are doing the most honorable thing available at the moment.

But you know that.

i'm just sorry it happens at all in this world.

 

[SeaCat]

Cat, I learned a long time ago that we cannot control the actions or reactions of others - not even a little bit. All we can do is control our own.

BUT that doesn't mean we are powerless. In fact, far from it. We have complete and total control over ourselves, and we control our reactions to the actions of others, even though that is hard to fathom at times.

I can understand that you are hurt, and I also understand the rage. I'm in that place sometimes, as well.

In the scheme of things, just how important is this person's opinion of you? I bet it isn't, not even a little bit. If I'm right, then brush it off (even though I know that's hard).

The young lady in question must be a very strong person, or she wouldn't have gotten herself out of the situation she was in. Trust her. Trust her to do whatever it is SHE decides to do, regardless of what her brother, or anyone else for that matter, wants her to do. I'm willing to bet that she has the inner fortitude to do that.

Just a thought.

Yes Cloudy, she is a very strong lady. (She put a knife into his guts when he decided beating her wasn't enough and went after her children.) I trust her as I trust my wife. I trust her with my honor. It is only one of her brothers who questions me, but he is the most vocal of them. He is also the one who has been in trouble way too many times for B.S. but his voice does carry weight. (You know, I'm sure, the type.) When she decides what she will do I of course will abide by that. If it is to include my wife and myself in her life, then she will be included in ours regardless of what her brother thinks or say. The hard part for her and myself I am sure is what his reaction will be. She knows him, but she knows e as well. She knows my nickname and how I came by it. She knows that if push comes to shove I will stand. I do not wish that she has to make this decision, I do not wish that she has to decide. (even though I think I know what her decision would be.) I would not wish these things upon anyone but myself.

Maybe I am old fashioned. I am the kind who would take the hurt from others and heap it upon myself. I am the kind who thinks taking up the cause and helping those who need help is a good thing. I believe that what you give, if given freely will come back to you. I also believe that ones love does not diminish but grows stronger the more you love. Maybe, just aybe I am a romantic and doomed to a life of misery, but I can hope.

Cat

 

[Guest]

Cat -

I agree with Stella in this matter. It is her fight, not yours.

Unless she actually feels she must abide by his wishes I'll bet she can handle her pissant brother.

Be there to back her up, just as you always have.

 

[SeaCat]

This is apparently not my day to convey anything using the written word. My apologies for not making what I meant clearer. I am not even going to try and fix it.

I wish you well.

Believe me, I do understand what you mean.

Cat

 

[cantdog]

Stella is right.

Cloudy had a real pithy one, too.

Trust her. Trust her to do whatever it is SHE decides to do, regardless of what her brother, or anyone else for that matter, wants her to do. I'm willing to bet that she has the inner fortitude to do that.

And you can help; chances are you already have. You couldn't possibly have neglected to tell her that you stand ready to support her decisions, and you couldn't have withheld your empathy. She will do the right thing, and because of you, she will be able to do it the more easily. People need friends. Love is powerful. Had she been alone and friendless, she would have had a much harder time.

It's still a blow to be thwarted by the family, abandoned to abuse by the family. She can be allowed a few tears on that account. But she will straighten her spine and walk her path, and part of the confidence to do that will be her knowledge that she has true friends.

 

[SeaCat]

Then your quest is to help her keep her strength and stand up to him.
This woman's life has been filled with men who think they have the right to impose their wishes on her- her father, I'm sure, and her brothers casually instilled this submissive attitude into her. Now she's fighting, not only the men of her past, but the thing in herself that tells her they are right.

You can't take this asshole on, Cat, she has to. It's her brother, her demon, personified.
You can help her do that, though, with all the patience, tact, and fortitude you can summon.

Stella,

I am always there for her. She knows this. What is hard is that she must make this choice. In days of old there was such a thing as a field of honor. In cases like this it is too bad this has gone by the wayside.

Cat