Once agin, insurance is not about protecting you

[someoneyouknow]

Repeatedly, almost ad nauseum, I have stated insurance is a scam. All insurance. The companies are betting nothing will happen to you while you're betting something will. Now the truth is revealed.


Buckle up: ​Car insurance rates are set to soar

Are higher car insurance rates coming? Ask the residents of Georgia, where Allstate Property & Casualty Insurance has just raised some auto premiums by 58 percent.

The Good Hands People have claimed that's an extreme case, but it doesn't deny that nearly half its Georgia customers will pay an average of 25 percent more to drive their cars, a rate hike that left the state's insurance commissioner, Ralph Hudgens, so frustrated that he launched an investigation by an independent actuarial firm.

But since Georgia is a "file and use" state, this means all an automotive insurer has to do is file the rate hike with the state's insurance department, and it goes into effect, in this case on May 22.

Georgia's situation is far from unique, and it may be the "canary in the coal mine" as far as auto insurance rate hikes are concerned. April saw the biggest premium increase year-over-year since 2003, as prices rose 6 percent that month, according to Consumer Price Index monthly data.

They key paragraph:

Another factor is that auto insurers' profitability has been falling for a decade. Loss ratios for insurers have been rising for 10 years, according to the III's Hartwig. In flush times when interest rates are high, insurers can make this up from their vast investment portfolios. But the 2015 return on their net worth is likely close to zero -- or even negative.

Read more:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/buckle-up-car-insurance-rates-are-set-to-soar/

 

[Iceprincess12]

Of course insurance isn't about protecting us. A legal pyramid scheme.

 

[underguy1]

Zero interest rates and QE forcing long term yields down is the underlying problem. Along with a clueless political class that won't use expansionary fiscal policy to spur the economy on and provide some long term stimulus.

I'm no fan of insurance companies and I'm not saying that interest rates need to be lifted (they don't) but that's the reality they face.

The world has been hoodwinked by the rich and their tame neoclassical and Austrian school economists into believing that deficit spending is dangerous.

 

[srgreene]

Of course insurance isn't about protecting us. A legal pyramid scheme.

No, hardly a pyramid scheme. One wonders if you know what a pyramid scheme is (an "investment" where early investors are paid the the cash provided by later investors, who are fleeced).

Certainly insurance companies are profit making enterprises. But they do offer their customer's protection against the unexpected. They offer value, unlike a pyramid scheme, which is a sucker's game.

Now medical insurance in the USA is something else- it has ceased to be insurance in any meaningful sense. People today- forced by the government- pay to ensure against expected life events. This turns the legitimate use of insurance on its ear.

 

[Iceprincess12]

No, hardly a pyramid scheme. One wonders if you know what a pyramid scheme is (an "investment" where early investors are paid the the cash provided by later investors, who are fleeced).

Certainly insurance companies are profit making enterprises. But they do offer their customer's protection against the unexpected. They offer value, unlike a pyramid scheme, which is a sucker's game.

Now medical insurance in the USA is something else- it has ceased to be insurance in any meaningful sense. People today- forced by the government- pay to ensure against expected life events. This turns the legitimate use of insurance on its ear.

I smell a mormon...

 

[Hard_Rom]

Now medical insurance in the USA is something else- it has ceased to be insurance in any meaningful sense. People today- forced by the government- pay to ensure against expected life events. This turns the legitimate use of insurance on its ear.

Call it a tax then, problem solved.

 

[sr71plt]

I certainly consider insurance in any form (I don't get flood insurance as I live at the top of a ridge and have no basement or downhill slope toward the house) as protection against catastrophe replacement cost, so I'm not in tune with discussion otherwise here. Sounds to me like just not wanting to pay anything for your own protection because suddenly the government is requiring you to pay something into that for your medical needs rather than you getting a full ride on the rest of us.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Speaking as someone who had a medical emergency this past January that resulted in 5 days in the ICU and a total bill of over $300K I can say without a doubt that the insurance company's bet that nothing would happen to me was a loser for them.

