Op/Ed about the anti-war movement. (C&P)

modest mouse

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The Case Against the Anti-War Movement
And against Bush's version of the war

by Ian Williams

SHOULD A MURDERER GO FREE JUST because the LAPD contains racist thugs? The O.J. dilemma applies to Saddam Hussein as well. The case against him is weakened when made by clear wackos like Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Cheney. But there is a case. And on the other side, if ever I'm in the dock, heaven help me from having defenders like former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and others from the anti-war brigade.

One of the problems with being anti-war in this country is that you find yourself in such very mixed -- and often mixed-up -- company. It might not make you pro-war, but it can certainly incline you toward being anti-anti-war.

All too often, being anti-war is a contortion, not a position. To begin with is the question of which war you are against. Since Vietnam, the anti-warriors often advance an ad hoc catalog of mutually opposed positions orbiting one central tenet: The U.S. is always wrong.

This absolutism is wrong in principle, and it's also bad politics. After all, it's hardly likely to attract the majority support of Americans, who, as we've seen since 9/11, are more likely to wave the flag than a peace sign. It does help the purists to isolate their enemies, since any quibbling makes you a retrospective supporter of the Vietnam War.

Different groups will give different reasons for opposing The War. The Quakers are genuinely anti-war -- which is a perfectly respectable position, if not much use when confronted with warmongers like Adolf Hitler, Slobodan Milosevic and Saddam Hussein. At least pacifists tend to be consistent.

Other anti-warriors are quite prepared to praise famous warmongers -- as long as they are not American. Mercifully, few were prepared to risk tarring and feathering by suggesting that al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden were doing the Lord's work, although some came dangerously close with odious comparisons and excuses for 9/11. Many anti-warriors seem to think that supporting recidivist warmongers like Slobodan Milosevic or Saddam Hussein was perfectly consonant with being "anti-war." For them, war is what the U.S. does, not its opponents.

When it comes to concern for the effect of intervention on the locals, doublethink can really go into overdrive. Most Kosovars clearly welcomed intervention, and Afghans in general gave every appearance of being happy to be liberated when the imperialist forces of aggression rode in. But your average anti-warrior does not really want the victims enfranchised. It is the principle of intervention that is wrong. The practical effects on ordinary people are really irrelevant.

Anti-war absolutists have two fallback positions: that the victims are no saints themselves, or that the intervention will only make things worse and so the natives should be left to fight it out for themselves. It's a long way from the Abraham Lincoln Brigade going to fight in the Spanish Civil War.

Often the same people who made excuses for Milosevic, by declaring that Bosnian Muslims had committed war crimes and Serbs had suffered from them, then tried to ignore Slobodan Milosevic's crimes or even go as far as Ramsey Clark to embrace and defend the mass murderer. They do have a point, even if it is far from conclusive. Victims are not always heroes. However, while we can assume statistically that the 2,802 casualties from last September 11 included a number of embezzlers of the poor, beaters of spouses and abusers of infants, there is no way that condones the crime.

If you can't impugn the victims, the next recourse is to attack the motivation of the would-be rescuers. This is easy. Most nations, like most people, operate on a sliding scale of altruism and self-interest. So if the U.S. does good things from bad motives -- what? -- we should oppose it? Luckily for Europeans, they did not refuse tainted U.S. help in getting rid of Hitler.

SO THEN WE COME TO THE CURRENT war we are all supposed to be against. I see a case for international action against Saddam Hussein, even if it's certainly not the one the administration is making. The Axis of Evil spiel is the product of the Hub of Hypocrisy in the White House. It is clearly in breach of international law for one country, even with God on its side, to overthrow the regime of another.

At the beginning of September, someone in the administration finally convinced the White House that unilateral overthrow of Saddam Hussein was indeed illegal, set a bad precedent and was supported only by Ariel Sharon -- hardly a paragon of international lawfulness. Sometime in the last week or so, someone helped Bush see that by focusing on Iraq's defiance of U.N. resolutions, particularly about inspections, he could provide a multilateral Kevlar fig leaf for a regime change.

In his speech to the U.N. last week, no matter how hypocritically, and no matter how unconvincing his last-minute conversion to multilateralism, George Bush laid out what many delegates concluded was a strong case for action to force the Iraqi regime into compliance with the host of U.N. resolutions. Admittedly, some of the stuff about the connections to terrorism was far-fetched, but this was more of the O.J. approach, tantamount to trying to frame a guilty man.

