OOC for THE AFFAIRS OF KAITAIN: A Role-Play of Dune
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JawnKarTurr
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I will be posting it soon to advance the plot...
Hard_Rom
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At the rate this thread is advancing, you have oodles of time.
KaseE
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Hard_Rom
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EmpressJosephine
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Movie vs. Mini-Series
Having seen the David Lynch Dune movie a few times, I decided to start watching the Syfy Channel mini-series.
I'm surprised that, given that they had more time to play with, the producers of the mini-series strayed much farther from the book than they did in the movie. I prefer the aesthetics of the movie, too. Still, I'm enjoying the miniseries.
Having seen the David Lynch Dune movie a few times, I decided to start watching the Syfy Channel mini-series.
I'm surprised that, given that they had more time to play with, the producers of the mini-series strayed much farther from the book than they did in the movie. I prefer the aesthetics of the movie, too. Still, I'm enjoying the miniseries.
EmpressJosephine
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Yes, the weirding module was an annoying NON-necessity in the movie. On the other hand, in the mini-series, the characters' personalities, sequence and details of events, and motivations are very different from the book in what I've seen so far. Paul is too petulant (and blonde!). Leto is too emotional (and blonde!). Yueh is too stiff, etc.
A good example of how details and motivations are different is the hunter-seeker attack in Paul's bedroom. There is an extra character there in the mini-series. (Is that serving girl going to turn out to be Chani? Tell me how that fits with the book!) In the book, the hunter-seeker attack was part of the overall Harkonnen plan. They knew the Atreides would expect a major attack, and that was supposed to make them think it had happened to give Yueh more freedom to act afterward. In the mini-series, it was something Rabban did on his own against the Baron's wishes.
True, the mini-series goes into more detail, but many of those details are quite different from the book. More importantly, the movie was truer to the characters, especially of Paul and Leto, than the mini-series. Still, I'm enjoying it.
Hard_Rom
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Most times when I watch movies based on books, it is to get a visual impression of things. Costumes and settings. No movie can do justice to a good book. Even a multipart mini-series or put out as a trilogy. LOTR was butchered even worse.
An we also have the heart plugs on Harkonnen slaves and Thufir having to milk that poor cat for the antidote to the residual poison in the movie.
I bet we fans can do better justice to the books with a bit of work.
An we also have the heart plugs on Harkonnen slaves and Thufir having to milk that poor cat for the antidote to the residual poison in the movie.
I bet we fans can do better justice to the books with a bit of work.
Aussie_Wolf
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Oh I agree, most movies from books butcher them up, mostly due to time restraints of course. They have two hours to condense what is probably 50 hrs of a good book so some things have to go, but most decide to sacrifice key plot points in favor of action scenes which is annoying. Some even change characters entirely to suit the movie they want. (Don't get me started on the X-Men).
LOTR while not bad left so much out plot wise it was basically an action movie.
I have just started to watch the Shannara Chronicles and uhh so many faults in that as well, although it is not bad in itself.
Just wish producers would stop messing with good books.
LOTR while not bad left so much out plot wise it was basically an action movie.
I have just started to watch the Shannara Chronicles and uhh so many faults in that as well, although it is not bad in itself.
Just wish producers would stop messing with good books.
JawnKarTurr
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I happened to like the 1984 film....
But now knowing what I know about the books I understand people's distaste. Still though I enjoy the film. A Flash Gordon fanatic thought the 1980's film needed to be destroyed. I calmly replied I enjoyed it....
That said last few days have been a reset, but I'm back. So I'm expecting an invite from a discrete official visitor? I am being summoned to where to discuss my future employment for my character?
But now knowing what I know about the books I understand people's distaste. Still though I enjoy the film. A Flash Gordon fanatic thought the 1980's film needed to be destroyed. I calmly replied I enjoyed it....
That said last few days have been a reset, but I'm back. So I'm expecting an invite from a discrete official visitor? I am being summoned to where to discuss my future employment for my character?
Hard_Rom
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I had my character receive a note given to him by a tavern serving girl. The Molyvisian Embassy. Security should be improved over my characters visit. The Countess ordered a lock-down so armed guards should be at doors/gates.