Now some of you may just have an extra couple of hundred thousand lying around just in case, but the vast majority don't. I'm glad that the small amount I pay for that health insurance every week completley covered my hospital stay, minus $350 in combined co-pays.

 

[sr71plt]

Precisely.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Speaking as someone who had a medical emergency this past January that resulted in 5 days in the ICU and a total bill of over $300K I can say without a doubt that the insurance company's bet that nothing would happen to me was a loser for them.

Now some of you may just have an extra couple of hundred thousand lying around just in case, but the vast majority don't. I'm glad that the small amount I pay for that health insurance every week completley covered my hospital stay, minus $350 in combined co-pays.

My experience is that hospital bills get shrunk down significantly when you pay cash.

They only charge you 12k for the MRI and 500 bucks an aspirin because of some insurance/government fuckery that allows them to bill that insane shit.

Pull out bricks of 100's and that 12,000 dollar MRI is suddenly only 850 bucks.

It's like MAGIC!

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

My experience is that hospital bills get shrunk down significantly when you pay cash.

They only charge you 12k for the MRI and 500 bucks an aspirin because of some insurance/government fuckery that allows them to bill that insane shit.

Pull out bricks of 100's and that 12,000 dollar MRI is suddenly only 850 bucks.

It's like MAGIC!

Looking at the hospital bills, the amounts submitted to the insurance company for payment and actual "in full" payments accepted by the hospital and made by my insurance company the exact opposite is true.

Uninsured i would have been on the hook for $300K in hospital, surgical, and ICU bills. I could either try to work out a payment plan with the hospital, get a lawyer and try to fight the charges (which would end up costing me even more), sell one of my houses, or declare bankruptcy at that point. Having health insurance solved that issue completely. I paid a grand total of $350.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't really have any sympathy or time for people being dumb about insurance and appearing to just want to freeload off all those paying insurance.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Looking at the hospital bills, the amounts submitted to the insurance company for payment and actual "in full" payments accepted by the hospital and made by my insurance company the exact opposite is true.

Uninsured i would have been on the hook for $300K in hospital, surgical, and ICU bills. I could either try to work out a payment plan with the hospital, get a lawyer and try to fight the charges (which would end up costing me even more), sell one of my houses, or declare bankruptcy at that point. Having health insurance solved that issue completely. I paid a grand total of $350.

That maybe true, IDK what kinda insurance/hospital situtation you have.

But I know when I pay for a 400mg ibuprofen it cost me a whopping 12 cents.....when TriCare buys me one the fuckin thing is almost a thousand bucks.

When I pay for a complicated knee surgery for my old man it's 67 grand....when Tricare buys me a simple ass knee surgery that's damn near outpatient? 1. 2 MILLION dollars LOL

I don't really have any sympathy or time for people being dumb about insurance and appearing to just want to freeload off all those paying insurance.

Why? That's the American way.....

Rat fucking this piece of shit country and all the dumb mother fuckers in it for all the money I can is the American dream. Exporting as much of it so that I can enjoy it even more makes me an all star!

 

[TheLM]

amount billed has little to do with actual price or what the facility is actually payed

Those are just silly random numbers

Most facilities will let you pay the Medicare rate of you take a cash option. That means they only bill you for what they could hope to receive from CMS.

 

[sr71plt]

amount billed has little to do with actual price or what the facility is actually payed

Those are just silly random numbers

Most facilities will let you pay the Medicare rate of you take a cash option. That means they only bill you for what they could hope to receive from CMS.

Which would be what out of your pocket in contrast to if you had insurance to cover it? Think real hard now; I have faith you can do that sort of math.

 

[someoneyouknow]

I certainly consider insurance in any form (I don't get flood insurance as I live at the top of a ridge and have no basement or downhill slope toward the house) as protection against catastrophe replacement cost, so I'm not in tune with discussion otherwise here. Sounds to me like just not wanting to pay anything for your own protection because suddenly the government is requiring you to pay something into that for your medical needs rather than you getting a full ride on the rest of us.