Of course, the administration's earlier threats and its past practice morally and politically weaken the case it makes legally. For example, by threatening to veto any resolution offering condemnation, let alone consequences, for Sharon's behavior, such as his refusal to admit U.N. inspectors to Jenin, it lost points both morally and politically. Its previous bluster about its intention to go alone to Baghdad also clearly shows that the maintenance of international order was not always its highest priority.

However, the charge sheet is still substantial. A U.N. commission found Iraq to be the aggressor against Iran in one of the bloodiest wars since 1945. No sooner had it finished than Iraq invaded Kuwait and annexed it, thereby flouting one of the basic provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, which was set up precisely to stop that sort of thing.

After months of sanctions and being asked to leave, Iraq was thrown out of Kuwait by a U.N.-mandated coalition, and, faced with continuing hostilities that would have overthrown his regime, Saddam Hussein cried "Uncle," and agreed to all the terms imposed by the U.N. Security Council -- including inspections to verify disarmament. Iraq has repeatedly tried to conceal weapons programs that were in direct violation of its own international treaty commitments.

Domestically, since Saddam Hussein shot his way into power, he has killed far more Iraqis than Sharon has killed Palestinians. It is a sad truth that in those days before Kosovo and Rwanda, it was accepted that nobody could do anything about his using chemical and biological warfare against his own citizens, not to mention the more conventional bestiality of deportation, torture and mass murder.

It is also a sad fact that since Iraq was fighting against Iran, most of the West and the Soviets were prepared to overlook his domestic atrocities, and to cover up his use of poison gas against the Iranians -- although that did not stop the president this week from shamelessly citing the behavior of Iraq as erstwhile ally to condemn Iraq the present enemy.

There is an old and worrying saying, "Let justice be done, though the sky fall in." I'm far from convinced that George Bush has thought enough about how to stop that from happening. Nor do I see Sharon or Bush as particularly qualified as agents of justice. Even so, if Saddam Hussein says that the U.N. inspectors can come in "over my dead body," there will be no cause to shed tears if he gets what he asks for.

The United Nations is a deeply flawed institution -- susceptible to misuse and abuse by the great powers. But many governments around the world are grateful that the U.S. is going through due procedure rather than leading a lynch mob to get Saddam Hussein.

It would be good if the war could be avoided. However, those who genuinely want to stop it should at least have been calling for Saddam Hussein to admit the U.N.'s inspectors, immediately and unconditionally. And they should also be asking for him to stand down. Indeed, they should ask for an international tribunal to try him. They could even ask the Security Council to empower the new International Criminal Court, opposed so bitterly by the Bush administration, to try him.
 
i am anti war ... and i think everyone should be anti war ... because the alternative is pro war ... people that are pro war were people like adolf hitler ... i still understand that sometimes there is no choice about going to war but even if that happened i'd still be anti war ... i wouldn't enjoy it


the problem i have about the way iraq was handled is that it was handled at the start in a pro war manner (for whatever reason) they didn't try to avoid war

first off they tell us they dont want to talk about the war and we're talk about it later and then they suddenly say oh by way they will have nuclear weapons in a months time ... um so why didn't we discuss that before ? ... maybe instead of telling us not to discuss it we should of been forcing the weapon inspectors in earlier
 
Last I heard, the President didn't have the Constitutional authority to declare war. So, recent Presidents (let's say all those after WWII) use the UN and outright lies to make declarations of war and pretend that's not what they're doing.

This is a problem.

I'm a pacifist in any case, though.

Lumping all anti-war protestors together, as though all the same people have been onboard for anti-war protest for all of the last fifty years or so, is just stupid. I wasn't even *born* for most of the big anti-war eras in this country, so where do I fit in?

Sometimes, people work awfully hard to miss the point.
 
It's always nice to have people on both sides of the fence. It's what makes this country so great. In order for democracy to work, we need people of opposing views that are willing to lay it down for their beliefs....not meaning that we should have a civil war....just meaning that in an age of "sellouts", it's nice to have people with actual convictions that stick with their beliefs.

As far as the war goes, my wife is in the Army, so she could be sent off at any time. She joined the Army, for the good and the bad, and she will go if she is ordered to do so. She and I may not fully support the idea of rushing off to war, but she will do her Constitutional duty.