Just give your name, her Vice-Chamberlain NPC will bring you in to the office she is occupying.
Just give your name, her Vice-Chamberlain NPC will bring you in to the office she is occupying.
Hard_Rom
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Warmaster was a title often given to generals of a House during the time of the Faufreluches. The title was often used as a reference to military leaders who had established a reputation in battle, and who could instruct others in the art of war.
Swordmaster is a title awarded to warriors attaining a certain level of skill in the Ginaz School, during the time of the Faufreluches. Conceivably, many Great Houses maintained their own Swordmasters as commanders, teachers, and personal guards for their family members.
A Swordmaster was a graduate of the Ginaz School. This sort of merc had a diploma to put on his resume.
A Warmaster may or may not have been a Swordmaster. Gurney Halleck, Duke Leto I Warmaster, was a graduate of the Harkonnen slave-fighting pits. No fancy diploma for him.
The school of hard knocks versus recognized diploma. A Swordmaster could serve as a Warmaster but you had to have attended the school on Ginaz to be called a Swordmaster.
Duncan Idaho did serve for a time as both Swordmaster and Warmaster for Paul Atreides.
A Swordmaster of sufficient level (10th) could beat Sardaukar. A Warmaster may or may not have been able to best a Sardaukar. Halleck might have been able to.
Sort of like the Specialist versus the Generalist. Although little to choose between the skills of Gurney and Duncan.
Sardaukar, Swordmasters, Warmasters and Fremen fighters are meat in the bare hands of Bene Gesserit adepts.
Sardaukar fight in threes back to back. Have shigawire garrottes entwined in their hair and maybe even a false toe containing comms device, explosives etc.
Sardaukar are fanatics and willingly use terror as a tactic. It is their fighting skills which keep the Corrinos in power. Not to be beaten until the Atreides combined Fremen ferocity with BG weirding ways of fighting.
Swordmaster is a title awarded to warriors attaining a certain level of skill in the Ginaz School, during the time of the Faufreluches. Conceivably, many Great Houses maintained their own Swordmasters as commanders, teachers, and personal guards for their family members.
A Swordmaster was a graduate of the Ginaz School. This sort of merc had a diploma to put on his resume.
A Warmaster may or may not have been a Swordmaster. Gurney Halleck, Duke Leto I Warmaster, was a graduate of the Harkonnen slave-fighting pits. No fancy diploma for him.
The school of hard knocks versus recognized diploma. A Swordmaster could serve as a Warmaster but you had to have attended the school on Ginaz to be called a Swordmaster.
Duncan Idaho did serve for a time as both Swordmaster and Warmaster for Paul Atreides.
A Swordmaster of sufficient level (10th) could beat Sardaukar. A Warmaster may or may not have been able to best a Sardaukar. Halleck might have been able to.
Sort of like the Specialist versus the Generalist. Although little to choose between the skills of Gurney and Duncan.
Sardaukar, Swordmasters, Warmasters and Fremen fighters are meat in the bare hands of Bene Gesserit adepts.
Sardaukar fight in threes back to back. Have shigawire garrottes entwined in their hair and maybe even a false toe containing comms device, explosives etc.
Sardaukar are fanatics and willingly use terror as a tactic. It is their fighting skills which keep the Corrinos in power. Not to be beaten until the Atreides combined Fremen ferocity with BG weirding ways of fighting.
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Hard_Rom
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http://www.lisashea.com/hobbies/dune/ppl/index.html
This lady has an interesting take on the book, '84 movie and miniseries. Opened my eyes to huge differences. Not so much to say on groups and tech but main characters she critiques well.
This lady has an interesting take on the book, '84 movie and miniseries. Opened my eyes to huge differences. Not so much to say on groups and tech but main characters she critiques well.
JawnKarTurr
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Posted sorry for the delay it wouldn't happen again....but I have career that keeps odd hours and has it's emergencies so I try my best.
Hard_Rom
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Once we get everyone in and the ball rolling, orderly posting won't be as important or if you know you might be away just let your character go off on a side plot thing or something. Or give permission for small use of character during emergency absences once we know how character will react
no biggy
What is this weapon you speak of?