If I can pay my own bills how is it getting a full ride on everyone else? Isn't that the epitome of self-sufficiency and self-reliance? Not depending on others to do something for you?

 

[sr71plt]

If I can pay my own bills how is it getting a full ride on everyone else? Isn't that the epitome of self-sufficiency and self-reliance? Not depending on others to do something for you?

Oh, I didn't realize you were a millionaire. In that case . . . (Of course you realize there are very few people who could cover the bill for surgery and a week in the hospital all on their own, I'm sure.) For those who can't/don't, part of their bill tends to wind up in my bills.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Oh, I didn't realize you were a millionaire. In that case . . . (Of course you realize there are very few people who could cover the bill for surgery and a week in the hospital all on their own, I'm sure.) For those who can't/don't, part of their bill tends to wind up in my bills.

Outstanding.....I can't wait to stiff the hospital next time I get fucked up.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Which would be what out of your pocket in contrast to if you had insurance to cover it? Think real hard now; I have faith you can do that sort of math.

I'm pretty sure it would be a shit-ton more than the $350 I had to pay in co=pays even at the Medicare rate.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Oh, I didn't realize you were a millionaire. In that case . . . (Of course you realize there are very few people who could cover the bill for surgery and a week in the hospital all on their own, I'm sure.) For those who can't/don't, part of their bill tends to wind up in my bills.

I guess it never occurs to you, or anyone, that maybe I and millions of people like me take care of ourselves to avoid doctor and hospital visits. That we have weighed the risks and rewards and have found not having insurance is better for us than being forced to hand over our money to a private company for no reason.

As to paying other people's bills, I don't see you wanting to pay less for someone else's bills by forcing them to live better lives, such as not doing drugs, not smoking, not drinking excessively, not being obese and so on.

Which then leads to, if the claim is that it is none of anyone else's business that people do any of the above, then the same should apply to me since obviously you don't have a problem with them deliberately doing things which are known to cause health issues. If you're so concerned about paying someone else's bills then perhaps forcing people to hand over their money isn't the solution but rather, forcing people to live healthier lives.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Hospital bills? What are they? My heart attacks and surgery cost me zero out of pocket. Bills? Around here, banks demand home owners insurance. No insurance, no mortgage. They are willing to add it on and include in your payments though.

 

[sr71plt]

I guess it never occurs to you, or anyone, that maybe I and millions of people like me take care of ourselves to avoid doctor and hospital visits. That we have weighed the risks and rewards and have found not having insurance is better for us than being forced to hand over our money to a private company for no reason.

It occurs to me that you have a screw loose if you don't realize that you (or someone relying on you for their financial support) could be hit with a catastrophic illness or accident at any moment of time--that you have no guarantee of protection from catastrophic illness no matter what preventive health measures you take. I think that someday you're going to wake up and have that smug little look wiped off your face, and when you do you're going to be hoping that someone else helps pay for the big mistake you made. You're just a blind freeloader in training. What you describe is called high-stakes gambling, not taking care of your needs.

And sure it's my business. If you don't take care of your needs more than by high-stakes, high-risk gambling, when you find out you've just been fooling yourself and the choice is letting you die or finding some other way to pay for your health needs, it's my insurance premiums and my tax dollars that are going to be called on to make up for your selfish foolishness.

 

[BotanyBoy]

And sure it's my business. If you don't take care of your needs more than by high-stakes, high-risk gambling, when you find out you've just been fooling yourself and the choice is letting you die or finding some other way to pay for your health needs, it's my insurance premiums and my tax dollars that are going to be called on to make up for your selfish foolishness.

Awwwwwwww look at the neoLib cry about not forcing other people to enrich his plutocratic overlords.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Without things like insurance and welfare, a bad accident could cripple you, physically and moneywise. With no prospect of ever getting out of the hole again. A slip or misstep by you or even another and you could be on the street begging.