On Switches...Please comment.

[SwitchyBi]

Switches
For us “there is no such thing as either or… only both and”( Meister Eckhart). In Jungian psychology the term “conjunctium oppositorum” means the union of opposites, the sacred marriage within self of : male and female, shadow and light, logic and intuition, ying and yang, lingam and yoni, dominance and submission. Unless you uncover and explore the opposites within your own soul you tend to see others with an “Us, Them” set of eyes. Others become aliens or “Its” (Martin Buber), completely foreign to our experiences. The process of finding self is a peeling of the onion of opposites, until we are at one with all. Some opposites are harder for each individual to reconcile than others. I find myself pulled to male and female, dominant and submissive. I am bisexual and a switch.

Some people in the BDSM community look askance at switches. Then, you are truly neither they state and are only a dabbler in the game of power exchange. Bisexuality confronts the same attitude with some in the gay community. I believe both are instances of “Western dualism” or the “Us and Them” game; whereby, there must be a correct way to walk, talk, look, sound, breath. Usually interpreted as my way.

Thank God that there are complete Doms and complete subs. I have certainly enjoyed both and do not advocate that they change one iota. It is there own incarnation. But, I would like to air the topic of switches with members of this community.

For me, I enjoy and explore both aspects, both are equally strong in me. I cannot just flip from one to the other in seconds but I can sink down and conjure up either a powerful Dom or a pliant submissive. I hope some of your will comment on this topic. Negatively or positively for…There is no either or, only both and.

SwitchyBi

 

[Vixandra]

Switches rock.
A lot of what I've learned of BDSM has come from interaction with switches and we we've got a few great ones here on the BDSM Talk and Cafe.


In any given group there will be people who cannot accept those that do not fit in to a box. Be it male/female (tg), top/bottom (switch), straight/gay (bisexual), it doesn't matter.
If someone wants to close off thier world that much, there's little anyone else can do to "help" them. Let them do it- more fun for the rest of us who don't.

 

[SwitchyBi]

Thank you Vixandra seems a nice combination of a Vixen and a Cassandra figure. How intriguing. A seer and a temptress rolled into one powerful package.

.....back to what you said about switches....It's like in many ancient cultures the hermaphrodite was automatically made a shaman, because they saw the world from both sides....a foot in both worlds. Thanks.

SwitchyBi

 

[Raine D8]

Switches
For us “there is no such thing as either or… only both and”( Meister Eckhart). In Jungian psychology the term “conjunctium oppositorum” means the union of opposites, the sacred marriage within self of : male and female, shadow and light, logic and intuition, ying and yang, lingam and yoni, dominance and submission. Unless you uncover and explore the opposites within your own soul you tend to see others with an “Us, Them” set of eyes. Others become aliens or “Its” (Martin Buber), completely foreign to our experiences. The process of finding self is a peeling of the onion of opposites, until we are at one with all. Some opposites are harder for each individual to reconcile than others. I find myself pulled to male and female, dominant and submissive. I am bisexual and a switch.

Some people in the BDSM community look askance at switches. Then, you are truly neither they state and are only a dabbler in the game of power exchange. Bisexuality confronts the same attitude with some in the gay community. I believe both are instances of “Western dualism” or the “Us and Them” game; whereby, there must be a correct way to walk, talk, look, sound, breath. Usually interpreted as my way.

Thank God that there are complete Doms and complete subs. I have certainly enjoyed both and do not advocate that they change one iota. It is there own incarnation. But, I would like to air the topic of switches with members of this community.

For me, I enjoy and explore both aspects, both are equally strong in me. I cannot just flip from one to the other in seconds but I can sink down and conjure up either a powerful Dom or a pliant submissive. I hope some of your will comment on this topic. Negatively or positively for…There is no either or, only both and.

SwitchyBi

I am beside myself with joy that someone has actually used Jungian theory to define anything. I have often believed that feminists should have taken a Jungian, rather than Freudien route to assert their discourse. Still, you seem to be professing a more Buddhist thought than a Jungian one (although I completely understand the union of anima and animus) in regards to switching and bisexuality, but I'd love to know more.

 

[Vixandra]

Thank you Vixandra seems a nice combination of a Vixen and a Cassandra figure. How intriguing. A seer and a temptress rolled into one powerful package.

.....back to what you said about switches....It's like in many ancient cultures the hermaphrodite was automatically made a shaman, because they saw the world from both sides....a foot in both worlds. Thanks.