Swords and knives of various sorts are the standard arms carried in the Duniverse. Projectile weapons are only used during large scale battles. Lasguns and shield possession may be capital crimes but other projectile weapons such as slow pellet stunners (low velocity stun projectiles, perhaps using an electrical charge to stun) and Maula pistols (spring fired poison dart guns, range 40 metres) are not carried as side arms on a daily basis.
There is a conflict in the description of slow-pellet stunners. During Duncan Idahos death fight, there is a description of an orange flash as a pellet hit his shield. But the Wiki describes it as a poison projectile thrower.
A rain of blue uniforms came over the cliff wall in front of him, falling in low-suspensor slowness. In the flashing instant, Hawat had time to see that they were Sardaukar, hard faces set in battle frenzy, that they were unshielded and each carried a knife in one hand, a stunner in the other. A thrown knife caught Hawat's Fremen companion in the throat, hurting him backward, twisting face down. Hawat had only time to draw his own knife before blackness of a stunner projectile felled him...
....
With his mother beside him, Paul leaped for the door, seeing Idaho blocking the passage, his blood-pitted eyes there visible through a shield blur, claw hands beyond him, arcs of steel chopping futilely at the shield. There was the orange fire-mouth of a stunner repelled by the shield. Idaho's blades were through it all, flick-flicking, red dripping from them.
In the glossary at the end of Dune, stunners are described as shooting "poison- or drug-tipped darts." However, in the two passages quoted above, it seems unlikely that either of these would result in an orange-tinged explosion. You might speculate that the projectiles carry an electrical charge.
Kindjals (short swords), slip-tips (pointy rapier type daggers) and bodkins (small throwing type knife that can be concealed up a sleeve) are the usual weapons.
Except in the Arrakis desert (shields drive worms mad) and the capital, personal shields have rendered projectile weapons ineffective. What we call a gun is an archaic ineffective weapon. Probably highly dangerous to have any projectile weapon if the Emperor's Sardaukar find on your person.
Hand to hand combat is the norm.
Perhaps we should allow shields on Kaitain and rely on the Emperor's security people and Spacing Guild to ensure a lasgun is not smuggled into the capital. That is how the God Emperor handled the lasgun/shield interaction. Ban lasguns not shields.
Shield fighting was a huge part of combat with it's own technique of fast on defence, slow on attack. Shields would repel an attack beyond a few centimetres per second speed. Swing a sword fast and it would glance off a personal body shield. Using your opponents movements to impale themselves on your knife was a good tactic.
no biggy
What is this weapon you speak of?
Swords and knives of various sorts are the standard arms carried in the Duniverse. Projectile weapons are only used during large scale battles. Lasguns and shield possession may be capital crimes but other projectile weapons such as slow pellet stunners (low velocity stun projectiles, perhaps using an electrical charge to stun) and Maula pistols (spring fired poison dart guns, range 40 metres) are not carried as side arms on a daily basis.
There is a conflict in the description of slow-pellet stunners. During Duncan Idahos death fight, there is a description of an orange flash as a pellet hit his shield. But the Wiki describes it as a poison projectile thrower.
A rain of blue uniforms came over the cliff wall in front of him, falling in low-suspensor slowness. In the flashing instant, Hawat had time to see that they were Sardaukar, hard faces set in battle frenzy, that they were unshielded and each carried a knife in one hand, a stunner in the other. A thrown knife caught Hawat's Fremen companion in the throat, hurting him backward, twisting face down. Hawat had only time to draw his own knife before blackness of a stunner projectile felled him...
....
With his mother beside him, Paul leaped for the door, seeing Idaho blocking the passage, his blood-pitted eyes there visible through a shield blur, claw hands beyond him, arcs of steel chopping futilely at the shield. There was the orange fire-mouth of a stunner repelled by the shield. Idaho's blades were through it all, flick-flicking, red dripping from them.
In the glossary at the end of Dune, stunners are described as shooting "poison- or drug-tipped darts." However, in the two passages quoted above, it seems unlikely that either of these would result in an orange-tinged explosion. You might speculate that the projectiles carry an electrical charge.
Kindjals (short swords), slip-tips (pointy rapier type daggers) and bodkins (small throwing type knife that can be concealed up a sleeve) are the usual weapons.