That said, I think that war should be the last option, not the first. There are lots of pros and cons to weigh, and rushing the war makes it seem like we don't care about the cons.

I saw an interview on PBS last night, with a female, Indian pacifist...I never did catch her name. Anyways, she said that it is highly hypocritical of the USA to tell India and Pakistan not to go to war for their own seemingly valid reasons, yet in the next breath, we threaten war with Iraq. She said that India and Pakistan will more than likely follow our example if we do go to war with Iraq...and that would lead to nuclear war between the two countries.

One of our main problems is that we have a lot of imperialists/industrialists who refuse to give up power. This country has the capability to create alternative fuels and alternative power sources that would cut off our reliance to oil, yet the industrialists see it as too much of a bother. It would cost them too much money to switch from an oil dependant, out-moded system to one that is clean and cheap. So until we have fixed this problem, we will continue to worry about the "stability" of the oil rich areas of the world.
 
sexy-girl said:
i am anti war ... and i think everyone should be anti war ... because the alternative is pro war ...

That's fuzzy thinking -- Pro-war or anti-war aren't the only choices.

War and threats of war are diplomatic tools for advancing a country's self-interests.

I'm NOT "pro-war" because I've been to war, and I've had friends and family who have been to war before and after the war I was in. Nobody with any experience of war is "Pro-war." Neither are they, in general, "anti-war."

I definitely don't want a "stupid war" like Vietnam was, and I don't want to see people sent to die for some rich man's profit margin.

However, I'm not going to wear blinders and press for more finger-shaking, sanctions and pompous resolutions when it's apparent they are having the desired effect.
 
Weird Harold said:




War and threats of war are diplomatic tools for advancing a country's self-interests.




true....

not all war is that of a country wanting to expand it's borders.
 
Weird Harold said:
War and threats of war are diplomatic tools for advancing a country's self-interests.


i think violence and threats of violence in the big wide world still have the same effect as on the playground they might make countries fear you but you don't gain respect

harold you're right about saying it was fuzzy logic by me i know there is plenty of in-betweens ... would you rather be seen as anti war though or pro war ? just curious

i am anti war but i know there is still times when you do need to go to war
 
sexy-girl said:
would you rather be seen as anti war though or pro war ? just curious

I'd prefer not to be seen as either, because I'm in favor of some wars and against others. I prefer to be seen as as realist that considers each situation on it's merits rather than someone wedded to any particualr dogmatic, knee-jerk response to the word "war."
 
This is a pointless argument now LOL....Iraq won't abide by new UN resolutions. So this is the end for Saddam for sure. I guess Kofi Annan is out of the running for a Nobel Prize this year huh?
 
and i respect you for that harold ... i dont think anti war people are having a knee jerk reaction though i think they just have a different set of ideas and values im a realist while being anti war

bob at least he tried and maybe they would of been more successful without bush doing all the sabre rattling
 
modest mouse said:
SHOULD A MURDERER GO FREE JUST because the LAPD contains racist thugs? The O.J. dilemma applies to Saddam Hussein as well. [/B]

Um.... that's not why OJ went free.
 
sexy-girl said:
and i respect you for that harold ... i dont think anti war people are having a knee jerk reaction though i think they just have a different set of ideas and values im a realist while being anti war

Do you approach a situation thinking, What else can we do to avoid war? OR What's the best way to resolve this situation quickly? (I think we can rule out the "Pro-war" mindset of, What's the best way to kick ass? for your choices. ;))

In many situations, war or or the threat of war are the most efficient and least deadly means of achieving an objective and "trying every possible way to avoid war" simply prolongs the situation.

I firmly believe that Saddam would never have even considered allowing inspectors back without the "sabre-rattling." Whether that was the goal or not, I don't know -- it doesn't appear to have been, but perhaps the continued sabre-rattling is to maintain the pressure so he'll actually let the inspectors in and let them do their job this time.
 
Weird Harold said:


Do you approach a situation thinking, What else can we do to avoid war? OR What's the best way to resolve this situation quickly?


i try to balance between those two things but i do for sure lean towards how else can we avoid war

i think if there is a war with iraq there could be a huge amount of innocent lives lost and most of those will be on the iraqi side

sure saddam shouldnt beable to hide behind his people but it still has to be a massive consideration


i think countries in the middle east just see the west as arrogent and bullies and also when saddam says its all about oil well he doesn't exactly sound crazy because the us/uk hadnt done much to dismiss that kind of argument
 
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