SwitchyBi

Actually the name's from a love of wolves and foxes, Vixan and I love the name Alexandra. Vixandra just evolved from those too.


Instersting shaman referance, haven't seen that one before in relation to the spiffyness of switches.

 

[SwitchyBi]

I am beside myself with joy that someone has actually used Jungian theory to define anything. I have often believed that feminists should have taken a Jungian, rather than Freudien route to assert their discourse. Still, you seem to be professing a more Buddhist thought than a Jungian one (although I completely understand the union of anima and animus) in regards to switching and bisexuality, but I'd love to know more.

Hi Raine D8
I find, at least in my mind, that it is easy to meld Jung, Oriental philosophy, and comparative mythology into a combined process of individuation. The 'heiros gamos' or sacred marriage that Jung delves into in his tomes on "Alchemy" underscore this connection. I agree with you that feminism could amass a wealth of support using Jung as opposed to Freud.

Alas, if only Jung could write as well as Freud we would now know the steps to individuation as readily as we spout the Oedipal complex. Hermes, and the hermaphrodite become a central symbol in the quest for the 'elixir of life' in Jungs major work "On Alchemy". He makes all the connections between Eastern and Western Pilospphy which Joseph Campbell traces in his work.

As the hermaphrodite embodies the symbol of the union of opposites physically, I beleive that the bisexual represents it spiritually. This is a difficult topic to rattle off in a few succinct paragraphs but. I gave it a shot. Perhaps we could set up a thread and banter back and forth with and include other interested parties. A huge topic. No?

I was delighted to hear from you. In my attempt at brevity, I hope I didn't come across as a 'preachy' ass hole.


Switchy

 

[SwitchyBi]

Actually the name's from a love of wolves and foxes, Vixan and I love the name Alexandra. Vixandra just evolved from those too.


Instersting shaman referance, haven't seen that one before in relation to the spiffyness of switches.

The name sounds exotic to say the least. There is also a strong relationship between the shaman and the wolf as you probably know, the Shamen of the Steppes travelled as wolves. Interesting. Thanks for your response.

Switchy

 

[SwitchyBi]

Everybody

I also believe that like introversion and extroversion everybody has a little of both. Everybody is a switch to some degreee. And everybody is bi to some degree...
What do you think?

 

[misshum]

I agree.

While I am for the most part a Dom, there have been times (with the right person) I have been the sub....and loved every minute of it!

There is something to be said for both positions and you can derive the same erotic pleasures from both.

While I am controling by nature, given my professional career and the stress involved, I have found it pleasurable to release that control to someone else in the bedroom....

But, again, I still prefer being a Dom.

 

[SwitchyBi]

While I am for the most part a Dom, there have been times (with the right person) I have been the sub....and loved every minute of it!

There is something to be said for both positions and you can derive the same erotic pleasures from both.

While I am controling by nature, given my professional career and the stress involved, I have found it pleasurable to release that control to someone else in the bedroom....

But, again, I still prefer being a Dom.

Precisely, it is erotic to strip. And, unveiling the protective layers of the self before another is more intimate, more arousing than taking off your clothing.

You are a Dom by nature but it is intriguing to reveal the sub who resides in the shadowy recesses. You make an excellent point about the sense of release involved. What makes anything sexually arousing but showing another what you generally keep private. Therefore, the more personal the revelation....the more sexual the experience.

Thanks misshum

 

[chauderlos]

Switches rock.
In any given group there will be people who cannot accept those that do not fit in to a box.

Ditto.
Even if people around here (I mean Lit. as a whole, and the BDSM Forum/café more precisely) are more open minded than the average Joe/Jane Doe, there still is a tendency to tag people.
But the more I think about BDSM as a way of living (OK, a lifestyle, you said it, not I), the more I believe, even if I'm not able to explain/express it clearly, that there is a 'Third way' between beeing a Dom or a sub, and the term 'switch' cannot encompass the whole of what I wish I could put in its meaning.

 

[neonflux]

Thank you for bringing such intelligence to the discussion...

While not "in the life," I absolutely agree. I tend to be more sub by nature but find that by moving out of that and taking on a more dominant role discover new depths within - a sort of rounding or expansion of personhood - and a greater connection to and compassion for others as well...