Except in the Arrakis desert (shields drive worms mad) and the capital, personal shields have rendered projectile weapons ineffective. What we call a gun is an archaic ineffective weapon. Probably highly dangerous to have any projectile weapon if the Emperor's Sardaukar find on your person.
Hand to hand combat is the norm.
Perhaps we should allow shields on Kaitain and rely on the Emperor's security people and Spacing Guild to ensure a lasgun is not smuggled into the capital. That is how the God Emperor handled the lasgun/shield interaction. Ban lasguns not shields.
Shield fighting was a huge part of combat with it's own technique of fast on defence, slow on attack. Shields would repel an attack beyond a few centimetres per second speed. Swing a sword fast and it would glance off a personal body shield. Using your opponents movements to impale themselves on your knife was a good tactic.
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Hard_Rom
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The Holtzman Shield is a potent literary device: it makes directed-energy weaponry impossible against any worthwhile opponent, and also proves traditional projectile-based firearms and missiles ineffective, adding to the feudal atmosphere, and enforces the usage of mêlée weaponry despite other more advanced technology.
With the widespread use of shields, anyone of even minimal importance wore a body shield to protect against criminals, assassins, and accidents. Such a practice made the use of projectile weapons and thrown blades virtually obsolete. The only effective combat method was the deft use and careful precision of a handheld dagger, if moved slowly enough. New styles of fencing and knife fighting were developed to take advantage of this one small vulnerability.
As one would be unable to breathe within a shield that did not permit atmospheric gases to penetrate it, man-portable shields had a relatively high penetration velocity, approximately six to ten centimeters per second. However, shields for ships and planetary installations could and often did have extremely low penetration velocities, as artificial life support technologies could be utilized while the shield was active.
I did not know the last bit...
House Shields were the choice of defense for many Great Houses. The name House does not come from its use by Great Houses, but by what it protected: the home of a Great House. Any palace or castle or any home to a House was protected by this shield.
The shield was a larger version of the defensive shield worn by a person and could cover large areas without becoming unstable, as a Pentashield would do. Because of its massive size, a House Shield couldn't be shorted-out by a Lasgun.
With the widespread use of shields, anyone of even minimal importance wore a body shield to protect against criminals, assassins, and accidents. Such a practice made the use of projectile weapons and thrown blades virtually obsolete. The only effective combat method was the deft use and careful precision of a handheld dagger, if moved slowly enough. New styles of fencing and knife fighting were developed to take advantage of this one small vulnerability.
As one would be unable to breathe within a shield that did not permit atmospheric gases to penetrate it, man-portable shields had a relatively high penetration velocity, approximately six to ten centimeters per second. However, shields for ships and planetary installations could and often did have extremely low penetration velocities, as artificial life support technologies could be utilized while the shield was active.
I did not know the last bit...
House Shields were the choice of defense for many Great Houses. The name House does not come from its use by Great Houses, but by what it protected: the home of a Great House. Any palace or castle or any home to a House was protected by this shield.
The shield was a larger version of the defensive shield worn by a person and could cover large areas without becoming unstable, as a Pentashield would do. Because of its massive size, a House Shield couldn't be shorted-out by a Lasgun.
Hard_Rom
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It would appear that projectile weapons were carried by House Troopers.
Embassies could have house shields and guards could have projectile weapons.
In the Age of Shield-fighting the infantry were swordmen, armed with blades, and, for support, dartguns or needle projectors.
This is outside of a discussion on what is canon or not.
I lean to the literary device which makes carrying fire arms obsolete. Just my opinion but doubt they are carried at court.
Common thieves and robbers would not have shields. So just gunning them down instead of engaging in hand to hand sounds right.
The Holtzman Shield is a potent literary device: it makes directed-energy weaponry impossible against any worthwhile opponent, and also proves traditional projectile-based firearms and missiles ineffective, adding to the feudal atmosphere, and enforces the usage of mêlée weaponry despite other more advanced technology.
But is just a literary device, no reason a sidearm could not be carried.
The House Trooper was the common houseguard soldier in the Imperium.Every Major House had it's own army, formally independent from the Emperor's own military forces.
