One thing about the hurricane-disaster that really bugs me....

[Lucifer_Carroll]

And how many lawsuits actually came to fruition, how many companies actually got punished for obvious profiteering? I know here in California, we're still working on Enron and everyone and their mother already know they were guilty as sin. Capitalism, real capitalism, hasn't existed here since we decided that a really cool retro fad was the Gilded Age.

But I digress and ruin Snoop's thread.

Run along Commie Boy, back to Mother Russia and your hairy Stalin-esque lover and leave us freedom lovers to our apple pie and chocolate chip cookies.

 

[sophia jane]

Run along Commie Boy, back to Mother Russia and your hairy Stalin-esque lover and leave us freedom lovers to our apple pie and chocolate chip cookies.

I make excellent apple pie and chocolate chip cookies.

(just trying to lighten the mood, ignore me)

 

[Belegon]

I make excellent apple pie and chocolate chip cookies.

(just trying to lighten the mood, ignore me)

sweetie, you can distract me from the ugly old commie boy anytime you want...

I don't even mind you distracting me from LC (sorry LC, but she's cute and you know how I am...)

..and I can think of things in your kitchen I'd rather eat than cookies...

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I make excellent apple pie and chocolate chip cookies.

(just trying to lighten the mood, ignore me)

Oh no, you're not one to ignore. Though you may be preoccupied with Bel, so I'll watch over the cookies.

 

[LadyJeanne]

sweetie, you can distract me from the ugly old commie boy anytime you want...

I don't even mind you distracting me from LC (sorry LC, but she's cute and you know how I am...)

..and I can think of things in your kitchen I'd rather eat than cookies...

I keep sayin', I'LL take the cookies!

(and LC)

 

[sophia jane]

..and I can think of things in your kitchen I'd rather eat than cookies...

Ooooh, that turned me on.

I think LJ, LC, Bel and me sounds like a good time, but maybe not in the kitchen.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Not to jump into this, but is should be noted the two major pipelines that feed the east coast refined petroleum products come out of New Orleans and both have ceased operation.

Localized shortages are sure to occur as distributors deplete their reserves. Here in Ms. you can still get gas for 2.56 a gallon, the price were were paying pre-katrina. If you can find a station with gas that is. When they have it, they sell it for the pre hurricane prices, but it's very difficult to find gas anywhre in mississippi. According to several folks, it dosen't get better until you get to Birmingham Al going east.

They aren't gouging here, there just isn't enough to go around as people passing through both to help and to escape keep the stations with electricity empty.

 

[amicus]

Colleen Thomas...It is painful for me, truly, to see you struggle between the concepts of freedom and control.

There are surely inequities in a free market place, but to even consider a market place controlled by beaurocrats is to consider slavery.

If I owned a gasoline station, in a free market and paid X number of dollars and cents per gallon and a crisis occured and prices all around me rose to 2X dollars and cents, I would be tempted to follow suit; that is human nature.

But to doubt the efficacy of a free market place indicates to me that you need to restudy the basic concepts of individual human freedom and realize that trade, free trade between people, is an essential ingredient to human rights of all kinds.

If we are not free to exchange goods and services on our own terms, then no other freedoms are possible. A simple equasion and a self evident one, but one you must acknowledge if you truly respect human freedom.

amicus...

 

[velvetpie]

I'm not personally bitching about gas prices, but it IS something that affects people on a personal level rather than the mostly abstract level of a disaster hundreds or thousands of miles away.

You're correct that saving lives and dealing the destruction are more important things to talk about, but those are such daunting prospects that it's just easier to direct the anger and frustration at an easier target that is close to home.

I absolutely agree. There's no way that we're ignoring the human cost but this hits those of us that weren't directly involved with the hurricane hard.

 

[Boxlicker101]

There is no 'real' shortage of gasoline in the United States.

Prompted by network and cable news speculation that there 'might' be interruptions in supply due to the storm, people immediately, (in their own best interest) filled and topped off their tanks.

That created a momentary shortage in supply and as demand increased, so did price.

Simple economics and just a little knowledge of the supply system, but then, economics and reality are not a high points with Liberals.


amicus the inscrutable scrotum....

I realize there is no gasoline shortage in the US, especially not in California, which gets no fuel at all through the Gulf Coast. The oil companies, seeing an excuse to raise prices, did so immediately. The owners of service stations, of course, did the same. I am a strong believer in capitalism and believe there are many benefits that result from it, but there is a down side too. Price gouging, like what we have now is part of the negative.

 

[DVS]

The gas rates are going up in most areas, and a lot of that is because hurricane damaged oil refineries in the gulf. While they are down, prices go up. I don't see it as really legal, but it's supply and demand and until we stop needing so much oil for our SUVs, we will always be in this position.

The trouble is, when the refineries are back on line, I'd bet the gas prices won't go down as much as they've gone up. That is NOT supply and demand, but gouging the market for what it will bear.

Higher prices affect many things we consume, not just our gas. Plastic is made from petroleum and plastic is used almost everywhere. Asphalt is a petroleum product as is the synthetic rubber in tires. Paraffin wax comes from petroleum, as do fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, detergents, video tape, photographic film, furniture, packaging materials, surfboards, paints, and artificial fibers used in clothing and upholstery (yes, I googled that list).

So, not just gas prices are going up, but all of these products will go up with the price of oil, not to mention the price to transport these products around the world.

As for the gas prices going up in the western states (those that aren't supplied by the coastal pipeline), I'd consider that gouging the market, but I'm not an economist. The consumer in me thinks everybody is getting their pork where they see the chance to get it.

When everybody is gouging the market, it's not so easy to point the finger. Now, if you find two stations across the street from each other and one is considerably less than the other...

Human life and suffering will always more important than property. Anyone who thinks Americans are being selfish in the aftermath of this disaster need only remember how we are always willing to give, when the need is there.

Now, we do tend to complain when we see things that we can't do anything about, and I can see how it might look to those who don't know us as a people. But, I agree with Harold. When I see others who need help, and I can't physically help them, it hurts to think about it.

Sure, we can send money or supplies to the cause. I've already done that. But, I would much rather be somewhere I can do some good, to know I'm making a difference. I'm sure I'm not alone with these feelings. With such pent up angers, humans are more prone to complain about the little things that affect their lives, like prices going up and up. The big things are sometimes too difficult to deal with, emotionally.