Switches
For us “there is no such thing as either or… only both and”( Meister Eckhart). In Jungian psychology the term “conjunctium oppositorum” means the union of opposites, the sacred marriage within self of : male and female, shadow and light, logic and intuition, ying and yang, lingam and yoni, dominance and submission. Unless you uncover and explore the opposites within your own soul you tend to see others with an “Us, Them” set of eyes. Others become aliens or “Its” (Martin Buber), completely foreign to our experiences. The process of finding self is a peeling of the onion of opposites, until we are at one with all. Some opposites are harder for each individual to reconcile than others. I find myself pulled to male and female, dominant and submissive. I am bisexual and a switch.

Some people in the BDSM community look askance at switches. Then, you are truly neither they state and are only a dabbler in the game of power exchange. Bisexuality confronts the same attitude with some in the gay community. I believe both are instances of “Western dualism” or the “Us and Them” game; whereby, there must be a correct way to walk, talk, look, sound, breath. Usually interpreted as my way.

Thank God that there are complete Doms and complete subs. I have certainly enjoyed both and do not advocate that they change one iota. It is there own incarnation. But, I would like to air the topic of switches with members of this community.

For me, I enjoy and explore both aspects, both are equally strong in me. I cannot just flip from one to the other in seconds but I can sink down and conjure up either a powerful Dom or a pliant submissive. I hope some of your will comment on this topic. Negatively or positively for…There is no either or, only both and.

SwitchyBi

 

[SwitchyBi]

Ditto.
Even if people around here (I mean Lit. as a whole, and the BDSM Forum/café more precisely) are more open minded than the average Joe/Jane Doe, there still is a tendency to tag people.
But the more I think about BDSM as a way of living (OK, a lifestyle, you said it, not I), the more I believe, even if I'm not able to explain/express it clearly, that there is a 'Third way' between beeing a Dom or a sub, and the term 'switch' cannot encompass the whole of what I wish I could put in its meaning.

How true. The ability to open the darkened door of 'power' and 'power exchanges' to turn it around, to play with it, to immerse oneself in it, to tax one's own boundaries. Then, you are gazing at the soul of BDSM's 'shared desires'. If you stare at it relentlessly then you have to turn over all the stones.

The woeful inadequacy of words to express the ineffable. Thank you for your insights chaudrelos. Your pic, your quote and your comments suggest the shadowed corridors of sensuality.

Thanks

 

[SwitchyBi]

While not "in the life," I absolutely agree. I tend to be more sub by nature but find that by moving out of that and taking on a more dominant role discover new depths within - a sort of rounding or expansion of personhood - and a greater connection to and compassion for others as well...

It is nice to hear from a poet. The process of dredging images from the well of desire is essential to poetry and eroticism is it not? How can a woman read King Lear... She is not male, never a king, far from being a father? Her soul must contain the male, the king, the father....they are not alien to her.

How can a man love a woman? You cannot love that which is completely other. The turns, alleyways, corners of the mind hide aspects of self which we have to explore on our way to finding our true self, or on our way to finding love.

Connection and compassion all call for exploration of these aspects of self as you say. Thanks neonflux.
I do admire your poetry.
Thanks for that too.

 

[chauderlos]

... , you are gazing at the soul of BDSM's 'shared desires'. If you stare at it relentlessly then you have to turn over all the stones.

Speaking of gazing...

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
-- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche:
Beyond Good and Evil (IV:146).

(I'm not that much into all this beyond-good-and-evil, superhuman stuff, but I think the quote could add some mind-salt to the quest many share around here.)

 

[SwitchyBi]

Speaking of gazing...

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
-- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche:
Beyond Good and Evil (IV:146).

(I'm not that much into all this beyond-good-and-evil, superhuman stuff, but I think the quote could add some mind-salt to the quest many share around here.)

Very profound chauderlos. Enter into the belly of the whale, in finding and facing the monster within you find yourself. It is a dangerous pursuit, is it not. Facing the shadow brings terrors that can be soul destroying. I believe that the darkness inherent in BDSM is a reflection of that shadow world. Vampires, Gogons, Wolves and Vipers abound..... "Surrender all hope ye who enter here"...most people cannot face the abyss which Nietzsche portrays...Some people are inexhorably drawn to it....Redemption and damnation both found in the same place...

Thank you

 

[Netzach]

I was very into the switch/bi/fluid aspects of myself for a while, but now I find that I walk through the world as a Dominant, though the behaviors may or may not have changed completely.

When I give up power, if I choose to do that, it's still very much from that position of agency and I still do it for basically selfish reasons. I can't really explain the difference, but it's there.