Regular troop types included the common Infantry footman, armored squads, Technicians, personal guard and elite guard (or Pretorians) as well as shock troops and Support Troops. House Harkonnen also deployed specialized Hunters. In the Age of Shield-fighting the infantry were swordmen, armed with blades, and, for support, dartguns or needle projectors. Gunners operated armored groundcars, Cannons, Launchers and large heavy duty Lasguns.
Embassies could have house shields and guards could have projectile weapons.
In the Age of Shield-fighting the infantry were swordmen, armed with blades, and, for support, dartguns or needle projectors.
This is outside of a discussion on what is canon or not.
I lean to the literary device which makes carrying fire arms obsolete. Just my opinion but doubt they are carried at court.
Common thieves and robbers would not have shields. So just gunning them down instead of engaging in hand to hand sounds right.
The Holtzman Shield is a potent literary device: it makes directed-energy weaponry impossible against any worthwhile opponent, and also proves traditional projectile-based firearms and missiles ineffective, adding to the feudal atmosphere, and enforces the usage of mêlée weaponry despite other more advanced technology.
But is just a literary device, no reason a sidearm could not be carried.
The House Trooper was the common houseguard soldier in the Imperium.Every Major House had it's own army, formally independent from the Emperor's own military forces.
Regular troop types included the common Infantry footman, armored squads, Technicians, personal guard and elite guard (or Pretorians) as well as shock troops and Support Troops. House Harkonnen also deployed specialized Hunters. In the Age of Shield-fighting the infantry were swordmen, armed with blades, and, for support, dartguns or needle projectors. Gunners operated armored groundcars, Cannons, Launchers and large heavy duty Lasguns.
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JawnKarTurr
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Choose your weapon
Yes I understand a bit about how the Dune universe handles weapons. It's rather interesting. They've advanced to a point where personnel force fields are available so you have to look for low tech answers to get around everything. Makes for great space opera.
As to what Joab is carrying he has a stylish, but combat ready Gladius. The nasty short sword is razor sharp and perfect for close quarters combat and larger then most knives while not being as cumbersome as a sword in social situations. It appears as part of the uniform so one can easily blend in without bothering security.
Yes I understand a bit about how the Dune universe handles weapons. It's rather interesting. They've advanced to a point where personnel force fields are available so you have to look for low tech answers to get around everything. Makes for great space opera.
As to what Joab is carrying he has a stylish, but combat ready Gladius. The nasty short sword is razor sharp and perfect for close quarters combat and larger then most knives while not being as cumbersome as a sword in social situations. It appears as part of the uniform so one can easily blend in without bothering security.
Hard_Rom
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Ah! A sword. Okay. I was picturing some projectile weapon from the video games or something.
Not even sure if beyond at court there is a need to hide weapons. My guy wears his openly. With a slip-tip and bodkin up his sleeves. Both poisoned.
Almost like steam punk. No computers and some medieval tech.
Been off work sick for quite awhile. I have lots of time on my hands to just post and post away.
Not even sure if beyond at court there is a need to hide weapons. My guy wears his openly. With a slip-tip and bodkin up his sleeves. Both poisoned.
Almost like steam punk. No computers and some medieval tech.
Been off work sick for quite awhile. I have lots of time on my hands to just post and post away.
JawnKarTurr
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Well I believe they're a item for combat, but do people continue to wear them daily?
Hard_Rom
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Rich folk do I think. Never know when next assassination attempt will occur.
Baron Harkonnen wore his all the time turned on at low strength. It saved him when Leto used the poison tooth by slowing the interchange of gas through the shield barrier.
Worn yes, fits on a belt easily enough. But not turned on.
Considering storyline circumstances would be good idea. Countess is valuable to someone. You and I are not.
Baron Harkonnen wore his all the time turned on at low strength. It saved him when Leto used the poison tooth by slowing the interchange of gas through the shield barrier.
Worn yes, fits on a belt easily enough. But not turned on.
Considering storyline circumstances would be good idea. Countess is valuable to someone. You and I are not.
Aussie_Wolf
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Shields would be okay with me, but was there a way to detect who was wearing them and had them on? Obviously a good assassin would work his way around such a thing, (I am already thinking poisoned food, needle ring, or concealed pin of poison in their chair etc.) but they would certainly know if their target had activated their shield and at what strength it was.
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