 

[13abovethenight]

When we strated out it was with me as Dom, or Top-or whatever term you'd prefer to use. However as our play has progressed we've managed to find varying amounts of pleasure from switching these roles.

We recently, less than a month ago, purchased a strap on for her. Although there were some difficulties, mostly based on not having enough knowledge or experience, we enjoyed it very much.

It's hard for me to let go and let her take control, but it has been a rewarding experience so far and I expect for us to continue on down this road, changing places as it becomes pleasureable or conveinent.

 

[Shankara20]

"I look like a white middle-age male, but am a bisexual ambidextrous multiracial agnostic crossdressing moderate temperate kinky switch (more or less) "

This was a part of my sig for some time. I love being bisexual - but I love being a switch even more.

I must run to a meeting but I want to add more later.

 

[SwitchyBi]

I was very into the switch/bi/fluid aspects of myself for a while, but now I find that I walk through the world as a Dominant, though the behaviors may or may not have changed completely.

When I give up power, if I choose to do that, it's still very much from that position of agency and I still do it for basically selfish reasons. I can't really explain the difference, but it's there.

I understand what you are saying and that is an interesting insight. The dominant ALLOWING their sub to emerge but still having a sense of control eevn over that. Is that the ultimate in power? It reminds me of an excellent teacher who can let the class go because they have the power to pull them back whenever. The teachers with shaky control dare not open up. Thank you Netzach. I'll have to roll this ball bearing around for a while...
Switchy

 

[SwitchyBi]

When we strated out it was with me as Dom, or Top-or whatever term you'd prefer to use. However as our play has progressed we've managed to find varying amounts of pleasure from switching these roles.

We recently, less than a month ago, purchased a strap on for her. Although there were some difficulties, mostly based on not having enough knowledge or experience, we enjoyed it very much.

It's hard for me to let go and let her take control, but it has been a rewarding experience so far and I expect for us to continue on down this road, changing places as it becomes pleasureable or conveinent.

I have read that true friendship allows power interplay. You can call your good friend an old clump of dirt and they laugh. You exchange power games like a tennis ball at Wimbledon.

I wonder if sexual intimacy is not the same thing. I beleive you and yours are on a road filled with delights and treasures. Journey on '13'...journey on..
Switchy

 

[SwitchyBi]

"I look like a white middle-age male, but am a bisexual ambidextrous multiracial agnostic crossdressing moderate temperate kinky switch (more or less) "

This was a part of my sig for some time. I love being bisexual - but I love being a switch even more.

I must run to a meeting but I want to add more later.

You sound like a treat. Shankara: the Hindu phiosopher who preached that all pluralities are illusion...All is one..All is Brahma....You have united all opposites stated on this page..."YOU HAVE CHOSEN YOUR NAME WISELY MY SON"

I love the imagery in your post a string of "conjunctii" You must be alot of fun..Thanks for your comments
Switchy

 

[Shankara20]

You sound like a treat. Shankara: the Hindu phiosopher who preached that all pluralities are illusion...All is one..All is Brahma....You have united all opposites stated on this page..."YOU HAVE CHOSEN YOUR NAME WISELY MY SON"

I love the imagery in your post a string of "conjunctii" You must be alot of fun..Thanks for your comments
Switchy

My dear Switchy - it is not often that someone point to the source of my name. Very well done. Those that knew Shankara started often that he was the source of bliss - if only that were true about me.
I will note that the source of bliss for a bottom is the Top - so also the source of bliss for the Top is the bottom. Many fail to notice that the Top is being in service to the bottom. So who is truely giving and who is truely receiving? - Both

 

[SwitchyBi]

My dear Switchy - it is not often that someone point to the source of my name. Very well done. Those that knew Shankara started often that he was the source of bliss - if only that were true about me.
I will note that the source of bliss for a bottom is the Top - so also the source of bliss for the Top is the bottom. Many fail to notice that the Top is being in service to the bottom. So who is truely giving and who is truely receiving? - Both

The one who veils his wisdom in wit..brings joy to all. To those who do not understand: a laugh. To those who understand: an insight into depth.

The bottom is on top always. The only way to state a real truth is in paradox.

Or is a paradox just two surgeons in the same office?

Love your cartoons.

Switchy

 

[chauderlos]

Your pic, your quote and your comments suggest the shadowed corridors of sensuality.

Err, thank you, but the pic is wholly un-politically correct, the quote ain't mine ans my comments are .... what they are...

Nevertheless, thank you for the appraisal...